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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Redshirt Army said:
Can we leave the power testing of Sayaka for today's enchantment study session? Informing Niko of future opportunities can happen now, but we do have other priorities than actually doing the testing now.
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I'm not intending to really rigorously test anything, just giving her power gem a look over so we can get our ideas flowing and mentioning the idea to Sayaka so that she can choose whether to make arrangements. I feel that this is something that she should test with Hitomi or Madoka (or Nagisa: "It's just so easy to imagine the two of you fighting side by side! :p") and given that Madoka is the most likely there to be vetoed by Homura, such a thing should be set up beforehand.

Because, well, if there's anyone in the world it's least likely to work properly for, it's Sabrina. Beyond that, if it follows familiar rules, what we've seen of how witch kisses work make it entirely plausible it doesn't work for magical girls at all. (It empowering muggles but not adding new powers to meguca does feel like it fits with Sayaka wanting to be her own agent here.)
 
I would prefer not lying to Anri either, but ultimately I can't prevent anyone from picking that. Thus the mention of "working with" and the whole "Better just Clear Yuuri anyways" approach: Don't bluntly correct her, yet don't lie either, and make sure the offered Clear Seed ("Yuuri is special!") is actually Yuuri.
 
Kkutlord said:
I would prefer not lying to Anri either, but ultimately I can't prevent anyone from picking that. Thus the mention of "working with" and the whole "Better just Clear Yuuri anyways" approach: Don't bluntly correct her, yet don't lie either, and make sure the offered Clear Seed ("Yuuri is special!") is actually Yuuri.
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We can't do that without entering the barrier and clearing the seed, since Kirika didn't bring it with her. Moreover, since Airi seems to think Yuuri's actual seed is a fake we're pushing on her for some reason, if we did that, she might well reject it anyway.
 
she's accusing O&K of giving her a fake

she is delusional

worrying about "lying" to her coming back to bite us seems a bit...unnecessary?

if showing her that the Clear Seed isn't unique doesn't get her to reconsider, then there is literally nothing we can do to convince her, and we're better off just giving her what she wants
 
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I would agree that we should probably not do something where there's a failure state of Kyubey going "that's not Yuuri's soul" and Anri going "they tricked me!". Either we're upfront that it's not Yuuri's soul, or we find a way to give her Yuuri's soul.
 
Firnagzen said:
"She's, er, how do I put this. A bit annoyed we're trying to give her a fake? D'you have a Clear Seed we can pretend with, maybe?"

Voting opens Today at 11:00 AM
[] Anri
- [] Lend/give Kirika a Clear Seed
-- [] Hildegarde
-- [] Apate (the Clear Seed given to the Pleiades)
-- [] Make a new one
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It appears their intent is to actually deceive Anri, despite being a potential minefield in the process.

Maybe we shouldn't have left this up to the duo that thought up setting a witch loose in a school?
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Jan 10, 2018 at 2:53 AM, finished with 131468 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X] Offer to clear another seed to show that Clear Seeds aren't unique. You didn't want to poke Arzt Kochen but it'd be stupid if she got mad at us for lying.
    -[X] Otherwise, lend Kirika Hildegard.
    [X] Niko:
    -[X] Emotional sharing, continued. The obvious experiment is trying it with a Clear Seed. They become less dormant with grief/magic interactions - try the most active?
    -[X] Ask if Niko wants to help form a research network. You'll later want to induct Riona, the soul manipulator, if she's reasonable.
    -[X] Discuss ethical grief seed substitutes a bit, offer clairvoyance to avoid experiment pitfalls. then let Niko rejoin the constellation.
    [X] Rejoin Sayaka and Mami.
    -[X] Ask how Sayaka's "clone at school" thing's going.
    -[X] Ask to examine one of Sayaka's gems, and examine its structure. (Compare to familiars.)
    --[X] Does she think they could empower non-megucas? Something to test, maybe?
    [x] Pass Kirika Hildegarde.
    -[x] Hopefully Airi re-evaluates when she sees Clear Seeds aren't unique. It'd be stupid if she got mad at us for lying later.
    -[x] Don't keep Kirika long. Wish her and Oriko luck.
    [x] Niko: Her thoughts on ethical grief seed substitutes.
    -[x] Clear Seeds are an improvement, but they're still ultimately Child of Omelas writ large.
    -[x] Grief normally only wants to exist inside souls. Your power is an exception, and so you must get better at enchantment.
    --[x] Sayaka's copied powers look like soul gems - decent starting point?
    [x] You're planning on forming a network to work on these issues, and share research and resources. Riona Mag Aoidh, who's wish magic is manipulating souls, is due to arrive in Mitakihara this week - you're hoping she'll be helpful. Is Niko interested?
    [x] Rejoin Mumi and Seyiku.
    -[x] ...Sayaka's clone's going to school? How's that going?
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didn't we explicitly tell both Oriko and Kirika about it and actually give them the seed?
 
