Sayaka is not going to be remotely ready to do this. Hell I don't think we're ready to do this. It's one thing for the Shizuki's to know. They aren't directly involved and it's not their daughter that's risking her life on a regular basis. That's something that's going to severely impact Sayaka's parents and there will be fall out. This isn't something that should be brought up casually. It's a serious issue, that needs to be talked about when we're not dealing with this conflict. Bringing it up now, will cause Sayaka stress and anxiety and will distract her badly.
PMMM is no stranger to Free-Range Children. I don't think it will be that hard for Sayaka to come with an excuse for why she had to leave early this morning.
Makes sense. It jives with Niko's actions and Saki holding us back and what she said about Niko.
[x] Simultaneously: Telepathy the Pleiades + Mami + Sayaka. Note discrepancies in Hijiri's stated motives. Panic, malice? Uncertain, you'll work on it.
[x] Propose bringing Hijiri along.
[x] Talk to Hijiri.
-[x] Conversation goals:
--[x] Affirm Hijiri's agency and support her.
--[x] Make her feel safe enough to let go of the memory device.
--[x] Convince Hijiri to connect you to Yuuri.
--[x] If Hijiri is planning an ambush, let her think she has the upper hand.
-[x] Useful specifics:
--[x] Promise to ensure that Hijiri is treated fairly. No human experimentation, for example. --[x] Hijiri is acting out because she's desperate for control. She wants a sense of agency.
---[x] Phrase things as choices and consequences that she can choose.
---[x] Be careful! "I don't need you to defend me" was a response to Sabrina taking control away.
--[x] You want to help everyone. If nothing else, people without problems don't cause more problems.
--[x] Start dropping hints that Hijiri isn't alone in being wishborn.
[x] Simultaneously: Telepathy Sayaka and discuss her morning plans. Fly a clone home? Commit to revealing magic to parents?
[x] Ask for information about Yuuri. What is her power, what are her goals, what is she like as a person? ...Why trust her?
[x] Ask for a telepathy link to Yuuri. Ask to speak alone due to infohazards. Regardless of result, break for voting.
----
I am still going to include at least hinting at the wishborn thing since I think it's important and I haven't seen an argument to convince me against it.
I support the idea of starting to talk about our own likely wishborn status.
Adhoc vote count started by 4Dname on Nov 12, 2017 at 4:20 AM, finished with 128760 posts and 21 votes.
[x] Simultaneously: Telepathy the Pleiades + Mami + Sayaka. Note discrepancies in Hijiri's stated motives. Panic, malice? Uncertain, you'll work on it.
[x] Propose bringing Hijiri along.
[x] Talk to Hijiri.
-[x] Conversation goals:
--[x] Affirm Hijiri's agency and support her.
--[x] Make her feel safe enough to let go of the memory device.
--[x] Convince Hijiri to connect you to Yuuri.
--[x] If Hijiri is planning an ambush, let her think she has the upper hand.
-[x] Useful specifics:
--[x] Promise to ensure that Hijiri is treated fairly. No human experimentation, for example. --[x] Hijiri is acting out because she's desperate for control. She wants a sense of agency. ---[x] Phrase things as choices and consequences that she can choose. ---[x] Be careful! "I don't need you to defend me" was a response to Sabrina taking control away.
--[x] You want to help everyone. If nothing else, people without problems don't cause more problems.
[x] Simultaneously: Telepathy Sayaka and discuss her morning plans. Fly a clone home? Commit to revealing magic to parents?
[x] Ask for information about Yuuri. What is her power, what are her goals, what is she like as a person? ... Why trust her?
[x] Ask for a telepathy link to Yuuri. Ask to speak alone due to infohazards. Regardless of result, break for voting.
[x] Simultaneously: Telepathy the Pleiades + Mami + Sayaka. Note discrepancies in Hijiri's stated motives. Panic, malice? Uncertain, you'll work on it.
[x] Propose bringing Hijiri along.
[x] Talk to Hijiri.
-[x] Conversation goals:
--[x] Affirm Hijiri's agency and support her.
--[x] Make her feel safe enough to let go of the memory device.
--[x] Convince Hijiri to connect you to Yuuri.
--[x] If Hijiri is planning an ambush, let her think she has the upper hand.
-[x] Useful specifics:
--[x] Promise to ensure that Hijiri is treated fairly. No human experimentation, for example. --[x] Hijiri is acting out because she's desperate for control. She wants a sense of agency. ---[x] Phrase things as choices and consequences that she can choose. ---[x] Be careful! "I don't need you to defend me" was a response to Sabrina taking control away.
--[x] You want to help everyone. If nothing else, people without problems don't cause more problems.
--[x] Start dropping hints that Hijiri isn't alone in being wishborn.
