Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Muramasa said:
Firn. Doesn't. Punish. Like. This.

You have to screw up at a fundamental level for Firn to take your vote and go bad places with it. Not this really technical 'gotcha' style stuff like this. Hijiri stumbled because she was running away in a panic and had to keep track of us and Sayaka's platform while still roof hopping at the same time and she stumbled.

Second spiraling barring few exceptions takes considerable time, (not seconds) before it becomes a major threat. Sayaka was spiraling for days in canon and didn't witch.

As I said, as long as prompt cleansing is in the vote, I see little reason to worry.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
While I believe Redshirt's change should solve the possibility, I'll point out that I recall Firn speaking to the effect that he would warn us before we suddenly jumped off a cliff and give hints out before he did major things.

In this case... we have a number of hints and alternate paths. Mostly about Asunaro in general, but the're there.

With the exception of when we introduced her to it, as long as Oriko has talked about Asunaro, she's shuddered and cautioned against going there in a way that denotes that Asunaro would be a colossal mess. As such, I think it prudent to be wary of things that could be extraordinary messy.

There's also preparations that we never made before coming here. When consulting with Oriko we didn't actually make a plan for going to Asunaro if needed and she noted that staying longer wouldn't be overstaying our welcome, which always kinda felt to me like saying there was more left to do. (Others may not agree on that point, but I want to say it anyways.)

A couple updates later, we get out of timestop with Homura and at the end of it Mami paraphrases the line that, in canon, is her death flag. This had us worried last chapter. Note that we're now up against at least one of two girls who's origins involves witnessing her friend witch out for the first, and being in close proximity to that same witch, (and a later associate of that first girl) for the second. (Depending on what changed, the timing of things, and how much they've talked already, it might be worth considering Hijiri bleating out the witchbomb as well.)

Alternate paths wise, we had a chance to identify the girl trailing the Saints as a potential adversary earlier and we didn't go through with that which could have been anything from a second chance to prepare to a chance to talk to Hijiri before she made her move.

(It's also worth noting that we are meters away from a memory alteration field, and a friend with similar powers. Which makes that things theoretically much more recoverable for Mami if you don't think it's a trap option.)

And on top of all that, Firn hasn't added pre-prepared votes and has drawn attention to that fact. I have no idea what that means and it leaves me wary.
 
Phoenixian, I'm really not that worried about her witching out. Sabrina's already under a running vote to automatically cleanse any time someone she knows is filling up on grief, and it would be wildly out of character for her not to catch or let go Hijiri succumbing to despair.

What's a bit more dangerous is the idea that Hijiri might let Mami know the witchbomb, but even then I think we can stop Tetris at this point.

I'm mostly concerned about getting Hijiri to stop struggling, milking her for information, making sure we get Kazumi's weigh-in on her sentencing, and finding any accomplices that may still be loose in the city.
 
Yeah, I think that thinking about this in terms of "sentencing" is a godawful idea. We decided a long time ago that we were way in the direction of rehabilitative justice, and not using terms like "sentencing" is a step toward that. Oh, and not saying things like "holding her head under the water until the bubbles stop". That's also pretty important.

...If I have to keep arguing this I'm going to turn into ugolino. :/
 
On the whole question of whether punishment is appropriate it's worth keeping in mind that (assuming, as is likely, that we're about to recover the clear seed) there was no lasting harm other than to Mami and Sayaka's school attendance record. Now if someone was killed or witched then I might be less sympathetic but really we can put everything back together as it was before, we don't need to be harsh on this girl.
 
[x] Redshirt Army

I'm hopping on the bandwagon here. I'm not really sure how worried we should be about a grief spiral, but if it were to happen this would be pretty much the worst place, and better safe than sorry. Plus it's always better to try to be diplomatic about things before going straight for the antimagic.
 
Karnewarrior said:
Phoenixian, I'm really not that worried about her witching out. Sabrina's already under a running vote to automatically cleanse any time someone she knows is filling up on grief, and it would be wildly out of character for her not to catch or let go Hijiri succumbing to despair.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Normally, yes. But we can't clearly sense her gem right now due to the memory field.

The memory device is stolen; she has no right to be using it, and we have every right to shut it off for her if she refuses to turn it off herself.
 
