I mean, think about how hard it'd be to make a tattoo work underneath your fingernail - you'd have to get rid of the nail, then get the tattoo into the nailbed, then fix it there with the nailbed being one of the higher-rate-of-change bits of the body, and then you'd have had to hide that operation not just from the parents but the entire practice from the world, all without the benefit of kyubey's memory fuckery.
Or you could just draw it on with nail polish, henna and/or temporary tattoos. Haven't you ever seen someone with an image painted on her fingernails? It's actually not uncommon. One woman I knew liked to draw little flowers on them.


I just don't see the catastrophic offence some people are claiming this will cause.
Neither do I. As someone else pointed out, she took us aside to discuss this in private. That means that she's damn well aware that this is a topic to be handled with discretion.

Most people would fully expect that if they tried to talk to someone about something that said person had been keeping a secret, then said person would be reluctant to begin talking about it. Far from being offended, she should be fully expecting us to be confused and reluctant.
 
  1. We want to read her in regardless. Walpy is coming to town, and she'll need to prepare at some point. Even if we didn't intend on letting her know yet, she'd find out some things eventually anyway.
  2. If she is familiar with magical girls, then she's just been presented with the idea that it could affect her daughter as well as confronted with whatever experiences she had with magical girls. Those experiences, if she was close enough to be safe from Kyubey's memory wipes, probably ended poorly.
Between those two things, trying to preserve the masquerade here becomes unnecessary and potentially cruel. Not "haha I'm laughing at your pain cruel," but "your daughter is associated with something terrible and I'm trying to hide it from you cruel." It might not come across that poorly as one hopes she would be empathetic to the situation of girls who are used to being forced to hide this from everyone, but since we're going to have to tell her anyway, hiding it here just seems like sacrificing being empathetic to her possible situation for the sake of unnecessary paranoia.
On the other hand, immediately confirming something referenced relatively vaguely demonstrates loose lips and a lack of maturity and forethought, all three of which are very important both in friends and in business partners.

It would be offensive for us to continue to try to maintain the masquerade after she confirms she's being serious, but at this point we're making the point that the masquerade is still in effect.

She may not even know Hitomi knows. In fact I think it's likely she doesn't. If we don't even make a show effort to protect the masquerade, it''ll only convince her we read Hitomi in because we thought it'd be cool.
 
I want to point out that Ms. Shizuki herself left room for her to be wrong about guessing we're magical girls, prefacing it with "this may sound strange." Us responding in kind shouldn't insult her, because she literally just did the exact same thing.
If you're in doubt, just show her our soul gem. Actually showing her magic, however minor, will be plenty to defuse misconceptions.

Strategy wise, I'm more inclined to Kaizuki proposed starting points.
 
On the other hand, immediately confirming something referenced relatively vaguely demonstrates loose lips and a lack of maturity and forethought, all three of which are very important both in friends and in business partners.
This. Seriously, anyone who blurts out confirmation of their secret the moment that it's hinted at is not someone who can be trusted with sensitive information. It will make a much worse first impression than proceeding with caution.
 
I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing against here or why. I don't think anyone is proposing anything beyond a "I'm sorry for your loss" level of sympathy (I am not proposing that exact phrase), which is a pretty normal way of reacting when someone brings up that they've lost someone, no matter the age difference or how long it's been. Also, it may be somewhat manipulative of me to say this, but verbally recognizing that she's probably lost someone to the magical girl system gives a clear, immediate demonstration that we understand the inherent tragedy and are treating it accordingly.
Maybe I misread, but the vibe I'm getting is far beyond "I'm sorry for your loss".

This. Seriously, anyone who blurts out confirmation of their secret the moment that it's hinted at is not someone who can be trusted with sensitive information. It will make a much worse first impression than proceeding with caution.
Unless, you know, we go ahead and share we were planning to do this, anyway.
 
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But we want to tell her, so preventing a misunderstanding is an impediment to our goal.

