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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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One more thing:

We should totally look around our apartment for premium vantage spots.

Once we find the best perch to look into our apartment, we know where we're gonna leave a surprise gift for Homu. :p

Crasian01 said:
Has anyone asked them who their enemies are?
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[ ] Defense pact
-[ ] Yes, but with caveats that wouldn't force us to help the Fukushima like they helped Akiko.
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Any defense pact we negotiate should be negotiated carefully.

In the end, we'll try to help literally anyone who needs it, but not jsut to help them, but to resolve a situation in the best way we can help to.

So we should do a couple of things here:

One, don't agree to an all-encompasing defense pact; we can promise to help if needed, but the same way we want to help everybody. We won't have a repeat of what happened at Sendai, where meguca were being pulled into a fight they knew jack shit about because they owed favours. Fucking degenerate, that.

So we'll help everybody as best as we can; if she calls us to help in a fight, we're not gonna just be 'on her side' against a group of meguca who would simply be 'the enemy', but we'd rather stop the fighting and try to mediate a solution.

Second, and ON THAT NOTE: She readily admitted to her group's hands not being clean.

We can use this, as a bargain chip: Offer to help make peace with other groups.

It's in our interests, and it should be in the Fukushima group's interests... unless they don't want peace, and would prefer to have more enemies to fight, rather than making peace. Wouldn't that be a thing?

So let's say we offer that, when we visit meguca groups with our Clear Seed offer, we try and convince meguca to give peace a chance, bury any hatchets?
 
Vebyast said:
I suspect that this base is only shaped like an office building out of habit. As long as we don't disenchant it she'll just tell the building that it's fixed and it will be. And it's likely to be the strongest, most heavily trapped are she has.
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A possibility. But at the very least we should include a line asking about the potential for collateral damage in the vote - I'll show some responsibility even if it's unneeded.
 
Onmur said:
So let's say we offer that, when we visit meguca groups with our Clear Seed offer, we try and convince meguca to give peace a chance, bury any hatchets?
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This is fine, but note that it doesn't get you the Fukushima group for Walpurgisnacht. Offering to help broker peace is very different from offering force of arms, and it's likely that Yuki would view the offer as less valuable.

Of course, you could argue that the Fukushima group helping out was always going to be a long shot anyway, and that any agreement where they promise to help out during Walpurgishnacht probably would have too many strings attached and too many escape clauses (stated and unstated) to be worth it.

Personally, I think that agreeing to a defensive pact and accepting the risk is probably necessary, but with the qualification that we reserve the right to attempt to contact and negotiate with any and all combatants before entering into combat in support of Fukushima and its allies.
 
The thing with a defense pact is that you're agreeing to defend the other party if attacked, not to help them launch attacks if they're the aggressor.


The issue with gemsnatching is that to knock somebody out, we have to move their gem 100 meters away from them. Unless we spar in a football stadium, we're probably not going to have that sort of space to work with.
 
The Narrator said:
The thing with a defense pact is that you're agreeing to defend the other party if attacked, not to help them launch attacks if they're the aggressor.


The issue with gemsnatching is that to knock somebody out, we have to move their gem 100 meters away from them. Unless we spar in a football stadium, we're probably not going to have that sort of space to work with.
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100 meters in any direction, so using Grief to lift it as high as we can should work.
 
So a thing we should expect when sparring with Yuki: Spatial warping.

She just showed she can change the layout of her building as she pleases. Just like the first thing she did when meeting us was showing us she could put up a facade.

So we go expecting her to move the walls, the floor and ceiling; then she could take us by surprise by showing some other aspect of her powers. Like warping space around us.

So I'm thinking of something like:

[ ] Tell Homu about spar.
[ ] Spar
-[ ] Agree
--[ ] Be ready if she attacks right now.
--[ ] Go all out, barring Soul Gem theft and maybe dismeberment.
--[ ] Abuse Grief Fog. Absolutely nothing moves without your consent.
--[ ] The building is also the opponent. Beware possible spatial warping and magic interfering with your Grief control.