[x] Pass Kirika Hildegarde.
-[x] Hopefully Airi re-evaluates when she sees Clear Seeds aren't unique. It'd be stupid if she got mad at us for lying later.
-[x] Don't keep Kirika long. Wish her and Oriko luck.

[x] Niko: Her thoughts on ethical grief seed substitutes.
-[x] Clear Seeds are an improvement, but they're still ultimately Child of Omelas writ large.
-[x] Grief normally only wants to exist inside souls. Your power is an exception, and so you must get better at enchantment.
--[x] Sayaka's copied powers look like soul gems - decent starting point?

[x] You're planning on forming a network to work on these issues, and share research and resources. Riona Mag Aoidh, who's wish magic is manipulating souls, is due to arrive in Mitakihara this week - you're hoping she'll be helpful. Is Niko interested?

[x] Rejoin Mumi and Seyiku.
-[x] ...Sayaka's clone's going to school? How's that going?

150 words.

Taking the reins from Oriko at this point is likely disastrous. I'll take a mediocre plan executed well over a gambit pileup anyday. That said, we should at least raise our idea with Kirika as a potential solution.
 
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[x] Pass Kirika Hildegarde.
-[x] Hopefully Airi re-evaluates when she sees Clear Seeds aren't unique. It'd be stupid if she got mad at us for lying later.
-[x] Don't keep Kirika long. Wish her and Oriko luck.

[x] Niko: Her thoughts on ethical grief seed substitutes.
-[x] Clear Seeds are an improvement, but they're still ultimately Child of Omelas writ large.
-[x] Grief normally only wants to exist inside souls. Your power is an exception, and so you must get better at enchantment.
--[x] Sayaka's copied powers look like soul gems - decent starting point?

[x] You're planning on forming a network to work on these issues, and share research and resources. Riona Mag Aoidh, who's wish magic is manipulating souls, is due to arrive in Mitakihara this week - you're hoping she'll be helpful. Is Niko interested?

[x] Rejoin Mumi and Seyiku.
-[x] ...Sayaka's clone's going to school? How's that going?
 
Should be fairly simple having Kirika retrieve Yuuri's Seed. If Anri is so convinced Clear Seeds are super special, she's unlikely to assume the "fake" and the new Clear Seed are the same one. So really, making Yuuri a Clear Seed wouldn't take long and Anri would realize Clear Seeds can be easily made if she's holding a Smart Ball.
 
*facepalm*

How much you want to bet Kyubey "confirmed" that the Pleiades had Yuuri's grief seed, to imply that Anri's theory was correct?
 
Cribbed a bit, added some minor edits: Bits cribbed from Redshirt's additions are in mauve.

[X] Lend Kirika Hildegard.
-[X] Hopefully Airi re-evaluates when she sees Clear Seeds aren't unique. It'd be stupid if she got mad at us for lying later.
-[X] If she needs an example, you're happy to make a clear seed in plain sight.