[x] Simultaneously: Telepathy Sayaka and discuss her morning plans. Fly a clone home? Commit to revealing magic to parents?
[x] Ask for information about Yuuri. What is her power, what are her goals, what is she like as a person? ... Why trust her?
[x] Ask for a telepathy link to Yuuri. Ask to speak alone due to infohazards. Regardless of result, break for voting.
[X] Telepathy everyone present except Hijiri. Going over it, Hijiri's actions and stated motives are about as compatible with each other as 2 + 2 = 7. Provide relevant details; either a lot of important stuff is being glossed over or there's some sort of mental influence involved. Best to not make judgements before that possibility is ruled out.
[X] Out loud: We need to get after Airi. Hijiri is making a mistake in her reasoning: she is not free to go because she has gone from contract to home invasion and burglary in what sounds like a space of days. She will have ample opportunity to convince people that she isn't a thug, and you're sure that if she succeeds she will be able to leave. Meanwhile, you will guarantee her safety, as you would for anyone else.
[X] Question Hijiri on the chain of events leading to Niko's lab and her motives during it while searching for Airi. Point out any & all inconsistencies. See post for observed inconsistencies so far.
A friend sent this to me as a suggestion and I rather like it so with permission I'll be posting it up (with tweaks) as my vote.
[x] Explain why we can't let her go yet. When this is over, we'd very much like to see her obtain that peaceful life she desires, and maybe help her obtain it if necessary. We are not at all against her wanting to live her life as she see's fit, as long as she has no intention of harming others.
[x] Ask her to come with us willingly as we try and stop Yuuri and if she'll drop the memory device. Make it clear that both are also requests. Thank her if she does.
[x] Request that Hijiri connect you to Yuuri. That's not a demand, but we'd sincerely appreciate the help if she's willing to give it.
[x] If she doesn't cooperate at all, accept that, and simply ask Hijiri if she'd rather come with us as we try and stop Yuuri or if she'd prefer to sit things out under guard until we've stopped her from doing harm. Get the Saints input but don't treat it as binding.
[x] When you have a moment remind Sayaka about her parents waking up soon, and school. Probably a good idea to contact them soon and maybe think of a good cover story.
I'm a little behind on the thread, but I hope you got better engagement than I did when I raised all the same points... for like the last week or so? orz
I'm a little behind on the thread, but I hope you got better engagement than I did when I raised all the same points... for like the last week or so? orz
We've been aware of her contradictory statements for a while. The visceral reaction to seeing Hijiri get slapped kind of distracted us from probing those inconsistencies further, but most of us have been approaching our conversations with her from the angle that she might be what she seems, but she also might be lying and evil and pants-on-head crazy.
"Bring her along?" you suggest, working your fingers. "I'm... I still have questions, anyway."
And at the same time, you reach out by telepathy. "So, something I've noticed -and I think we need to get to the bottom of it- is that Hijiri's motives don't match up," you speak as quickly as possible, words spilling into the minds of the Pleiades and your friends.
"I noticed that too," Mami agrees.
"Explain?" Kazumi says tersely. She blows out a hard breath, scowling down at the concrete of the roof and scuffing her shoes as she feigns nonchalance. "Yeah, that's probably for the best," she concedes with a frown at Hijiri. Her attention flicks over to you. "You'll keep an eye on her?"
"Can do," you say, flashing her a thumbs-up.
"Her story doesn't add up," Sayaka says slowly. "That's what you mean, right? If, as she says, Anri told her that you'd hunt her down, then why the hell would she attack Niko's lab?"
"And of course I don't get a say," Hijiri mutters sourly.
"OK, you know what?" you look at Hijiri and raise a finger. "I'm going to address that. Gimme a few minutes. Kazumi, shall we all start heading, uh, south-east?"
"Bingo," you confirm telepathically. "Of course there are explanations. It could have been panic, it could have been clever manipulation by Anri, it could even have been just her being confused. But it could also mean she's lying through her teeth."
Kazumi nods decisively in response to your spoken question, so you immediately start folding Grief from the air and into the form of another mobile oppression fortress - you extend the platform further backwards than you normally would, allowing room for Hijiri's memory field. Any further discussion you can continue while in the air.
"And you still want to bring her along?" Saki asks, sending you a glance that tips her half-glasses down the bridge of her nose again.
"It's where she'll do the least damage if she's hostile, and where we can continue to talk to her if she isn't," you respond. Barring removing her Gem or something, anyway. "It's where we get to keep an eye on her. If she's planning an ambush - well, we're all aware of the possibility now, right?"
"I'll crush her if she tries anything," Mirai says, frost creeping into her voice.
"No!" Niko says. "Mirai- please, don't?"
