Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
I wish there were some way of diagnosing what was wrong with us before we contracted...
No fuck off Kyuubey I was being Facetious.
No fuck off Kyuubey I was being Facetious.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
Come to think of it, I don't think we ever fixed it, whatever 'it' was. While becoming a magical girl does give you an immortal body, it doesn't seem to automagically fix everything that's wrong with you unless you actually wish for it: Mami and Kaoru were healed by their wishes (to cling to life after a car crash and to help everyone that was affected by the accident that shattered her knee, respectively), but Homura had to heal her poor eyesight and weak heart manually as she became more competent with magic use. Alternately, it's possible that it only heals explicit injuries.
If Sabrina's condition was 'created without several important organs', it's entirely possible that we've just been blithely ignoring it/subconsciously shutting off the pain, due to already knowing that we'd become a lich as soon as we contracted and having expected our wish to heal us, whether or not it actually did.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We need to vist a healer mage.
Miss Sabrina... you lack several organs.
Mami: eeehhhhh D :
Sabrina: Fix me nao D :
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yuma to the rescue!
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
"Did you know your body is composed of misaligned chunks?"
"That explains so much, really!"
"And your brain is tattooed with the word 'Abnormal'. Why would that even be a classification?"
"That explains so much, really!"
"And your brain is tattooed with the word 'Abnormal'. Why would that even be a classification?"
- Location
- United States
There's a Young Frankenstein reference there. I can practically taste it.
Or this could be the timeline where Rebellion was supposed to happen: Madokami ascending, the universe changed to accommodate the new divine edict, poor Homura getting the Friendzone speech, etc. Only this time the Divine Wish has changed, so Witches still exist... the upshot is that instead of a Madoka Valhalla for the girls who died, the theme of karmic destiny itself has changed to make fixing everything in the real world possible.
I mean, that's sort of what we've been assuming this whole time, right?
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The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
"Turns out your real name was Abby the whole time."
"What? How do you know that?"
"It's written right here on your brain! See? 'Abby Normal'.".
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Not really? I mean, alternate post-series timeline MAYBE, but there's no "Friendzone" speech unless the countless 'Dokas get Gattai'd, and this 'Doka's presence mean they didn't (because she had to Ascend to unify all of her selves, and we'd be lacking a 'Doka if that had happened).
Besides that? Homura's fine, by Homura standards.
Homura would NOT be fine if that had happened...which, I suppose, is also a point against this being post-Rebellion, but Homura's Memory Manipulation could sort of explain that.
Hmm...good point, about Homura. I tend to assume her heart condition is considered part of her natural "healthy" state, but the eyesight...that's an injury, technically. That should have been healed.
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Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
I thought eyesight problems was due to misadjustment. My own eyesight is great at picking out tiny details,(like where a birds feet are as it flies) but distant objects are a blur.
Heart Conditions covers a lot of various ailments, but due to Homura living this long with it, it's likely stress damage causing her to be sick, even if the stress damage itself is due to an undersized/powered heart.
Edit: Even if becoming a Meguca doesn't heal the heart, it should reduce the severity of failure states, and if she's physically enhanced should compensate for the natural weakness in the heart, even if no healing is performed on the existing damage.
Heart Conditions covers a lot of various ailments, but due to Homura living this long with it, it's likely stress damage causing her to be sick, even if the stress damage itself is due to an undersized/powered heart.
Edit: Even if becoming a Meguca doesn't heal the heart, it should reduce the severity of failure states, and if she's physically enhanced should compensate for the natural weakness in the heart, even if no healing is performed on the existing damage.
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BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
WAIT WE'VE BEEN DATING A DEAD GIRL THIS ENTIRE TIMEI now want to show this to Mami and just go "yeah this is basically what you look like."
WHY DID NOBODY TELL ME! No wonder Homura thinks we have brain damage!
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- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
WAIT WE'VE BEEN DATING A DEAD GIRL THIS ENTIRE TIME
Technically, aren't all Meguca dead girls?
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
So having the exact words of Madoka's wish has got me thinking.