The Phoenixian said:
And on top of all that, Firn hasn't added pre-prepared votes and has drawn attention to that fact. I have no idea what that means and it leaves me wary.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because I wanted to leave this vote more open-ended. :V
Vebyast said:
Ask someone where she keeps her grief seed - or where Niko keeps her grief seed - and tape a grief seed to a stick.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is the best mental image. Sabrina concentrating and poking at Kanna with a Grief Seed on a stick.
 
Firnagzen said:
This is the best mental image. Sabrina concentrating and poking at Kanna with a Grief Seed on a stick.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

... brb editing bandwagon.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Nov 1, 2017 at 1:40 AM, finished with 127750 posts and 21 votes.
  • [x] Telepathy everyone. Suspect captured. It's Hijiri, she's distraught. You'll try to calm her down.
    -[x] Acknowledge everyone's good work.
    -[x] Sayaka: Good work, keep it up - she's on overwatch. Antimagic, preparations for AoE, etc.
    [x] Simultaneously: Cleanse everyone. Ask Hijiri to lower the memory field so you can help her too.
    -[x] Make certain she doesn't grief spiral. Use a pole if necessary.
    [x] Be empathetic Sabrina, if confused by her choice of actions. Ditch the witchy feeling.
    -[x] Promise Hijiri you won't hurt her. You're here to help everyone, it's all going to turn out okay. Let her calm down. Be careful.
    -[x] Ask why she grabbed the stuff. Offer help - better solutions always exist.
    [x] Wait for the others to get here, then step aside and allow the Pleiades to take over. Mediate if necessary.
    -[x] If Hijiri is cooperating, put in a good word for her.
    [X] Act professionally and respectfully towards Hijiri
    -[X] Check her for clear seeds and remove the memory device and any seeds we find.
    -[X] Cleanse Hijiri. Have Sayaka use her antimagic if necessary.
    -[X] By the way, we're taking our seed back. If she needs cleanses, we'll provide them.
    [X] If we find the clear seed, regroup with the full team sans Oriko and Kirika, who have leave to wander the commercial district for now - No lighting anything on fire this time, however.
    [X] If not, continue search pattern for everyone but us, Mami, Saki, and Sayaka.
    [X] Good Job Sayaka.
    [X] Interrogation
    -[X] Ask Kazumi for permission to begin questioning. This is her realm and her criminal - subject to her rules and her punishment.
    -[X] In the meantime, try to get Hijiri as calm as possible. Cleanse as needed, with her consent.
    -[X] Figure out why, how, and for who Hijiri stole the seed and device.
    [X] Stay out of range of the Memory Device, even if deactivated.
    [X] Confirm Hijiri's capture. She's scared.
    [X] Be empathetic Sabrina.
    -[X] Promise Hijiri you won't hurt her. Give her enough time and space to calm down.
    [X] Acknowledge everyone's good work. Nod to Sayaka.
    [X] Offer Grief cleansing all around, including Hijiri.
    [X] Introductions.
    -[X] Ask Hijiri to cooperate, and return what she stole; reassure her everything will be fine if she does.
    -[X] Use Grief to handle the Device and keep it away from everyone.
    -[X] You regret what's happened. You hoped to meet under happier circumstances.
    [X] Try to get her side of things. She hasn't hurt anybody. Be understanding; offer help if she cooperates.
    [X] Explain how her actions hurt Niko.
    [x] Telepathy the group. Suspect captured. It looks like Hijiri, she's hysterical. You'll try to calm her down.
    [X] Be empathetic Sabrina, if confused by her choice of actions.
    -[X] Promise Hijiri you won't hurt her. Ask her to drop the memory field so you can discuss this without shouting. Let her calm down.
    --[X] Ask her to willingly turn over what she took. Whatever she thinks she needs it for, there's certainly a better solution than theft.
    [X] Acknowledge everyone's good work. Nod to Sayaka.
    -[X] Offer Grief cleansing all around, including Hijiri. If she hasn't yet dropped the interference field, ask her to so you can help her.
    [X] Wait for the others to get here. If Hijiri is cooperating thus far ask Kazumi and the Pleides to go easy on her. Step aside for now and allow the Pleides to take over.
Click to expand...
 
The Narrator said:
Normally, yes. But we can't clearly sense her gem right now due to the memory field.