If she mean't something else and is surprised to have hit upon the truth, well that's just an icebreaker.
 
If there's a secret community of muggle lesbian teenage girl larpers running around with fingernail tattoos and soul-gem ring analogues with a sufficiently strong community to remain perfectly consistent across generations and with sufficient geographic extent to include Hitomom's high school, I want to find them, because they're about as good at opsec and black finance as the goddamn Illuminati and we need them to help us build our little meguca nation. Or just co-opt it, they've already done all the hard work.

What the fuck else could this be? She knows, we know that she knows, she know that we know that she knows, and she already told us to quit beating around the bush. If she was just hinting at things I'd be fine, but she did everything she could to establish her bona-fides and get straight to the point and requested that we do the same.
Maybe I misread, but the vibe I'm getting is far beyong "I'm sorry for your loss".
Brinapilot will handle it. They important part is that, just in case she watched her girlfriend witch out in front of her when she was a teenager, we need to treat her concerns as valid and significant and address them with respect. "I'm sorry for your loss" is absolutely warranted - I am seriously considering augmenting my vote with that line as an opening and segue - but we additionally need to not talk about this like a business proposal. She is concerned that we are going to get ourselves and Hitomi broken, killed, or worse. Past that, remember that she's an adult and is probably thinking of us as teenagers; if we're particularly unlucky she could be of the opinion that we've already demonstrated compromised judgement in the act of becoming meguca; we need to be the adult here, and that means shifting into full-blown Responsible Adult mode. And that means that we treat this with gravitas and care.
 
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Her mother must have known that girls loving other girls is one of the risk factors leading to magical girldom. :V


"I'm surprised," one of your friends says. "I didn't expect that kind of attitude from you."

Well, of course he's surprised. The question is pretty much implicit in his voice -- who even is homophobic these days? Not very many people are, not in this day and age. But you are, apparently.

You know exactly how many people are homophobic because you've heard the wishes. "I wish I lived in a world where I could kiss my girlfriend in public," or "I wish my father accepted me," or "I wish my brother was still in my family," on and on and on. People still make these wishes even now, because they've only ever been patches, not fixes. There's always someone who feels crushed, and all of the magic in the world couldn't change human nature, not completely -- and the magic that exists isn't so magical, in the end.

"It's not me I worry about," you say. "Or my husband. We're not homophobic."

"You're just worried about everyone else," he says.

No, you're only worried about one person in particular, and it's not even really a person, you don't think, it never ever was --

"I don't want her to have to feel different," you say rather lamely. "I don't want her to have that kind of issue in her life."

"Kids are always going to feel different," he says. "If they don't feel different for being gay, they'll feel different for being rich, or being poor, or not having enough friends, or having the wrong kind of friends. That's part of life, or at least, it's part of growing up."

You wouldn't worry if only you had a son instead of a daughter.

"You don't have to be a perfect parent, you know," he says. "You just have to be good enough. She'll be fine."

What are you supposed to tell him? You have to be a perfect parent, because you don't want your daughter to have problems in her life, because problems are how that thing gets to you. It looks for cracks in your life and tears them open, it chews you up and spits you out.

And now you're left in the awful position of loving your daughter more than anything else in the world, but wishing that she could be someone else. If, if, if -- if she were more normal, she would be someone else, she would be safe. Wouldn't she be safe? Or would there be some new fault?

The fact that you don't want to admit is that he's right, and there's always going to be that kind of fault in Hitomi's life. You don't want to admit that's true, because it means facing the fact that Kyubey is always there, and he could always take her, and there's nothing you can really do about it. You have to look away, because you want to believe you have control. What kind of parent would you be if you didn't have control? What kind of parent would you be if you couldn't keep her safe?

"She'll be fine," you echo. "I suppose you're right."

