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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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The Phoenixian said:
Perhaps that might work, but would it truly be better? Consider that the hope that magical girls use fuels their wishes and magic, and so from that perspective it and its effects remain part of human society. The grief and despair of witches, on the other hand may affect humanity for a time, but all indication is that it is eventually carted off-world.

Exactly how subtle and far reaching the effects of that are is up for debate. It may well be that the effects of magic and curses don't last a moment beyond the use of their magic for something concrete and physical. Nevertheless, PMMM's humanity has been on a generally upwards path, and it's worth considering that that may be because they exist in a system where grief slowly leaves the planet while hope remains circulating within the system. (and perhaps things that touch karma of a certain charge become imbued with it)
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Not "hope" exactly. More like...You know how Witches are basically made out of a story? This new form of energy would be those stories having a happy ending.

And i was thinking that it would also effect Witches. Like, Witches are either creatures made out of someones "Bad end" and a hell of a lot of Grief, or someone changed by their magic in a way that means that there isn't much difference. So what do you think would happen when that Grief became something else?

I mean it's not like they wouldn't also use the Grief for their work, it's still fuel and they have systems set up to use it already, but it wouldn't be optimal as a primary system any more. It couldn't be.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Can we get some of SV's Advocates in here? This is a serious allegation and both sides of the issue should be carefully argued by trained internet professionals. :V
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I would, but even in jest I don't believe Firnagzen would appreciate it.

Onmur said:
I really didn't want to get rid of the last line, just in case... we forget about it as we're wont to do. :p

Please everyone keep in mind that we need to:

- Call O&K 'The Kures'.
- Talk with Homu... about a bajillon things at this point.

[X] Quietly encourage and reassure Mami.
-[X] Avoid negative conversational turns. Help Mami think positive.
-[X] Cover for Mami if necessary.
-[X] Extra attention to her Gem.
-[X] Let them chat as long as they need.
[X] When appropriate:
-[X] Introduce everyone.
-[X] Explain about your helping meguca thing. And your friends making thing.
-[X] Arrange for the Asunaro visit. Time and place. Let her know how fast you travel, specially in emergencies.
-[X] Let Kazusa know it might be more than just Mami and Sabrina visiting.
-[X] Say goodbye to Kazusa.
[X] (Have Kirika) Check if Umika's book is out already.
[X] Bring back the Privacy Device.
[X] Discuss who's going to Asunaro, paying special attention to Mami's wishes.
-[X] Explain Hijiri's memory/mind magics: You'd like to have Kirika (and Oriko) along to counter them.
-[X] If not, at least some Anti-Magic Enchantmets?


I'm... iffy about asking Oriko if the Pleiades have been causing trouble, in front of Mami.

Like, they're her grand-protegees. Do we want to imply they might be badgucas?


Hijiri was being brought up solely to talk about team composition. Namely, we need Anti Magic on the team.

Kirika would be nice, too. :V


How dare you.

Mumi because Mumi.

That is all, all Mumi.
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UbeOne responds to the name Mumi. She might have thought people were calling her.
 
Marcus.D.Basterd said:
Not "hope" exactly. More like...You know how Witches are basically made out of a story? This new form of energy would be those stories having a happy ending.

And i was thinking that it would also effect Witches. Like, Witches are either creatures made out of someones "Bad end" and a hell of a lot of Grief, or someone changed by their magic in a way that means that there isn't much difference. So what do you think would happen when that Grief became something else?

I mean it's not like they wouldn't also use the Grief for their work, it's still fuel and they have systems set up to use it already, but it wouldn't be optimal as a primary system any more. It couldn't be.
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Honestly, I'm not sure it's metaphysically possible. If it were, the Incubators would already be using that system - they're not malicious, remember, but amoral. They don't care what it is that gives them energy, but rather how efficient it is.

I think that Hope's decay into Grief is what releases energy anyway. Anything that changes Grief into another emotion would probably take energy from the reaction, rather than release it. Although I suppose we could find out what Grief decays into - but I strongly suspect it'd be even worse to have be the dominant emotion in your soul. It'd probably be something like Hate or Envy. Although if it was Hate then Kyuubey could probably use boys just as much as girls - boys tend to lean more towards angry than sad, and Kyuubey stated somewhere that he uses girls because they produce more grief than any other sector of the populace.