"Mirai, it's fine," Kazumi says, and sighs. "Umika, Miss Oriko - any luck?"
Oriko and Umika report back with a distinct dearth of murderous formerly-silver-haired-but-now-blonde-hostiles, as everyone loads up. Hijiri climbs up onto the back of the platform without prompting, leaning sullenly against the back wall with her arms folded. Probably realised she can't do anything to get away right now, anyway, not with a whopping eight magical girls surrounding her.
You sprout a seat for her. She's isolated at the back of your platform, but that's because she refuses to relinquish the memory field as much as anything else.
You lift off into the sky, heading south-east. Past the skyscrapers of the central business district. None of the Pleiades say anything, all lost in their own thoughts. You ease out of Mami's hug, pressing a gentle kiss to her temple before standing. She blushes, and smiles warmly up at you.
"Right. Uh... I'm going to talk to Hijiri now," you say, setting the flight course in a south-easterly direction clear of any buildings while you ease past the rows of seats. You continue by telepathy. "Please let me try handling her?"
"I can hear you," the girl says, sourly.
"That was partly the point," you call. Sayaka nods at you as you pass, and that reminds you of something. "Y'know, letting everyone, including you, know that I'm coming over."
"Sayaka, if you're heading back, I think you need to do that soon," you say, shifting mental gears. You include Mami, too. "I... we'd welcome you if you want to stay, but what about your parents, and school?"
"Crap!" Sayaka says, eyes going wide. "Um, um..."
You pull up a seat in front of Hijiri. Literally. You make it theatrical, dipping your hand towards the floor and pulling a seat from it. Without a single word spoken over the rush of wind, you nevertheless get the distinct impression of hushed conversation behind you. Then again, everyone behind you is a magical girl. You don't need to speak to have hushed conversations.
Simultaneously, you continue your conversation with Sayaka. "Sayaka, as I said, we'd welcome you if you want to stay. I... I don't know how far your clones can reach, but you could fly one home, maybe, or head home, or... if you want, we could explain about magic later? Early morning meeting for a club or softball practice or something?"
"I'm waiting," Hijiri says, folding her arms and scowling at you.
"Sayaka, calm down," Mami says. "Panicking does you no good."
"And you're not giving me any openings," you counter, leaning back in your seat and drumming your fingers against your thigh. You flick a glance backwards to check on Sayaka as you weigh options and approaches, discarding ones you don't think will work. "Nah, you know what? I'll just be honest. Maybe I'm reading you wrong, or maybe I'm not."
Hijiri's eyes narrow.
"I want to help people," you say, spreading your hands. "Honestly, sometimes I feel like I was born to help people. Yes, that includes you."
"I don't need help," Hijiri bites out.
Uh huh. You let the pause stretch out for a moment so as to allow the irony to marinate. "Sayaka? You OK?"
"We've got you outnumbered and outgunned," you continue out loud. You can feel Niko twitching behind you, her fingers clenching spasmodically. "I mean... yeah. The way I see it, you can make a choice right now. Help us out, or just... stay a prisoner, I suppose."
"Help you out and stay a prisoner anyway?" Hijiri says sardonically.
"Early parole?" you offer, raising an eyebrow. "I'm not the police. Nor are the Pleiades, and punishment, or not, isn't exactly something I have codified. You attacked Niko, and you stole from her. And there are consequences, but you can choose to balance the scales somewhat. According to you, Yuuri is just as guilty of manipulating you into doing what she wanted, right? Do you want her caught too?"
"Guarantee of a chance against a guarantee of nothing," Hijiri snaps. "What a wonderful choice."
"Well, it is," you say, holding out an open palm. "I'm willing to personally guarantee your safety as long as you abide by the peace, if nothing else. And I can definitely enforce that, though I don't think I need to."
Hijiri scowls at you, but her look is... evaluating. Assessing.
"Can I persuade you to set aside the memory device?" you ask, motioning towards her hip. "It really isn't offering you any protection right now, is it?"
Her scowl deepens, but she reaches for the thing, belted at her waist. You can't help but notice the way her arm tenses as she unclips it, and holds it out at arm level to the side.
"Thank you," you say, smiling as you whisk it from her hand with your utility fog. With a thought, you pull it well away from your fortress, suspending it over thin air.
You can sense Hijiri properly now, that zone suddenly filled with a presence. You take a moment to check her Soul Gem, her Witch name - well within the safe zone, and...
Nephthys.
"I'll want that back later!" Niko calls. Hijiri's expression slams shut again, and you wince.
"Clone," Sayaka concludes. "I- I think I can send it that far."