It's been years since you saw Kyubey's face, and you've forgotten what it looks like. It feels like a dream, and this is why you allow yourself to look away. Maybe it was a dream, a nightmare; maybe it was a story you told yourself to make sense of senseless hurt and death.

You know it wasn't a dream, and you know it in your bones.
 
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Unless, you know, we go ahead and share we were planning to do this, anyway.
Problem is, the first thing we say is going to give her a very strong first impression either way.

I'd rather her think we're overly cautious than think we're overly nonchalant. Remember that we weren't just reading her in for XP in charisma and a nice thing to do for Hitomi - we were looking to her as a business partner. One we intend to set up a secret and likely illegal business relationship with - it's important that we demonstrate that we understand there's a masquerade in place and that we don't drop it just because somebody claims to already know our secret, no matter how likely it seems. We're not just demonstrating we can keep being meguca quiet, but that we aren't the type to blab to people just to make them like us.

We're dealing with confidential information here. If she's offended that we don't immediately break under clever phrasing, she's a friggin' idiot and we need to find another rich person to fund the Hotel.
 
Timestop is "flashy," if Homura takes the steps to engage it people will notice. I suppose that she could excuse herself... So that's not implausible.

... um.

"Of course, Mrs Shizuki," Mami says, pausing on the staircase and looking politely inqusitive.

You echo Mami's agreement, pausing and letting the others pass you on the stairs before descending back to the living room. You can't help but fidget a little, uncomfortable as Hitomi peeks over the railing before shrugging and heading into her room with everyone else. The door shutting feels oddly final.

"Please, sit down," Mrs Shizuki says, waving at the sofa. She waits until you do so before sitting herself, folding her legs primly.

"What did you want to speak about, Mrs Shizuki?" Mami asks. You can't help but admire her poise, though the way she squeezes your hand belies her perfect calm.

"I must first apologise in advance if this sounds strange," Mrs Shizuki says, smiling in a rather self-depreciating way. "I wasn't quite sure with Sayaka, but I think, on seeing all of you, that I'm right."

... um.

"Yes, Mrs Shizuki?" Mami asks, unruffled calm still firmly in place.

"You're all magical girls, aren't you?" Mrs Shizuki asks. "Oh, don't look so surprised. I was a teenager once too, you know."

Goals:

Convey "don't spread witchbomb" with Mami sitting right next to us
Reassure Hitomom
??? (Situation is evolving)

Train of thought: we're going to have to imply what we know alongside the fact that not everyone else knows. Easiest way to do that is "we know things." Easiest way to do that is the brief origin story. Easiest way to imply everything, I think, is just to diss QB out loud.

We can probably trust her not to bandy the witchbomb about freely, of course, but...

Here: the "too specific" version

[] Broadly and unspecifically diss Kyubey.
[] Madoka and Hitomi are uncontracted, and will hopefully stay that way.
-[] Madoka and Sayaka were contacted by Kyubey initially. Some of the social results were... Awkward, for Hitomi. At that point, completely excluding her would have been considerably dangerous. Better to give her some information and not all than to have her start following people around unprotected, or making contracts to help.
--[] Pointed looks on "some information" and "not all."

Here: the "we should probably do this" version

[] Broadly and unspecifically diss Kyubey.
[] Madoka and Hitomi are uncontracted, and will hopefully stay that way.
[] Sayaka and Madoka were contacted (NOT contracted) by Kyubey. Partially informing Hitomi was necessary for her safety once the social consequences began to distance the two from her. Too much information has a tendency to be just as problematic, unfortunately.
-[] Use this to imply to Hitomom that ffs don't talk about the witchbomb.


We probably want to talk about cleansing sooner rather than later, though. But I have class.
 
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[Q] "Well, Hitomimom, see this right here? This is a Grief Seed. Some Magical Girls kill each other to get more of this. Now this, this is an Empty Seed. This is worth somewhere around... oh, two hundred million dollars?
-[Q] Green eyed Hitomimom interrupt.