We could pose the question to the Rat himself. Can he draw energy from any other source than Grief, assuming he has the proper equipment? Is there an energy source more efficient than Grief that he just doesn't have the ability to cost-effectively access? He doesn't have any reason to lie to us about these, and I don't see any way he could social-fu us with answers to these questions, so the Kyuubey-phobes shouldn't have any arguements?
 
Redshirt Army said:
That omake was great. Hand over your shitposting badge immediately. You've violated regulations and made quality content.
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Vebyast said:
I dunno, the YOLO at the end was pretty shitty. I believe that there's an argument that it undermines Homura's driving narrative of multiple "lives" by mocking it with deliberate contradiction between the seriousness of the Homura's story and the shittiness of the vocabulary, undermining the shittiness with an ironic display of literary value. However, I also believe that that argument is itself shitty and that the ending of the omake is grade-A 100% shitpost.
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Redshirt Army said:
Can we get some of SV's Advocates in here? This is a serious allegation and both sides of the issue should be carefully argued by trained internet professionals. :V
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The use of YOLO automatically turns every post into a shitpost regardless of its actual quality and Onmur's post is a great example: Before reading the YOLO at the end, the omake was well on its way to earning a hug, but the YOLO downgraded it to barely deserving a like and even funny was under heavy consideration.

I also just realized that a good relationship with the Asunaro crew will render our great Asunaro Caw Caw extraction plan moot, which means we have to find someone else we can kidnap, I mean liberate, together with best buddy.
 
For the record, Kyubey claims to gain energy from three things: The birth of a shitload of hope at the contracting, the raw grief he collects from grief seeds being given to him, and the biggest gain is the immense energy release of Hope Turning to Grief. He describes it as being a quick and powerful change from one extreme emotion to the other, so the two emotions involved probably don't matter aside from how easy it is to cultivate those two emotions in particular, and how much easier it is to make a happy person feel like shit than the inverse.

If you could turn Grief to Hope with the same amount of efficiency, it should yield the same energy.
 
AuraTwilight said:
For the record, Kyubey claims to gain energy from three things: The birth of a shitload of hope at the contracting, the raw grief he collects from grief seeds being given to him, and the biggest gain is the immense energy release of Hope Turning to Grief. He describes it as being a quick and powerful change from one extreme emotion to the other, so the two emotions involved probably don't matter aside from how easy it is to cultivate those two emotions in particular, and how much easier it is to make a happy person feel like shit than the inverse.

If you could turn Grief to Hope with the same amount of efficiency, it should yield the same energy.
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What we need are emotional rollercoasters.
 
"Wow, Sabrina, you actually managed to social the Incubators into being ethical."

"Yea, I just introduced them to fandoms and now all they do is contract people and make them watch The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones or something."
 
AuraTwilight said:
Homura's Revenge. She knows everything, and holds off until Homura's killed, then wishes her back to life so she can continue her quest.
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Finally made it home so I can check my copy of Homura's Revenge. You're correct. Homura mentions it to Madoka in Chapter 8.

There's been some debate in the past about whether HR is canon, but reading it again, it's very clear that it's not, because it opens with Homura having a flashback to Kyubey potentialbombing her. That only ever happened in the last loop. The whole thing is basically a What If wondering what would happen if Homura had interrupted Madoka's wish in Episode 12. (The first few chapters are also very blatantly tongue-in-cheek. Homura does the fist-on-palm "I have an idea!" motion right before she takes Madoka back in time, and lilies appear in the background when they meet again in the new timeline. :p)


Redshirt Army said:
"I wish I was a Sailor Moon style magical girl with none of this grief metaphysics garbage."
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How about "I wish that when a magical girl's gem darkened, she turned back into a normal human instead of a Witch"? That's what most of the magical girls have been tricked into thinking happens anyway.
 
Karnewarrior said:
Honestly, I'm not sure it's metaphysically possible. If it were, the Incubators would already be using that system - they're not malicious, remember, but amoral. They don't care what it is that gives them energy, but rather how efficient it is.