It's possible that things aren't as they seem, that Madoka's wish was made later (let's say, post-rebellion) and Homura remembered it in place of the canon-Madokami wish.
But what if everything is exactly as it seems?
I'd like to lay out a hypothesis to that end. It's one I've dabbled with before, but I might as well do it the justice of taking it seriously.
Let's say that the source is that things in timeline canon PMMM/PMAS-1 go just a little differently. We've said that perhaps Kyuubey veers left instead of right and drops the loop and drops the potentialbomb on Madoka instead of Homura. So Madoka takes advantage of it.
Instead of letting just her own power accrete across timelines, she turns that accretion to her own ends. She's not a girl who thinks highly of herself so she makes a girl she can think highly of. A hero she can trust. Perhaps she uses Walpurgisnacht as a basis. Perhaps if recent discord discussion is anything to go by, she take inspiration from a favorite game or story. Perhaps something else entirely.
Either way, Madoka isn't just letting the karmic accretion happen, she's making it happen, and letting it empower into a agent for her will. But consider how for a moment: Why metaknowledge in the form of a story? Well you can't fix things if you don't know what's going wrong. But if it's a story, rather than a history, then it doesn't matter if things go wrong. No one is there to be hurt by failure.
(It may be a tragedy, but it'll all be part of the script.)
The downside is that a history is dense, rich with detail, and convoluted with a vast weight of oddities and exceptions, but story will focus on its themes and narrative even, especially, if it's well written. Of course, if a well written story takes liberties, a poorly written story *cough Asunaro cough* may well be just plain wrong.
(On an optional side note, if we want to be really fun and deep down the rabbit hole: If there's a story then someone must write it. And Madoka does have roughly universe-creation levels of power. Thus we could say that, A la Douglas Adams, there is an Earth that exists as a computer, not to calculate a single answer, but to produce an approximation of a history and solve the problem of a world, without repeating its core tragedies. Her universe, less magical girls, producing the stories of her magical girls and their failures.
Which neatly explains that the PMMM side stories that are badly written are so because they had bad writers. The inaccuracies that result are simply the failure of the engine to perfectly reproduce the world it was made to analyze.)
Regardless of whether that ontologically paradoxical subsection is canon, perhaps that's why the metaknowledge came as it did. It's a story with divine power behind it, made to show how everything can go wrong. There need not be anything real to it, but its memories serve as the anchor for power, to fall into a freshly made blank slate just for that purpose.
Of course, if you make a time resetting wish, you also increase karmic potential for the people you made it for. And as we ourselves told Oriko, you don't just wish for the whole world. There's a person that matters in there somewhere.
As Madoka's best friend, Sayaka would have been very close to the epicenter of the wish. As Madoka's protector, who's fought for her a hundred times and more, with Madoka now realizing that, Homura would also have been close to the epicenter. And it's only natural that those memories would end up falling on them too.
Which would explain some of Sayaka's oddness and Homura's hint of recognition when poked with references. Both of them would have been hit heavily by Karmic sideblast and so could easily half-remember things from worlds that never actually happened.
The whole thing needn't even be a process that's completed in a single instant. If the meta-information is being created over time then it's natural that it would be continually fed to its recipient(s) over time.
--------
This next line of supposition is more of a separate hypothesis in its own right, but it's worth considering that Sabrina's creation may not be the only effect of Madoka's wish. Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. For the possibility of a perfect success.
And if someone's dead, saving them presents something of a problem. So with that in mind, let me run through some oddities.
If you've read Oriko: Sadness Prayer, there's a magical girl who should be a student in Shirome, Asako Komaki. By all implication, she should have been a magical girl before Oriko contracted and she would have been killed by Kirika in canon, as a result of Kirika's wish and how she met Oriko. In PMAS, we see Shirome has two potentials. No magical girls. It's unlikely
Likewise both Sadness Prayer and Symmetry Diamond imply that Yuuki Sasa has been a magical girl for some time. In Symmetry Diamond she's seeking Mitakihara after hearing about it's high witch population and In Sadness Prayer in particular she's from Kasamino and arrives after starting a mess that drives her out of there. (In the latter, she's been to Mitakihara before)
We try to reach Kazusa and, yup, she's still alive too.