:p
 
On the other hand, immediately confirming something referenced relatively vaguely demonstrates loose lips and a lack of maturity and forethought, all three of which are very important both in friends and in business partners.

It would be offensive for us to continue to try to maintain the masquerade after she confirms she's being serious, but at this point we're making the point that the masquerade is still in effect.

She may not even know Hitomi knows. In fact I think it's likely she doesn't. If we don't even make a show effort to protect the masquerade, it''ll only convince her we read Hitomi in because we thought it'd be cool.

She is being serious. Everything she's said shows that she was aware of magical girls when she was younger, but had no interaction with them recently. Something about Sayaka gave her suspicions, but the large group of vaguely associated girls with rings and fingernail tattoos either confirmed it for her or reminded her so strongly of her experiences that she approached us directly. And, mind you, she intentionally took aside the two oldest girls, who every other meguca is tied to, and specifically asked whether we're magical girls. Context and understanding of human behavior shouts that she's serious and that she's concerned about what that means for her daughter and possibly for us.

Additionally, nobody is advocated responding in a way that anyone would think implies "we thought id'd be cool" to tell someone. That is overstating a reaction to the point of ridiculousness.

This. Seriously, anyone who blurts out confirmation of their secret the moment that it's hinted at is not someone who can be trusted with sensitive information. It will make a much worse first impression than proceeding with caution.

Except that we don't actually have much reason to hide it from her since we were going to tell her anyway, and she's pretty much done everything to say that she already knows the secret short of explaining the magical girl cycle herself or actually doing magic. Oh, also, the secret is maintained by Kyubey anyway and she probably wouldn't have a reason to think she should be excluded from it. Why would she even think that hiding it from her is supposed to be a good thing?

Maybe I misread, but the vibe I'm getting is far beyong "I'm sorry for your loss".

Offering a shoulder to cry on is obviously too far in the other direction, but the votes presented aren't saying anything to that effect. I, and others, am just saying that we keep these thoughts in mind: She has probably lost someone to this. Treat that with respect, and offer sympathy. She may be worried that she'll lose her daughter to it, too. Don't let that fear linger.
 
Her reaction to "It's all magical girls" is misunderstood in a way that has Sabrina worrying that she's overtly homophobic.

The next line reinforces this; whatever Sabrina saw in that glance is enough to make Sabrina expect outright hostility. She is not fishing for information. She did not have a mysterious disappearance that she wondered about. Whatever it was, she knows enough about magical girls to react with visible, controlled near-hostility decades later. How do you explain that with anything other than actual magical girls?

We also have this description of her character to go on:

She is being direct with us and we need to be direct with her. She was sharp enough to notice it in Sayaka on her own, no social dynamics or lesbians to draw on. She told us that she knows and we need to respect that.

It further establishes that she knows about actual magic; why would she expect "I played D&D when I was a girl too" to sound strange? She knows that she's talking about something weird enough that it'd be incomprehensible to anyone but a contractee or associate.

I mean, I suppose it gives us a way to pretend to be stupid, but look at this:
One of Sabrina or Mami - probably both - reacted with visible surprise to the words "magical girl". Which means that she knows that we know, and she knows that there's a high-power masquerade up and that we really weren't expecting her to be in on it.
Sure, we can be direct with her, but she's not going to lose her shit over us saying "Just for my peace of mind, could you clarify exactly what you mean by 'magical girls' before we continue?" It's not lying, it's not dodging, it's not claiming she's incorrect or anything - it pauses holds up the conversation for what, twenty seconds? There's a masquerade on, it would be weird if we didn't do this.

I do not believe that LARPing is a common enough activity that it wouldn't sound a bit weird to admit to some chuunibyou tendencies when you were younger, to say nothing of what might occur if she is, in fact, using "mgical girls" as a euphemism for lesbianism.


