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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Since we're going to meet Asunaro girls, will we be telling them their stories, of their descent into madness?

Since we halt their path to reverse Witching for now, how would we get them back to experimenting?
We can get shortcuts out of Rionna Mag Aoidh and Sabrina but the Asunaro girls might not have the mindset to dive into mad scientist level without Kazusa death giving them the iron will.

I just wondering if Kazusa is willing to volunteer in order to create Kazumi up on hearing her story, I mean you don't see anyone volunteer to clone their selves but Kazusa's kind nature and the story might give it impulse in meeting her clone.

I do feel clones might in some way aid in reverse Witching even if doing the experiments is harsh on those involve since you need something physical with animate effect instead of just building off inanimate objects like soul gem or Grief.
I guess doing the process once with ethical control might find a way to reverse Witching.
 
So thinking about Homura, about why she would take the Potential Bomb so badly, and I think these points are already out there, so hopefully I'm not bringing anything new:

Homura's Wish was to Protect Madoka (and means).

Homura's failed to protect Madoka repeatedly. Again and again she fails, and she blames herself for it, but also blames Walpurgisnacht, who kills or causes Madoka to Wish, and Kyuubey, who's number one goal is to cause Madoka to Wish (for some reason unknown to Homura; she knows Madoka's Potential is humongous, but she doesn't know why).

Homura's role and goal is to Protect Madoka. Every time she fails, it counts. Her determination might be inhumane, but she suffers every time, and she can't forgive herself for failing Madoka every time. Her hope is that by succeding once, that'll give meaning to every death before.

Now give Homura the information she's the one who's increased Madoka's Potential.

She's the one who causes Kyuubey to target Madoka.

She's the one who indirectly causes the clusterfuck of strategic bomb drops, givings of misinformation, general plotting Kyuubey does, because while he might use meguca as a matter of course, Homura looping in causes Kyuubey to target Madoka.

Not only can Homura not undo this (as she has never won, she has no way to confirm she can win), but every time she loops, she makes the problem worse, because Madoka will become an even bigger target for Kyuubey.

Homura does not understand winning.

You can't tell her that Sabrina's here so this time it's gonna work because, in Homura's mind, there are simply no examples of winning the loops. It's not something that exists in this context. It's a pipe dream she's been holding onto for dear life, but nothing more.

Basically, from her perspective, Homura Did Everything Wrong. It's not Walpurgis' fault that Madoka's suffered and died nearly a hundred times, nor is it Kyuubey's fault, nor Sayaka's, Mami's, Oriko's.

It's all on her.
 
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Well, we either find dewitching Ethically, or not at all, if I have any say. We do not want to set a precedent for a Greater Good.
 
The methods are just as important as the goals. The ends don't justify the means.
 
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Jrin said:
Since we're going to meet Asunaro girls, will we be telling them their stories, of their descent into madness?
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Why in the fuck would we ever do this? Are you insane? "Hey guys did you know without my intervention Michiru would turn into a witch and you'd all go insane and kill each other? Lol good thing I'm here, right? Oh by the way magical girls turn into witches. Spoilers~!"
 
Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me if they find out their canon fates...
 
AuraTwilight said:
Why in the fuck would we ever do this? Are you insane? "Hey guys did you know without my intervention Michiru would turn into a witch and you'd all go insane and kill each other? Lol good thing I'm here, right? Oh by the way magical girls turn into witches. Spoilers~!"
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To explain why we got the idea that they can with experiments to reverse Witching?
Maybe a select number, honesty we have to say the truth and Michiru is here to help contain the fallout in order to help with dewitching process. We could turn it into a tale Sabrina heard from somewhere.

And I want Kazumi to live!!!!
 
Just work with them. Surely they can figure things out?

They're better off not knowing of the madness of canon events.
 
Creating Kazumi Subaru is totally a worthwhile goal. I mean, for kicks.

It just doesn't intersect with any other of our goals, as we're not gonna make Kazumi witch just so we can create Kazumi.

We just need to, once we're done with everything else, SCIENCE! cloning!

Kazumi would love having a clone, I bet.
 
Onmur said:
So thinking about Homura, about why she would take the Potential Bomb so badly, and I think these points are already out there, so hopefully I'm not bringing anything new:

Homura's Wish was to Protect Madoka (and means).

Homura's failed to protect Madoka repeatedly. Again and again she fails, and she blames herself for it, but also blames Walpurgisnacht, who kills or causes Madoka to Wish, and Kyuubey, who's number one goal is to cause Madoka to Wish (for some reason unknown to Homura; she knows Madoka's Potential is humongous, but she doesn't know why).

Homura's roal and goal is to Protect Madoka. Every time she fails, it counts. Her determination might be inhumane, but she suffers every time, and she can't forgive herself for failing Madoka every time. Her hope is that by succeding once, that'll give meaning to every death before.

Now give Homura the information she's the one who's increased Madoka's Potential.

She's the one who causes Kyuubey to target Madoka.

She's the one who indirectly causes the clusterfuck of strategic bomb drops, givings of misinformation, general plotting Kyuubey does, because while he might use meguca as a matter of course, Homura looping in causes Kyuubey to target Madoka.

Not only can Homura not undo this (as she has never won, she has no way to confirm she can win), but every time she loops, she makes the problem worse, because Madoka will become an even bigger target for Kyuubey.

Homura does not understand winning.

You can't tell her that Sabrina's here so this time it's gonna work because, in Homura's mind, there are simply no examples of winning the loops. It's not something that exists in this context. It's a pipe dream she's been holding onto for dear life, but nothing more.