Of course, that's a little off: By all indication Homura has a rough idea of when the girls should be contracting and at a glance it seems to line up with what we've seen in PMAS. We'll what we've seen of Sasa anyways. (Though it's worth asking about if we want to.)
If something is up with Homura's past loop memories, then it's interesting because today we bring up about Corbeau and oh, wouldn't you know it, there's a girl like her in/named Osaka. (What do you want to bet her (Sur)name is Karasu?)
It makes sense, to a certain degree: If you can't go back and save everyone, then perhaps you can bring everyone here to be saved.
Here the disappearance of Kuroki Matsuko makes sense too: Everyone has come here to be saved... and if not by Sabrina's hand, then what's to say there aren't others too? (Though not necessarily for the better. Magic is double sided after all and a creating a savior may result in an equal and opposite villain even before she wishes.)
It also explains Kyuubey's disappearance early on in PMAS if all of a sudden there is a giant cartload of potential magical girls to deal with and he was running to and fro examining them all, especially if it happened after a period of drought where girls who could and would have contracted just... didn't happen to do so for a while, for various reasons.
My guess is that we shored ourselves up with grief control, which is why we dry heaved when we considered witching out Homura (As what I assume would be a gross rejection of our wish.) We lost control of our prosthetic internal organs for a moment.
And it might explain why our next cleansing, seconds later, looked like this:
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Well, the time loops put the traveler back where they were at the time the loop started. So we wouldn't have wound up in Homura's room anyway. Of course, there's still a few missing days in there between the start of the loop and our first memory....Still missing why we ended up in the middle of the street several days after the loop started instead of with Homura in the hospital room
Undead. Crucial distinction.
- Location
- Texas
Honestly, I think Homura has a pretty rational reason for keeping secrets. That reason is named Mami Tomoe.
Going purely off the TV show, Mami is basically a terrifying threat to Homura. She's personally extremely powerful and dangerous, and her abilities casually no-sell Homura's, even when Mami doesn't know what Homura's abilities are.
Seriously, if you look at the Charlotte fight, Mami is about to go in after Sayaka, and Homura shows up to Homura at her, but in a helpful way. Mama wraps her in ribbons, completely immobilizing her and preventing her from using her time powers, before Homura, already prepared to fight, can even react. And then leaves her hanging like a piñata, unattended, and still unable to escape. That's when Mami doesn't have the slightest clue what Homura's magic does or how the buckler works.
And in the time loops, Homura directly gets to see Mami flip out and start shooting soul gems. And, in that instance, again, Mami casually and effortlessly disables her completely, while killing Kyouko with a surprise attack. Homura only survives because she was the second target on Mami's list, and because Madoka pulled out her own surprise attack to kill Mami. (I would actually argue that instance was the absolute closest we ever saw Homura come to a surprise Bad End in the show. In almost any other situation, she can rely on her ability to call a do-over, and does, even against Walpurgis, but there, in that subway, it was pure chance that she didn't die, and she knows it.)
Basically, if Mami wants you dead, and gets a surprise round, you're dead. And almost nobody else can say that about Homura. And Mami is known to potentially flip out and go murder-happy in the wrong circumstances. So Homura can't take any chances around her.
In the show, Homura noticeably gets more cooperative and talkative after Mami dies. I don't think she wanted Mami dead, but I do think she feels a lot safer when Mami is dead.
And in PMAS, Mami is still alive.
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
I always considered Magical Girls as still Living. Their bodies don't die between Wishing and becoming a Magical Girl, so they have never been a "dead" to become "undead" from. Although, I'd consider Magical Girls that had to recover their bodies from essentially a Post-Mortum state to be actually undead, Girls like Masami for example who was sorta just a skeleton when we first met her. But otherwise, they are just girls with Phylacteries
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
Depends on how fatal it is when an Incubator stabs you in the chest and tears out your very soul.
