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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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From my perspective I absolutely think that Kyubey will just tell her everything about our powers if asked so there's no downside to just telling her ourselves and getting some free trust.
 
I did not expect a minor bit of sharing information with this many escape clauses (only if our team agrees, only if Yuki agrees) to be this controversial.

Sharing basic power descriptions is hardly a display of unconditional trust, especially as Yuki would be sharing roughly equivalent details with us in turn.

And if you think we need to build up her level of trust first... exchanging information like this is exactly how trust is built! It's not like this shit is classified, either - there's a number of sources she could use to learn our team's broad strokes powersets, up to and including timestop.

[x] Contact your team.
-[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss? No rush.
-[x] Disclose powersets? Now/in person? Be considerate of Oriko/Homura.
-[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
-[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.

[x] Spar: Agree.
-[x] Clarify appropriate force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
-[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
-[x] Otherwise, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.

[X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
-[X] Likely attackers?
--[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
-[X] What other groups are in the area?
-[X] Exchange basic power descriptions? (If team agrees.)
-[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative/undeveloped groupchat consensus, break to voting.

[X] Payment:
-[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
-[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
-[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi transport.
--[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.

I'm not budging on this. If our team is okay with it, and Yuki agrees to the exchange, I expect this to be purely beneficial for us.
 
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-[X] Exchange basic power descriptions? (If team agrees.)
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Perhaps word it as "[] Ask friends: What should I say about powersets?"

This gives Homura and Oriko the out of not sharing anything they don't want to without giving Homura a "no", while also giving them TOTAL control over what we say about them. It doesn't pressure Homura to agree with anything she might not want to, nor does it gamble with her trust.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Perhaps word it as "[] Ask friends: What should I say about powersets?"

This gives Homura and Oriko the out of not sharing anything they don't want to without giving Homura a "no", while also giving them TOTAL control over what we say about them. It doesn't pressure Homura to agree with anything she might not want to, nor does it gamble with her trust.
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Hmm. I intended for brinapilot and "be considerate" to handle phrasing, but I can see how my wording might be too blunt, and that is a good way of approaching it.

[x] Contact your team.
-[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss? No rush.
-[x] Exchange powerset descriptions? When? Which info, if yes? Respect Homura/Oriko.
-[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
-[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.

[x] Spar: Agree.
-[x] Clarify appropriate force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
-[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
-[x] Otherwise, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.

[X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
-[X] Likely attackers?
--[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
-[X] What other groups are in the area?
-[X] Exchange basic power descriptions? (If team agrees.)
-[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative/undeveloped groupchat consensus, break to voting.

[X] Payment:
-[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
-[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
-[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi transport.
--[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.

200 words.
 
Torgamous said:
It's not. If asking was actually the zero-cost action you're modeling it as I'd be totally okay with it. This has been explained at length.
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The social cost with Homura, especially with the latest revision, I feel is quite small. I don't see any real costs in practical terms in exchanging the information either - it's nothing that Yuki can't aquire through other means, but sharing it ourselves is a show of trust conducive to building a better working relationship.

Points have been made at length, but I haven't found them convincing. Let me put it another way: If Homura and Oriko were specifically excluded from the discussion, leaving Mami, Sabrina, Sayaka, and Kirika as the ones who's powers are being discussed, would there still be an issue?
 
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I just feel that there's no point to sharing power information at this moment. Yuki proposed the alliance even without knowing what the rest of our team can do. So if the alliance happens and we've known her for more than 5 minutes then we could talk about powers. Although I feel that everyone should get to decide themselves if they want to share what they can do.
 
The mystery threat that Fukushima wants a defense pact against: I'm betting it's Feathers. They've got some sort of diviner, probably not a real precog, and they know what's coming. It's a bit surprising that Feathers would be such a wide-reaching threat -- I had imagined it as Mitakihara specific -- but that's my prediction.
 
Redshirt Army said:
If Homura and Oriko were specifically excluded from the discussion, leaving Mami, Sabrina, Sayaka, and Kirika as the ones who's powers are being discussed, would there still be an issue?
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Fukushima has already seen Mami, Sabrina and Kirika demonstrate their powers up close and personal, and if we actually open up relations with them then Sayaka will probably want to ask to copy their powers, so keeping those quiet is probably a lost cause.

Keep in mind that we literally just met this girl and haven't even so much as shaken hands on an agreement yet, and she's still being plenty coy with us about her own capabilities. It wouldn't hurt to slow your roll a little bit here.
 
The Narrator said:
Fukushima has already seen Mami, Sabrina and Kirika demonstrate their powers up close and personal, and if we actually open up relations with them then Sayaka will probably want to ask to copy their powers, so keeping those quiet is probably a lost cause.