Basically, from her perspective, Homura Did Everything Wrong. It's not Walpurgis' fault that Madoka's suffered and died nearly a hundred times, nor is it Kyuubey's fault, nor Sayaka's, Mami's, Oriko's.

It's all on her.
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It's farked up. Yeah. She'd need some kind of out. Something she could do to give it all meaning or some chance to forge new meaning. Which would mean serious discussion about endgame possibilities to have any chance of saving her from Despair.

Madoka Safety Scenario 1: Sabrina's schemes bear sufficient fruit that Walpurgis is defeated, Madoka contracting never becomes necessary in the process of achieving those schemes, and eventually Kyubey ceases offering because reasons(Sabrina-induced system change making her irrelevant, death of all incubators, whatever).
Perception of Homura's reaction to the possibility: Dubious, psychologically incapable of accepting.

Madoka Safety Scenario 2: Madoka bootstraps herself to godhood with some variant of the canon wish.
Perception of Homura's reaction to the possibility: Unacceptable

Madoka Safety Scenario 3: Madoka makes a wish that makes either her or the entire magical girl population self-sustaining.
Perception of Homura's reaction to the possibility(Barring Potentialbombing): Unacceptable.

Scenario 3 though... if we potentialbomb but mention the out that creates, how it ensures Madoka continues existing and the planet continues existing if it works, she may be suggestible enough to go for it. It'd be farked up but it might work. Her time stop is an ability of sufficient exoticness/utility that unless Madoka wished specifically for something like that, she wouldn't be able to reproduce it. Meaning that Homura could still be useful to Madoka. Homura could still protect Madoka. Madoka asked Homura to stop her from being tricked by Kyubey.

Combine whatever wish Madoka might go with if we have a brainstorming session with her with the sheer amount of Hax concentrated in Mitakihara already and we would all be safe. Even if a Madowish led to the entire Magical Girl population becoming self-sustaining that forced Kyubey to go for economies of scale, with all the upheaval that might create due to it basically being a singularity event, we would be safe because the lot of us are that utterly hax.
 
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What would be ideal for now, would be if Homu would actually consider Sabrina as a something of value that has come from her loops.

Because it would start giving the loops meaning.

So far Homu's been looping for so long, causing Madoka's death so many times, yet her hands don't hold anything.

If she could see Sabrina in that light, then Sabrina would also be someone to protect, but as an achievement, rather than as a burden.
 
Onmur said:
What would be ideal for now, would be if Homu would actually consider Sabrina as a something of value that has come from her loops.

Because it would start giving the loops meaning.

So far Homu's been looping for so long, causing Madoka's death so many times, yet her hands don't hold anything.

If she could see Sabrina in that light, then Sabrina would also be someone to protect, but as an achievement, rather than as a burden.
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That's a good angle too. Homura's looping may have enabled Madoka to bootstrap Sabrina into existence, and made a more through solution to the situation of all magical girls possible than could be achieved by a single high potential wish with full knowledge of the system.
 
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I wonder how that happened. What could she possibly wish for that caused that?

"I wish I were at two places at once!"

:V
 
UbeOne said:
What could she possibly wish for that caused that?
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Probably a similar wish to the one that the self-duplicating girl from Ishinomaki made. Though it'd be hard to get the full effect of being in two places at once when the two bodies could never be more than a hundred meters from each other. You can't have one go to school and the other stay home, for instance.
 
UbeOne said:
I wonder how that happened. What could she possibly wish for that caused that?
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Maybe it's a girl who knew someone with a twin sister, and was really jealous of how close they are and the fun they have. Who then said "I wish I have a twin sister too!"

But due to factors like a.) poorly worded wish b.) insufficient 'potential' c.) both or something else entirely, instead of rewriting the past so she always had a twin sister at birth, the wish just gave her a clone of herself sharing the same soul gem.

Or instead of jealousy it could be a girl who had a twin who died years ago too.
 
Onmur said:
So thinking about Homura, about why she would take the Potential Bomb so badly, and I think these points are already out there, so hopefully I'm not bringing anything new:

Homura's Wish was to Protect Madoka (and means).

Homura's failed to protect Madoka repeatedly. Again and again she fails, and she blames herself for it, but also blames Walpurgisnacht, who kills or causes Madoka to Wish, and Kyuubey, who's number one goal is to cause Madoka to Wish (for some reason unknown to Homura; she knows Madoka's Potential is humongous, but she doesn't know why).

Homura's role and goal is to Protect Madoka. Every time she fails, it counts. Her determination might be inhumane, but she suffers every time, and she can't forgive herself for failing Madoka every time. Her hope is that by succeding once, that'll give meaning to every death before.

Now give Homura the information she's the one who's increased Madoka's Potential.

She's the one who causes Kyuubey to target Madoka.

She's the one who indirectly causes the clusterfuck of strategic bomb drops, givings of misinformation, general plotting Kyuubey does, because while he might use meguca as a matter of course, Homura looping in causes Kyuubey to target Madoka.

Not only can Homura not undo this (as she has never won, she has no way to confirm she can win), but every time she loops, she makes the problem worse, because Madoka will become an even bigger target for Kyuubey.

Homura does not understand winning.

You can't tell her that Sabrina's here so this time it's gonna work because, in Homura's mind, there are simply no examples of winning the loops. It's not something that exists in this context. It's a pipe dream she's been holding onto for dear life, but nothing more.

Basically, from her perspective, Homura Did Everything Wrong. It's not Walpurgis' fault that Madoka's suffered and died nearly a hundred times, nor is it Kyuubey's fault, nor Sayaka's, Mami's, Oriko's.

It's all on her.
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I suppose it's no wonder she named herself a Devil.
 
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