Alternately, the excruciating and all-encompassing pain associated with contracts could be the body being atomized by the explosive release of negentropic energy and being instantaneously/simultaneously reconstructed by Sufficiently Advanced Technology™, during which any changes implied by the wish are applied to the body.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
That seems like it would be a massive blunder on his part. Telling Madoka about it seems like it would vastly decrease, rather than increase, her willingness to contract, much as the witchbomb did. Knowing that each repetition is exacerbating the problem only gives her more reason to try to avoid making more loops necessary. Or worse, to do what she did at the end of the series and try to use her wish to simultaneously end the loops and deny Kyubey his payday.
The potentialbomb is really only an effective weapon if used against Homura, because she equates potential with suffering and it gives her cause to blame herself for everything. Against anyone else, it just doesn't have the same emotional impact. If Kyubey instead told Madoka, he would just be throwing away his shot... or worse, shooting himself in the foot.
I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that the vagueness of her wish (as compared to the specificity of her wish to become Madokami) indicates that she probably knew much less about the situation than she did in canon.
That said, other aspects of your theory do have merit. We know that a Madowish can retcon history, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that the changes we're seeing in the PMAS timeline were created by her wish. It might be worth trying to see if there are any discrepancies between Homura's knowledge of past timelines and this one that predate anything we could have effected since our arrival.
(That's also one of the more unique uses of the Literary Agent Hypothesis that I've ever seen.
)That's a philosophical question on par with asking if using a transporter in Star Trek means that you've been vaporized and a perfect duplicate has taken your place.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Homuquest
She's brought up some bad memories, once again. She can't help it, you suppose, knowing just enough to be curious but not enough not to ask. Still, you'll reassure her. "You're not like her. I met a girl like that once..." You'd been hopeful, at first, when you'd heard those rumors. What a joke. "Osaka." And hadn't that been another nightmare?
She leans back a bit, slightly startled. "Huh, interesting. But... nah, I'm not too worried about that." You suppose she wouldn't be. She knows her intentions better than anyone. Still, this time the risk is finally paying off, for you. "Just amused by the coincidence, you know? But... yeah. My point is that my knowledge is weird, I suppose."
Certainly, it's unusual. Could Her Wish really have done this? You're still waiting for the other shoe to drop, really, but for now, you'll try to support her. Fate has been kind enough to throw a powerful ally your way, for once, and you wont squander that if you can possibly help it. "It's accurate enough," you point out.
"I haven't been let down on anything crucial yet," she concedes, tension smoothing out of her frame. "And hey. I'm here. I know what's been happening around here."
Still, if she's becoming concerned about the accuracy of her knowledge... "Are there many divergences from what you know?" you ask.
"Eh," she says, waggling her hand. "Yes, and no. We're blazing a new path here, in many ways - as far as I know, I'm entirely new." You nod in response to the implicit question. "That said... no. The knowledge I have matches up very well for you and Mami and Madoka and Sayaka even Oriko and Kirika. The whole mess in Asunaro is essentially the first time that what I know has really slipped up."
She's been strangely preoccupied with that city, lately, and you curse yourself for not having investigated it in previous loops. All you can contribute is speculation. Although, given how convoluted things apparently got there even without you there to warp destiny further, perhaps nonintervention was for the best. Still, a thought strikes you. "They created something that blocked out the existence of the Incubator, correct?" She furrows her brows, considering. "Could it be something like that, affecting your knowledge?"
"I... don't think so," she finally says. "It's possible, but truthfully, I'd personally chalk it up to Asunaro being weird."
Tactfully, you refrain from pointing out the meaninglessness of that response, instead merely demuring. "It sounds like it."
"Bleh," she finally says, leaning back and staring into your grey tinted sky, leaving her thoughts unspoken. The comforting silence envelops everything, leaving just you and someone you have placed your trust in, for the first time in a long while.
"Hey, Homura?" she asks, some indeterminate time later. There's something different about her tone. You look over to her, gaze sharpening.