"If you're sure," Mami says. Best Mami. She's covering for you, letting you concentrate on Hijiri, even if you can handle both. "As Sabrina said, we would be happy to have you, but there's no shame in leaving to attend to your life."
"You're staying too," Sayaka says stubbornly. "I can do this."
"Can you tell me anything about Yuuri?" you ask. "What's she like? Her powers?"
"She's deranged," Hijiri says flatly, arms still folded tight. "You wanted to talk to her?"
The connection blossoms instantly: you, Hijiri, and a third person.
"Hijiri?" a sharp voice says. "Who's that?"
Voting opens
[] Anri Airi, alias Yuuri
- [] What do you say to her?
[] Sayaka
- [] Confirm the clone plan
- [] Suggest something else
[] The hunt
- [] Head to the museum to plan
- [] Immediately spread out to search, we can't lose time
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)
=====
Sayaka'll send her clone off the next update, unless you suggest something else. Also, Kazumi will be directing you to meet back up at home base to reconvene and reassess for another hunt, unless you suggest something else.
Welp, we're in a conversation with Yuuri. That's great.
What we need to do now is engage both Hijiri and Yuuri in conversation simultaneously - make it so that they can't spare the time to coordinate a single story.
Welp, we're in a conversation with Yuuri. That's great.
What we need to do now is engage both Hijiri and Yuuri in conversation simultaneously - make it so that they can't spare the time to coordinate a single story.
You can sense Hijiri properly now, that zone suddenly filled with a presence. You take a moment to check her Soul Gem, her Witch name - well within the safe zone, and...
Egyptian deity. Sister of Osiris and Isis, Wife of Seth in his role as slayer of demons and Apophis especially, Mother of Anubis. Goddess of darkness, secrets, and the dangerous desert regions, and known for her fire breath and her magic. Guardian deity against demons, especially of the dead that go to the afterlife, but also of the infant Horus and his descendants, the Pharaohs, in her role as nursing mother. Not a soft or light deity, necessarily, but still an important and, notably, benevolent one. Also a goddess of beer, that protects against hangover.
Anyone have an interpretation what this says about Hijiri?
Egyptian deity. Sister of Osiris and Isis, Wife of Seth in his role as slayer of demons and Apophis especially, Mother of Anubis. Goddess of darkness and the dangerous desert regions, and known for her fire breath and her magic. Guardian deity against demons, especially of the dead that go to the afterlife, but also of the infant Horus and his descendants, the Pharaohs, in her role as nursing mother.
Anyone have an interpretation what this says about Hijiri?
[jk] "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for payment, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very short career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you return my clear seed now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you."
[jk] "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for payment, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very short career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you return my clear seed now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you."
Yeah, but Sabrina will look for her? To give her a clear seed, at the very least.
We could make it an exchange! We turn up and take the clear seed she stole, and then give her a clear seed, because every magical girl needs a clear seed.
Yeah, but Sabrina will look for her? To give her a clear seed, at the very least.
We could make it an exchange! We turn up and take the clear seed she stole, and then give her a clear seed, because every magical girl needs a clear seed.
"Sabrina Vee, at your service... well actually not at your service given you seem to have stolen one of my clear seeds - I will need that back actually - a more pressing concern for me is what exactly you told this girl."
Warn everyone, Pleiades and Hijiri included, that we'll talk with Yuuri alone for the time being, because of possible infohazards.
That's an excuse to cut Hijiri from this call, or start a new call with Yuuri without Hijiri.
Meanwhile, start talking with Hijiri (out loud) about her actions, and their logical consequences. Affirm her feelings matter, that we can't judge her as wrong and Niko as right simply and completely; but still, her actions weren't the correct course of action if she wanted to improve her situation.
... Of course, we shouldn't be just telling her she did wrong; rather, while talking about her actions, help her point out the inconsistencies in her own actions, and help her comprehend where she really stands. She's created her own circumstances.
At the end, if we make enough progress, we can offer to be friends once this is all over?
"Yo. I'm the creater of the clear seed, I'm the MG equivalent to a massive nuclear arsenal, I'm the soon-to-be liberator of the human race from our cute little evil alien overlords. I'm Sabrina the plausibly teenaged witch. New phone, who dis?"
I feel that if we're having a parallel convo with Hijiri to keep her occupied it's time to reveal we're the result of a wish too. We have another opportunity.
I feel that if we're having a parallel convo with Hijiri to keep her occupied it's time to reveal we're the result of a wish too. We have another opportunity.
To put my feelings on this as concisely as possible: There's no way in hell we should discuss our possibly having been created with a wish with Hijiri before we've done so with Mami and Sayaka.
To put my feelings on this as concisely as possible: There's no way in hell we should discuss our possibly having been created with a witch with Hijiri before we've done so with Mami and Sayaka.