If there's a cabal of muggle lesbian teenage girl larpers running around with fingernail tattoos and soul-gem ring analogues with a sufficiently strong community to remain perfectly consistent across generations all the way to wherever Hitomom went to high school, I want to find them, because they're about as good at opsec and black finance as the goddamn Illuminati and we need them to help us build our little meguca nation.

What the fuck else could this be? She knows, we know that she knows, she know that we know that she knows, and she already told us to quit beating around the bush. If she was just hinting at things I'd be fine, but she did everything she could to establish her bona-fides and get straight to the point and requested that we do the same.
Why would the LARPing explanation require secret fingernail tattoo parlours? Why could we not have got them at real tattoo parlours? Why are you assuming she's even noticed the fingernail tattoos, and not just the rings? Why is "magical girls" not a possible polite euphemism for lesbianism? Why is saying this:
Seriously, say our initial response is "To avoid potential misunderstandings, before I respond could you clarify what exactly you mean by 'magical girls'?" If she's read in on magic, that's all but screaming "YES YOU'RE RIGHT IT'S TRUE JUST LET ME MAKE SURE I'M NOT ABOUT TO SCREW EVERYTHING UP", and if she's not it's kind of a weird answer but she doesn't know about magic so assuming she did would have been so much worse.
offensive in any way?

You've kind of just said "no she'll get mad" with no real basis. She's presumably not an idiot, why would us taking an obvious step to confirm she's already read in on magic and we're not about to break the masquerade be offensive?

But we want to tell her, so preventing a misunderstanding is an impediment to our goal.

If she mean't something else and is surprised to have hit upon the truth, well that's just an icebreaker.
We should still tell Hitomi first, as dropping this on her without any warning would be pretty rude.

EDIT: A word
 
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Oh hai i didn't see you there mami
You grimace. "I... well, the information I woke up with could only have come from magic of some kind, I... think. I don't think I have an actual identity to uncover."

"Oh," Mami says, golden eyes flicking up to meet your gaze. "I..." she bites her lip. "I see."

"Yeah," you say. "Might as well prepare for that eventuality, I figure."

Mami nods. "Alright," she says, smiling softly at you and letting her head droop back to lean on your shoulder
We've already told her.
 
On the other hand, immediately confirming something referenced relatively vaguely demonstrates loose lips and a lack of maturity and forethought, all three of which are very important both in friends and in business partners.
Keeping Kyuubey's secret isn't our job. Not keeping it shouldn't reflect on our ability to keep secrets we give a fuck about.
It becomes lying if she indicates that she doesn't know. Or do you have a plan for asking Hitomi for permission that doesn't involve lying to her mom's face first?
 
Are we really arguing about this? Make certain we're on the same page. Just because she's not meguca doesn't mean that the info hazard rules aren't in play. Make sure she's saying what we think she's saying and try to feel out what exactly she knows. Decide what to do from there.
 
If there's a cabal of muggle lesbian teenage girl larpers running around with fingernail tattoos and soul-gem ring analogues with a sufficiently strong community to remain perfectly consistent across generations all the way to wherever Hitomom went to high school, I want to find them, because they're about as good at opsec and black finance as the goddamn Illuminati and we need them to help us build our little meguca nation.
Or, you know, she overheard some magical girls talking and they explained it away by claiming to LARPers, and she just assumed that it's still a popular subculture. Polyhedral dice and miniatures haven't changed so much in a generation that D&D players from 30 years ago wouldn't still recognize D&D players today.

It's highly probable that she knows about meguca, but your attempts to dismiss the alternatives are greatly exaggerating the circumstances involved.


There is no reason for her to be offended if we take a moment to confirm her meaning before explaining everything. If anything, she should be fully expecting it. She's prodding at something that's usually kept secret. She shouldn't expect us to immediately want to share everything.


Yeah, unless we have actually straight up told Mami "We are probably a Wish construct," then no way as hell we're telling that to anyone else in front of Mami.
There's no particular reason to tell Hitomom that we think we were made by a wish. It's neither relevant nor any of her business, and we haven't even told all our friends yet.
 