"Thanks for helping me be here," she says, smiling faintly at you. "I rather like existing."
What?
"You know, if you hadn't looped, and Madoka hadn't made her Wish, I wouldn't be here?" she explains, slowly.
What?
You... suppose she's right? Maybe? If that's even what actually happened. "You're... welcome?" You slowly say, wondering what this is leading up to.
She giggles. "I suppose that makes you and Madoka my mothers. Mado-kaa-san has a certain ring to it, don't you think?"
what
but
seeing your incomprehension, the edge of her smile turns slightly impish
no what
she looks like she's about to laugh
you
what?
[] Write-in how to respond (including number of social counters spent)
-[] Leave her in stopped time to get your bearings first
[] Guns can probably solve this problem, somehow
[] Abandon this timeline immediately
-[] Having a child with Madoka, though...
[] Write-in
=====
Please treat your new daughteru well. She would be devastated if you reacted poorly, probably.
Venture Co. said:
Ayanami said:
Away Team said:
Ayanami said:
Cinders Fall said:
THE MOON said:Welp. We need to tread carefully, here. This needs a delicate touch, but, looking at the first page, we've only got five social counters left. Time to get cracking on somePlease treat your new daughteru well. She would be devastated if you reacted poorly, probably.goodnot horrible write-ins, to try and recoup those losses.
As an outline, maybe something like:
[ ] Accept her thanks.
[ ] Reassure her that she's made good progress, and answer any questions she asks you.
[ ] Point out the positive progress she's made.
?
Sohryu said:
Canine Supreme said:
Venture Co. said:
Sohryu said:Venture Co. said:
Okay, so we definitely need to tie it into Madoka somehow, we can't deal with all this socializing with this few social counters, since you all keep insisting on blowing through our whole stock on arguments that will obviously fail. Luckily, we've been given an opening, given how Sabrina tied her idea of her origins to her.
SunsetAurora said:
Venture Co. said:
THE MOON said:
Supreme Canine said:
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
That seems like it would be a massive blunder on his part. Telling Madoka about it seems like it would vastly decrease, rather than increase, her willingness to contract, much as the witchbomb did. Knowing that each repetition is exacerbating the problem only gives her more reason to try to avoid making more loops necessary. Or worse, to do what she did at the end of the series and try to use her wish to simultaneously end the loops and deny Kyubey his payday.
The potentialbomb is really only an effective weapon if used against Homura, because she equates potential with suffering and it gives her cause to blame herself for everything. Against anyone else, it just doesn't have the same emotional impact. If Kyubey instead told Madoka, he would just be throwing away his shot... or worse, shooting himself in the foot.
I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that the vagueness of her wish (as compared to the specificity of her wish to become Madokami) indicates that she probably knew much less about the situation than she did in canon.
That said, other aspects of your theory do have merit. We know that a Madowish can retcon history, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that the changes we're seeing in the PMAS timeline were created by her wish. It might be worth trying to see if there are any discrepancies between Homura's knowledge of past timelines and this one that predate anything we could have effected since our arrival.
(That's also one of the more unique uses of the Literary Agent Hypothesis that I've ever seen.
I've already posted several plausible ideas just a few pages ago on how "Madoka got the Potentialbomb instead" makes perfect sense, go read them.
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
Redshirt I think You broke the code. Clearly EVERYONE is secretly being run by their own quest in some alternate universe, which all converge into this super cross dimensional quest we observe through Sabrina.
I thank you for your work in proving Multiverse Theory and wish you good luck collaborating with your cross dimensional variants. Godspeed.
I thank you for your work in proving Multiverse Theory and wish you good luck collaborating with your cross dimensional variants. Godspeed.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
So far we've got: Sabrina Quest, the other Sabrina Quest, Sakura Quest, Mumi Quest, and now Homura Quest.
BlackoutSampler
So Easily Forgotten
It's obvious that Oriko Quest is just Firn's secret Self-Insert Fanfiction that he hides in his old shame folder.