I think that Hope's decay into Grief is what releases energy anyway. Anything that changes Grief into another emotion would probably take energy from the reaction, rather than release it. Although I suppose we could find out what Grief decays into - but I strongly suspect it'd be even worse to have be the dominant emotion in your soul. It'd probably be something like Hate or Envy. Although if it was Hate then Kyuubey could probably use boys just as much as girls - boys tend to lean more towards angry than sad, and Kyuubey stated somewhere that he uses girls because they produce more grief than any other sector of the populace.

We could pose the question to the Rat himself. Can he draw energy from any other source than Grief, assuming he has the proper equipment? Is there an energy source more efficient than Grief that he just doesn't have the ability to cost-effectively access? He doesn't have any reason to lie to us about these, and I don't see any way he could social-fu us with answers to these questions, so the Kyuubey-phobes shouldn't have any arguements?
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that is the case. It is a shit case. We should change the case. By making something that would cause things to become better into a form/phase state of Grief that is both more efficient for fueling negentropy.

If you can misunderstand that then i'm not sure what i can say to be more clear.
 
The Narrator said:
How about "I wish that when a magical girl's gem darkened, she turned back into a normal human instead of a Witch"? That's what most of the magical girls have been tricked into thinking happens anyway.
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Didn't that happen with Madokamis cannon Wish? I thought that just causes turning back to become the new goal for Incubators.
 
Muramasa said:
That was literally one of the wishes being considered for vote at the very beginning of the quest.
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It was? Hang on, lemme go back to the start of the thread...
Lilithium said:
[-] I wish that instead of becoming Witches, Puella Magi simply become normal humans when their magic runs out!
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Well, I'll be damned. I would have figured a wish like that would have been vetoed for derailing the plot.


Marcus.D.Basterd said:
Didn't that happen with Madokamis cannon Wish? I thought that just causes turning back to become the new goal for Incubators.
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No. The Madokami wish caused magical girls to disappear instead of becoming witches. It's still fatal for the meguca, they just die peacefully and go to Madoka Heaven instead of becoming monsters.
 
The Narrator said:
It was? Hang on, lemme go back to the start of the thread...

Well, I'll be damned. I would have figured a wish like that would have been vetoed for derailing the plot.



No. The Madokami wish caused magical girls to disappear instead of becoming witches. It's still fatal for the meguca, they just die peacefully and go to Madoka Heaven instead of becoming monsters.
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WAS I SUMMONED ONCE MOOOOOOOOOOORE?

I made a few wishes that actually got steam, but the best go no selled due to the amount of effort required to make it work in depth. Pokemon Witches would have bee scary-cute too. Rip.
 
The Narrator said:
We don't have Poké-witches, but we have made a chibi version of ourselves out of grief which is pretty damn adorable. :cool:
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I keep meaning to reread and catch up but other things always distract me 0=0;

That does sound cute though. I'm assuming it'd be somewhat gloomy or mean though. A tiny Sabrina trying to nom on you!
 
The Narrator said:
Finally made it home so I can check my copy of Homura's Revenge. You're correct. Homura mentions it to Madoka in Chapter 8.

There's been some debate in the past about whether HR is canon, but reading it again, it's very clear that it's not, because it opens with Homura having a flashback to Kyubey potentialbombing her. That only ever happened in the last loop. The whole thing is basically a What If wondering what would happen if Homura had interrupted Madoka's wish in Episode 12. (The first few chapters are also very blatantly tongue-in-cheek. Homura does the fist-on-palm "I have an idea!" motion right before she takes Madoka back in time, and lilies appear in the background when they meet again in the new timeline. :p)
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It's canon as far as mechanics and characterization goes, however, and was written with the same canonical oversight as other entries in the series, so it's atleast an accurate what-if. That it didn't happen doesn't change that it's how things would go down.

And especially in the case of PMAS, Firn has decreed that while it didn't happen, the events are 'accurate'.

So, yea, we can use it as proof that Gretchenbomb won't stop Madoka.
 
We need to start receiving foreign meguca with Sabrina and Mami holding a Chibi Mami and a Chibi Brina respectively.
 
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