It becomes lying if she indicates that she doesn't know. Or do you have a plan for asking Hitomi for permission that doesn't involve lying to her mom's face first?
If she indicates she doesn't know, then we aren't directly lying - not volunteering the information is exactly as bad is it usually is when it comes to keeping a world-spanning masquerade intact. Are you advocating for screaming it from the rooftops? I would find out what she thinks it means, respond accordingly, have the conversation with Hitomi, then come back and say "funny coincidence, you know how we were talking about 'magical girls' earlier...?"
 
You've kind of just said "no she'll get mad" with no real basis. She's presumably not an idiot, why would us taking an obvious step to confirm she's already read in on magic and we're not about to break the masquerade be offensive?
The issue is that she just broke the masquerade for us and told us to get to the point. There are additional indications that she prefers straight talk. She has requested a particular climate for this discussion and I would strongly prefer to respect that, particularly because any attempt to clarify is going to come across as insulting the demonstration of the situation she just conferred.

SHE FUCKING TOLD US SHE KNOWS ABOUT MAGICAL GIRLS. WHAT MORE DO YOU FUCKING WANT. What do you expect her response to be? 'Cause I'm expecting something like "Yeah, I'm totally talking about the other magical girls. No, you idiots, I just told you that I know, now quit wasting my time and promise me you're not going to hurt my little girl".
The wording here is of concern, since it is being rather condescending to Hitomi's mom and implying she is a child. "an adult" is a better phrase/term.
Fine, yes, I chose a word wrongly. We need to be an adult.
 
God the wait for this next update is going to be torture. And not just because I forcast this argument about Hitomom's relationship with secrets and the truth to last that long.
I hope you update fast this round Firn.

Also, khfan just made me think: wouldn't it be a pretty shocking twist if we were made from a wish - Mami's wish, responding to her inability to keep friends around like she wanted?
 
Are we really arguing about this? Make certain we're on the same page. Just because she's not meguca doesn't mean that the info hazard rules aren't in play. Make sure she's saying what we think she's saying and try to feel out what exactly she knows. Decide what to do from there.

What info hazard rules even are there? We don't have to keep it a secret from anyone if we don't want to, and we were going to tell her at some point anyway.

There is no reason for her to be offended if we take a moment to confirm her meaning before explaining everything. If anything, she should be fully expecting it. She's prodding at something that's usually kept secret. She shouldn't expect us to immediately want to share everything.

It's not a matter of being "offended," it's a matter leaving her in suspense when she's concerned and there's no point to not telling her anyway.
 
Unless, you know, we go ahead and share we were planning to do this, anyway.
Suggested scenario for accomplishing that:
[] Tell her that makes your debate about how and whether to get in contact with adults easier, transform your soul gem for confirmation.


If there's a secret community of muggle lesbian teenage girl larpers running around with fingernail tattoos and soul-gem ring analogues with a sufficiently strong community to remain perfectly consistent across generations and with sufficient geographic extent to include Hitomom's high school, I want to find them, because they're about as good at opsec and black finance as the goddamn Illuminati and we need them to help us build our little meguca nation. Or just co-opt it, they've already done all the hard work.

What the fuck else could this be? She knows, we know that she knows, she know that we know that she knows, and she already told us to quit beating around the bush. If she was just hinting at things I'd be fine, but she did everything she could to establish her bona-fides and get straight to the point and requested that we do the same.
Vebyast, I don't even believe she's making a mistake myself, but you're heavily over-complicating it. The scenario here isn't "lesbians call themsleves magical girls" it's "Mrs Shizuki believes lesbians call themselves magical girls"

Which requires either A: The magical girl community culturally influencing the lesbian community, or B: Mrs. Shizuki, in her youth, mistaking magical girls for being just lesbians.
 
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