Keep in mind that we literally just met this girl and haven't even so much as shaken hands on an agreement yet, and she's still being plenty coy with us about her own capabilities. It wouldn't hurt to slow your roll a little bit here.
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Right, which is why this is an exchange of information instead of just telling her our team's capabilities. If she keeps playing coy, so do we.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that Yuki might propose a more direct rundown of what powers we're bringing to the table before we finalize an agreement, even if we don't bring it up, either.

Our ability to assist in conflicts is the primary "product" we're trading, after all, and asking some questions about what exactly you're buying is a pretty basic part of dealmaking. :|
 
Redshirt Army said:
It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that Yuki might propose a more direct rundown of what powers we're bringing to the table before we finalize an agreement, even if we don't bring it up, either.
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Then she'd better be sharing some information in return. Like what exactly it is that has Japan's premier meguca mercenary group so scared that they're suddenly desperate for allies.

Yuki is the one who suddenly proposed a mutual defense pact. She's the one trying to make a sale. We don't need to argue up from the sticker price. Let her convince us.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Perhaps word it as "[] Ask friends: What should I say about powersets?"

This gives Homura and Oriko the out of not sharing anything they don't want to without giving Homura a "no", while also giving them TOTAL control over what we say about them. It doesn't pressure Homura to agree with anything she might not want to, nor does it gamble with her trust.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If I was Homura, though, I'd answer with tell them I have an unlimted arsenal I can pull out of my shield soul and the ability to enhance my muscles to react quicker via magical reinforcement, nothing about time unless Kyuubey tells them about it.

Edit: Actually scratch telling them where the weapons are stored.
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Feb 28, 2018 at 10:49 AM, finished with 133441 posts and 25 votes.
  • [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss? No rush.
    -[x] Exchange powerset descriptions? When? Which info, if yes? Respect Homura/Oriko.
    -[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Otherwise, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Likely attackers?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Exchange basic power descriptions? (If team agrees.)
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative/undeveloped groupchat consensus, break to voting.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi transport.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
    [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
    -[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Who's likely to attack?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative groupchat consensus, break to voting.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
    [x] Spar
    - [x] Agree
    -- [x] Rules of nature engagement
    --- [x] Go all out (barring gem shots)
    [x] Spar
    -[X] You will be sandbagging, to a degree. You're not here to kill her or blow shit up.
    --[X] If she inquires about this, demonstrate Prima Luce.
    --[X] Don't even harm her directly. Anything you can do that will really hurt her, you can do and pull at the last second. Prima Luce would be overly hostile.
    ---[X] Other than that, pull no punches.
    [X] Ping Homura about mutual defense pact and that they're agreeing to Walpurgis as part of it.
    [x] Don't contact your team yet.
    -[x] An extended discussion in person will be better than than trying to brief them remotely.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force/escalation/collateral. Despite free cleansing, you wouldn't want to destroy anything too valuable.
    --[x] But goad Yuki, "Give me the word to cut loose and I'll show you what I can really do."
    -[x] Go all out barring gem shots (within agreed guidelines).
    --[x] Combat-density fog, Sabrina in a sphere of grief for armor surrounded by decoy shells, fill volume with high-intensity light and sounds, grief constructs materializing out of the air to restrain and attack
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Let Yuki know you'll be conferring with Tomoe Mami.
    -[X] What attackers does she anticipate?
    --[X] You're out to help all Magical Girls. You will defend Fukushima if needed, but given the option would prefer to make peace with hostiles, either after fighting or before it starts.
    -[X] You'll be in touch later after thinking it over.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Formally agree, then provide payment (including Clear Seed).
    [X] Vote in abbeyance, as appropriate.
    [X]Agree to the Spar
    -[X] Establish rules, unless the intention is to level the area of course. Rules should err on avoiding collateral damage.
    -[X] Inside the agree upon rules don't hold back
    -[X] Tell Homura or Mami your about to spar in case its a trap or something.
    [X] Defense Pact - Your Interested
    -[X] Clarify what enemies she expects
    -[X] Point out you can't make the deal here, thats Mami's call really
    [X] Prison Contract Deal
    -[X] Agree to provide the anti-magic
    -[X] Also offer cash haggle but be generous. We're trying to start off a good business relationship here.
    - [X] Suggest the defense pact can be finalized when she comes to Mitakihara to get the anti-magic items
    --[X] Get Kirika to make the anti-magic items to not work on you as well - if it can be done discreetly.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Explain details,
    [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
    --[x] You'll wait if there's no fast consensus.
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Who's likely to attack?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no groupchat consensus, get back to her tomorrow.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for Mami tourism, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
Click to expand...
 
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The Narrator said:
Then she'd better be sharing some information in return. Like what exactly it is that has Japan's premier meguca mercenary group so scared that they're suddenly desperate for allies.

Yuki is the one who suddenly proposed a mutual defense pact. She's the one trying to make a sale. We don't need to argue up from the sticker price. Let her convince us.
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Getting as close as possible to the girl with outright grief cleansing abilities is sufficient reason to try for more permanent relations in itself.