We also know magic can affect our Grief, and this place is loaded with magic.
 
Speaking of Grief, how much do we have directly with us? I think we've got some in fog form, our bag full along with our books/cash/obrez, but I think the rest was left on the roof in marbles?
If it is indeed a "start: now" fight against a veteran with complete control of the environment, that may be insufficient. Or it may be enough, 'cause 'Brina is awesome and Grief is bullshit.
Either way, we'd only have to survive long enough for the marbles to drill/slice/burn their way in.
 
Sabrina's greatest problem is not offense, but defense.

Truthfully, I've wondered why Sabrina doesn't start fights by encasing her entire body in an impenetrable crystal of Grief and then do everything else through Grief manipulation. She's a magical girl, so she could get away with not breathing.
 
The Narrator said:
The thing with a defense pact is that you're agreeing to defend the other party if attacked, not to help them launch attacks if they're the aggressor.


The issue with gemsnatching is that to knock somebody out, we have to move their gem 100 meters away from them. Unless we spar in a football stadium, we're probably not going to have that sort of space to work with.
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Yeah, but even so, the other party may have legitimate grievances. Sabrina's position is damaged if she's perceived as helping Fukushima continue injustices against others. In addition, "defense" often becomes "offense" as a "battlefield necessity", and it's going to be important to make it absolutely clear early in negotiations that Mitakihara is unwilling to invade the territory of other magical girls, even in the case where circumstances demand a follow-up attack. Otherwise, Yuki is not out of line for assuming that "defensive pact" would include "also any follow up attacks to secure the position of either party".

It's also suspicious that Yuki is making this request. Sure, her reasoning isn't bad, but there's at least some chance that she's anticipating trouble coming her way and wants backup.
 
I'm thinking we ask about collateral damage as part of the rules. Then we open, after body-killing Yuki, by going straight through the walls and exiting the building at just over mach 2
 
Thoughts on the defense pact:

[] Defense Pact
-[] Ask what threats she expects to face.
-[] Tentatively agree: You will need to run this by your friends.
-[] As a related matter, Note that reduced witch-hunting due to clear seeds is a problem you intend to figure out, ask if she has interest setting something up to deal with that.

Vebyast said:
I'm thinking we ask about collateral damage as part of the rules. Then we open, after body-killing Yuki, by going straight through the walls and exiting the building at just over mach 2
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There's pragmatic, there's paranoid, and then there's vicious. This is not the former.
 
Onmur said:
Go all out, barring Soul Gem theft and maybe dismeberment.
--[ ] Abuse Grief Fog. Absolutely nothing moves without your consent.
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No dismemberment bars a lot of potential attacks. What's the point of voting to be unsure about whether or not it's allowed?

That's not abusing Grief Fog. If Grief is touching something, it should at least try to be either superheated, cutting, or both.
 
Fukashima wasn't worried about the possible attacks from having a Clear Seed. Why is she so willing to get a defense pact with us that knowledge of walmart night isn't enough to scare her off?
 
The Phoenixian said:
There's pragmatic, there's paranoid, and then there's vicious. This is not the former.
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The things that I can see causing us trouble are nonphysical warping effects, stasis and time-dilation fields plus closed pocket dimensions and the like. I'd expect those to be ready-to-go effects that only require conscious triggers from Yuki. Not losing in the first few seconds means escaping from the prepared ground before she has a chance to activate anything, so we need to be gone in probably a second or two. If the building is an acceptable target (which I expect it to be, as long as we wouldn't be attempting to dispel it), and we have enough utility fog to avoid hitting anyone on the inside, and we ready our fog to catch debris and dampen the shockwave as we exit, I don't see why we'd do anything less than exit as quickly as we can.