The memory device is stolen; she has no right to be using it, and we have every right to shut it off for her if she refuses to turn it off herself.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"We have the right" does not mean "We should". Far from it. How many exercises of your rights do you avoid because they'd involve being a reprehensible shitbag? 'Cause for me it's quite a big chunk of the configuration space.
Firnagzen said:
This is the best mental image. Sabrina concentrating and poking at Kanna with a Grief Seed on a stick.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
:D

I'm totally not going to argue if that's how we end up defusing this. :p
 
I wasn't joking.

[x] Telepathy everyone. Suspect captured. It's Hijiri, she's distraught. You'll try to calm her down.
-[x] Acknowledge everyone's good work.
-[x] Sayaka: Good work, keep it up - she's on overwatch. Antimagic, preparations for AoE, etc.

[x] Simultaneously: Cleanse everyone. Ask Hijiri to lower the memory field so you can help her too.
-[x] Make certain she doesn't grief spiral. Use a pole if necessary.

[x] Be empathetic Sabrina, if confused by her choice of actions. Ditch the witchy feeling.
-[x] Promise Hijiri you won't hurt her. You're here to help everyone, it's all going to turn out okay. Let her calm down. Be careful.
-[x] Ask why she grabbed the stuff. Offer help - better solutions always exist.

[x] Wait for the others to get here, then step aside and allow the Pleiades to take over. Mediate if necessary.
-[x] If Hijiri is cooperating, put in a good word for her.

Still still 150 words.
 
Vebyast said:
"We have the right" does not mean "We should". Far from it. How many exercises of your rights do you avoid because they'd involve being a reprehensible shitbag?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
By what sort of bizarre thought process does "shut down an enemy's weapons system because it's endangering themselves and others" equate to "being a reprehensible shitbag"? o_O

She's using a device to tamper with the minds of everyone in proximity to her, and that's something that she has no right or justification to continue doing.
 
Stray thought I don't remember seeing suggested yet. What if , instead of anything nefarious and vengeancy, Hijiri stole the Clear-Seed and the Memory-Device to try and stop Niko's reasearch for some reason? Possibly even a protective reason!

Say, if our pseudo-sister in "Birth Ex Nihilo" has at least enough metaplot-awareness to be trying to prevent Jyubey et all ! Or aware of witchbomb and not wanting a clear seed screwed with (especially if this was the extra-strange one we'd given Oriko for a while, i forget) , or some other reason to interfere with SCIENCE!
 
The Narrator said:
By what sort of bizarre thought process does "shut down an enemy's weapons system because it's endangering themselves and others" equate to "being a reprehensible shitbag"? o_O

She's using a device to tamper with the minds of everyone in proximity to her, and that's something that she has no right or justification to continue doing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
  • Police officer politely asks suicidal guy to please step away from the edge of the bridge so they can talk about it.
  • GET ON THE GROUND AND KEEP YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SE- oh okay bye then.
Mindset matters. When you say things like "we have every right", particularly in the context of further traumatizing a panicking, defeated opponent, you look quite a lot more like the latter. I understand that the thing should end up turned off for her safety and... well, not really the safety of the people around her, she's no longer a threat, but certainly at least her own safety. But that doesn't mean that the right thing to do is GET ON THE GROUND AND &etc. There's a reason I'm suggesting ordering her to cleanse herself, and resorting to grief-seed-onna-stick if that fails, rather than advocating further violence.
 
Last edited:
Muramasa said:
Firn. Doesn't. Punish. Like. This.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Kanna Hijiri witching out is not a punishment to voters, nor is Mami guaranteed to never be traumatized by learning sad truths about the world she lives in.

We shouldn't expect to be immune to story development just because it would make Mami sad! And it doesn't mesh with the fact that Mami has previously been traumatized by developments in the quest.
 
Vebyast said:
. I understand that the thing should end up turned off for her safety and... well, not really the safety of the people around her, she's no longer a threat, but certainly at least her own safety. But that doesn't mean that the right thing to do is GET ON THE GROUND AND &etc.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Asking politely first is a given, but I very much doubt that it will work given her mental state. And barking orders is likely pointless for the same reason, so I wouldn't even bother. If asking nicely doesn't work, an antimagic pulse can solve the problem without harming her in any way.

Keep in mind that, in contrast, she didn't have the courtesy to even try talking before she started firing antimagic at people.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top