[X] Note that clear seeds move from "comatose" to "sleeping" with use. Which could help with magic-contacting them.
[X] Niko: Her thoughts on ethical grief seed substitutes.
-[X] Grief normally only exists inside souls. You're an exception, so enchantment could lead to something.
[Discussion?] If she wants, your "clairvoyance" means you can give Niko some notes on certain pitfalls she might encounter.
[X] Ask if she'd like to help form a research network.

[X] Rejoin Sayaka and Mami.
-[X] Ask how Sayaka's "clone at school" thing's going.
-[X] Ask to examine one of Sayaka's power gems, compare its structure to a familiar.
-[X] Mention that you're curious whether they only work for Sayaka, given her and Hitomi. Something to test later?

150/132, depending on whether the line that needs discussion is kept.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
[x] Niko: Her thoughts on ethical grief seed substitutes.
-[x] Clear Seeds are an improvement, but they're still ultimately Child of Omelas writ large.
-[x] Grief normally only wants to exist inside souls. Your power is an exception, and so you must get better at enchantment.
--[x] Sayaka's copied powers look like soul gems - decent starting point?
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Remember we need to keep the chat with Niko brief.
Firnagzen said:
Niko's going to tire of the science discussion relatively soon, and want to return to the rest of the constellation.
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Also, I think we might want to address the Freezer, as it seems it's hinted she's thinking about it. We should point out the horrifying dehumanizing aspect of it, which is what would have made Hijiri absolutely hate the Pleiades in the other timeline.
 
Torgamous said:
Naturally, but could you elaborate on where you've realized the same logic leads?
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Redshirt Army said:
Sayaka wished for personal agency. To be useful to the team, sure, but doing so personally.
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Well, I wasn't so much thinking about power sharing or even powers at all, so much as other aspects we might not have considered. What are the absolute best things she can do to not be a burden to the team, and to contribute something to the team? Those certainly do not have to be limited to things Sayaka knows about - refer to Kirika's wish - so the sky (or rather her potential) is the limit.

If it's merely "doesn't want to feel like a burden personally" then maybe there doesn't need to be any specific thing and maybe being the most versatile power copier we know of is enough, but I'll give Sayaka some credit in that I feel the intent behind do something isn't just about how she feels, but about what she actually does.

So if Sayaka wants to be able to do something, then I expect her wish could (but not necessarily does) manifest to push things along so she's never powerless regardless of the situation. That means that all these difficult challenges her friends face should be far easier to solve with her contribution. Things like Dewitching, Save Madoka, Defeat Feathers, Befriend Stupid Teenagers, Everyone Leaves Me, and so on. Because powers aren't the only aspect of a wish.

That's all I really have to say. Obviously it's not going to be a perfect focused thing like Kirika's wish but it shares the same characteristic of giving her exactly what she wanted regardless of if she knows it or not - the ability to contribute no matter what the challenge. It's a wish after all.
 
To put it bluntly, she didn't wish for the power to copy powers, or to be a badass meguca fighter. She wished to be able to help her friends.
 
AuraTwilight said:
To put it bluntly, she didn't wish for the power to copy powers, or to be a badass meguca fighter. She wished to be able to help her friends.
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[Q] Hug Sayaka!
-[Q] "Sayaka you're literally the best -after Mami- ever! You literally Wished for the Power of Friendship! That's so Hax!"
--[Q] "Teach me how to BEFRIEND, Sayaka-senpai."
 
Onmur said:
Also, I think we might want to address the Freezer, as it seems it's hinted she's thinking about it. We should point out the horrifying dehumanizing aspect of it, which is what would have made Hijiri absolutely hate the Pleiades in the other timeline.
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Perhaps something like:
"[] Caution her detaching a soul gem is not something to be treated lightly. You've made that mistake, and the scars it left were lasting."
 
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