Another note: We're still wearing Mami's ribbon. We need to contact her right now to let her know that the leader of the Fukushima group just challenged us to a spar and it may get very loud very quickly.
Aranfan said:
Fukashima wasn't worried about the possible attacks from having a Clear Seed. Why is she so willing to get a defense pact with us that knowledge of walmart night isn't enough to scare her off?
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Yeah. Whatever she wants that defensive pact for, it's a big deal, and we need to dig before we do anything there.

Do we think that Homura knows anything? I don't think she'd have gotten the same offer, given that she wouldn't have been demonstrating her abilities in a way that'd grant such a pact perceived value.
 
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I think Sabrina needs to stop barreling through with her plans for a moment and ask herself what does she really know about what's going on and how much is she just assuming about the people around her.

Currently Sabrina associates certain personalities and motives to girls she just met, and rationalizes their actions as the product of a line of reasoning from that archetype.

The Fukushima girls have a reputation as professionals, sure, but they never inquired why we need this particular girl imprisoned. We are currently attributing a level of sympathy softening their pragmatism that they have not displayed.

Also Sabrina just took a friend for granted. It doesn't matter how willing Kirika is to pay for our labor force for us, friends don't make their friends pay their tab!

We should not engage in this spar, even if we promised we should excuse ourself or forfeit.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I think we should strive to minimize collateral damage, given the chiding we gave her team about excessive collateral not that long ago.
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I think that I agree. However, if her power is the building, and our RoE prevent us from defending ourselves against the building, we're kinda hosed. So I'm thinking about the definition of "collateral", and concluding we need to ask her for some details about her power and set rules of engagement taking those into account.
 
Hmm... If Yuki turns out to be able to spatial warp inside her building, is there a possibility we might be separated more than one hundred metres from our Grief on the roof?

Also, there's a legitimate vote for losing: Rather than trying to take Yuki out, try to no sell literally everything she pulls, and otherwise wait her out. Force her to reveal her own tricks.

Torgamous said:
No dismemberment bars a lot of potential attacks. What's the point of voting to be unsure about whether or not it's allowed?

That's not abusing Grief Fog. If Grief is touching something, it should at least try to be either superheated, cutting, or both.
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I believe we'd get more points if we won while minimizing harm.

But Yuki seems like she would make that difficult, so in that case, then that stop needs to be pulled.
 
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On the spar, I think we should establish a few 'cheese rounds' against her. Gem Theft once, than Immobilize with Grief Cloud, ect. Just so we can establish, that we are holding back and normally we wouldn't be fighting fair or even skillfully.

It would be a show of honesty, and give her a shot at coming up with anti-cheese strats. Plus, she did ask for it.
 
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We should definetely gather more information and be very careful before we agree to any sort of defense pact. Probably also ask the people back home for their opinion. If there already are open conflicts Yukis group is involved in at the moment, things could get messy really fast. Maybe they're warring with the super villain group she mentioned? We should probbaly ask about them anyway.
 
Vebyast said:
I think that I agree. However, if her power is the building, and our RoE prevent us from defending ourselves against the building, we're kinda hosed. So I'm thinking about the definition of "collateral", and concluding we need to ask her for some details about her power and set rules of engagement taking those into account.
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"Don't expect the walls to stay standing if you attack me with them. ;)"
 
Raiseth said:
100 meters in any direction, so using Grief to lift it as high as we can should work.
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Unless we're inside. There are these things called "ceilings" that would be in the way.

Motile Mollusc said:
Speaking of Grief, how much do we have directly with us? I think we've got some in fog form, our bag full along with our books/cash/obrez, but I think the rest was left on the roof in marbles?
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If we'd left it behind it would have dissipated. We compressed it all down and brought it with us. Which is why teleporting us wore Sakura out so much.


Vebyast said:
Not losing in the first few seconds means escaping from the prepared ground before she has a chance to activate anything, so we need to be gone in probably a second or two.
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She specifically asked to see how we fight in a place of her choosing. Running off would be admitting that we can't and forfeiting the match.
 
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