We should absolutely ask what threats they face of course but I wouldn't assume they're facing some big threat.
 
Firnagzen said:
Update'll be tomorrow, I'm afraid.

On the upside, it's at 3.8k words and I haven't finished the spar yet, so...
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The Narrator said:
Then she'd better be sharing some information in return. Like what exactly it is that has Japan's premier meguca mercenary group so scared that they're suddenly desperate for allies.

Yuki is the one who suddenly proposed a mutual defense pact. She's the one trying to make a sale. We don't need to argue up from the sticker price. Let her convince us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be honest, allying yourself with Mitakihara is it's own reward. Yuki has the savvy to know that we're the meguca equivalent of the atomic bomb, and, once released, the genie cannot be forced back into the bottle.

In actuality, we're more something to the effect of the meguca equivalent of the entire US nuclear arsenal, if the entire US nuclear arsenal were a questionably sane teenage lesbian with an Emiya complex. Yuki just needs to see if we live up to the hype.
 
I'm sure that if we really wanted to, we could reduce the entire Solar System to so much as interstellar dust.

But is Yuki going to be able to figure that out? If was in her position, with no knowledge of Sabrina besides what my teammates have told me and rumors, I'd place her power output somewhere along the lines of a single nuke.

In reality, Sabrina can make the Tsar Bomba look like a firecracker, one of those tiny handheld ones made of paper and gunpowder. I doubt we'd actually do it, but still.
 
Votes are tied.
Adhoc vote count started by Redshirt Army on Feb 28, 2018 at 11:46 AM, finished with 133445 posts and 25 votes.
  • [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss? No rush.
    -[x] Exchange powerset descriptions? When? Which info, if yes? Respect Homura/Oriko.
    -[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Otherwise, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Likely attackers?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Exchange basic power descriptions? (If team agrees.)
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative/undeveloped groupchat consensus, break to voting.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi transport.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
    [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
    -[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Who's likely to attack?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative groupchat consensus, break to voting.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
    [x] Spar
    - [x] Agree
    -- [x] Rules of nature engagement
    --- [x] Go all out (barring gem shots)
    [x] Spar
    -[X] You will be sandbagging, to a degree. You're not here to kill her or blow shit up.
    --[X] If she inquires about this, demonstrate Prima Luce.
    --[X] Don't even harm her directly. Anything you can do that will really hurt her, you can do and pull at the last second. Prima Luce would be overly hostile.
    ---[X] Other than that, pull no punches.
    [X] Ping Homura about mutual defense pact and that they're agreeing to Walpurgis as part of it.
    [x] Don't contact your team yet.
    -[x] An extended discussion in person will be better than than trying to brief them remotely.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force/escalation/collateral. Despite free cleansing, you wouldn't want to destroy anything too valuable.
    --[x] But goad Yuki, "Give me the word to cut loose and I'll show you what I can really do."
    -[x] Go all out barring gem shots (within agreed guidelines).
    --[x] Combat-density fog, Sabrina in a sphere of grief for armor surrounded by decoy shells, fill volume with high-intensity light and sounds, grief constructs materializing out of the air to restrain and attack
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Let Yuki know you'll be conferring with Tomoe Mami.
    -[X] What attackers does she anticipate?
    --[X] You're out to help all Magical Girls. You will defend Fukushima if needed, but given the option would prefer to make peace with hostiles, either after fighting or before it starts.
    -[X] You'll be in touch later after thinking it over.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Formally agree, then provide payment (including Clear Seed).
    [X] Vote in abbeyance, as appropriate.
    [X]Agree to the Spar
    -[X] Establish rules, unless the intention is to level the area of course. Rules should err on avoiding collateral damage.
    -[X] Inside the agree upon rules don't hold back
    -[X] Tell Homura or Mami your about to spar in case its a trap or something.
    [X] Defense Pact - Your Interested
    -[X] Clarify what enemies she expects
    -[X] Point out you can't make the deal here, thats Mami's call really
    [X] Prison Contract Deal
    -[X] Agree to provide the anti-magic
    -[X] Also offer cash haggle but be generous. We're trying to start off a good business relationship here.
    - [X] Suggest the defense pact can be finalized when she comes to Mitakihara to get the anti-magic items
    --[X] Get Kirika to make the anti-magic items to not work on you as well - if it can be done discreetly.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Explain details,
    [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
    --[x] You'll wait if there's no fast consensus.
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Who's likely to attack?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no groupchat consensus, get back to her tomorrow.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for Mami tourism, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
Click to expand...
 
On making the pact *now* I feel like the in depth discussion could occur when we get the anti-mahic items delivered. This paces everything a little as well as letting Mami work in person on matters of her territory. This also lets Mami soical skills come into play to notice things.

I say we get the general idea on the pact that way we can discuss it with our team at home.

But well...

[X] Muramasa​
 
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