Dantalion
Insight: 366
- Location
- A Guest Room at the Brass Embassy, dying of Frenzy
- Pronouns
- Any
For that matter, what happens if we dewitch a grief seed from a familiar?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I'm like 99% sure that familiars need to eat souls to become witches, but am willing to be proven wrong through experiment.
It becomes the original magical girl. The familiars put in great effort to form a true duplicate of her from a mishmash of other human souls, after all!
It becomes the original magical girl. The familiars put in great effort to form a true duplicate of her from a mishmash of other human souls, after all!
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Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
Ah! But the original seed is still there too! There would be two meguca!!
Kyouklones!
Homuclones!
Mumiclones!
Brinaclones!
[Q] Witch out for cloning powers!
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
So? They're all just facets of the girl's souls true multiversal existence anyway. Remember, in PMMM, humans are Cthulhu.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
So you're fine with killing a bunch of animals to create a perfect emulation of a human teenager that suffers forever?
Because that's what Familiars do when they grow up.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
This. Any souls that are real enough to function as grief seeds are real enough that their suffering should be treated with the same weight as a " " " real " " " human.
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Wait, I thought this was to farm grief to get the incubators to stop entropy?
So we're just sacrificing lesser beings for the greater good of the Universe.
Like our role model, Kyubey.
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I said Soul Girl, not familiars, and by "functional replacement" I meant one that performs the same functions we want without being self-aware. I'm aware that it's only a distant possibility.
Shit, so we need to be a vegetarian now?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Grief cubes are proof that grief can be made to attract grief right? The step beyond clear seeds could easily be making grief cubes that last outside our range.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Bear in mind that the "function we want" is literally "experiencing grief". Replicating that without inducing enough awareness to experience emotion is definitionally impossible.
Grief cubes are fine for purposes of grief storage, but won't cut it as anti-entropy replacements for the QB, since they don't germinate grief like grief seeds.
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm not convinced that "physically containing the magic substance called grief" and "experiencing grief" need to be the same thing, but even if it is it's not like animals can't get sad.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Which is why you don't give Kyubey the cubes. You make massive grief cubes and let him collect the ongoing grief of entire regions as it flies to the cube. If that works, we'd need a lot of girls adding their grief to build a large enough cube for something like this.
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
He's referring to how Grief Seeds generate grief over time, which is why Grief Marbles will never outclass them for Kyubey's purposes.
Unless we create an object that continually casts magic to generate grief within itself.
GiftOfLove
From the Heart
Soul Gems do that too, though. They just don't vacuum up all the grief in an area too, like a Witch's does.
Do Grief Seeds germinate Grief? If they do, how can they be storable in anything other than Homura's timestop shield; you'd think they'd just hatch then. It seems to me that Grief Seeds normally don't hatch, unless they've managed to gather up enough Grief to hatch by girls Cleansing into them, or passive absorption from the environment.
I figured the "payoff" that Kyubey was looking for is the Grief that we normally vacuum out of a Grief Seed to make a Clear Seed; that's like a century's worth of Grief from a single magical girl, so under normal circumstances it's more Grief than any meguca would generate in a dozen of their expected lifetimes (most seem to die in a few months, after all)
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Charlotte, in the hospital.
It hasn't been explicitly confirmed, but Grief Seeds literally growing Grief fits the Incubator naming scheme way too well. It also neatly dovetails with QB's claims that it's fighting entropy if each grief seed is an infinite energy (but not power) source.
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Subrosian_Smithy
endless
- Location
- Washington
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Hers
I don't think it's even that, because the Clear Seeds are quiescent on some level. That might change as more grief is dumped into them, but right now, I don't think we're making things worse for the Witches contained by the seeds; even if they do feel adverse effects from the grief, they're still suffering orders of magnitude less than they were before (because we pulled so much grief out of them), and they will be suffering much less for a very long time, long enough for us to work on a better solution.
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
I would be a bit surprised to find that they're anything other than unconscious. If you imagine the witch to be "awake" and aware of it's surroundings, it stands to follow that a witch in a grief seed is more akin to a sleeping girl. Probably a sleeping girl having a nightmare, but one that is asleep all the same.
Meanwhile, a clear seed would make the "sleep" dreamless. Or at least, that's the way it looks to me, through the lens of being a similar sort of author to Firn. It'd make thematic and common sense of the situation, and be "scientifically viable" with relatively little justification. the fact that the witches seem quieter when we clean the grief out seems to support the hypothesis.
In either case, all this is purely hypothetical and 90% of our suggestions are pure conjecture, since we don't have any idea of a Grief Theory yet. Can we get a list of Hypotheses for a few basic rules for Grief Behavior? Whether we run them past Kyuubey or not, it'll be helpful to have a theory to turn to and test against when we're down in the nitty gritty of trying to figure out an alternative to Grief Seeds. We can't very well make an alternative without understanding how they work.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Grief Cubes are basically Wraith-crap, except they don't crap it on their own, but meguca need to beat the ever loving crap out of them to get the crap.
So we might not be able to make Grief Cubes, seeing as we don't have Universal Emotion Anti-Bodies available to us.
Given our powers, we probably could create a Child of Omelas to take in basically all Grief forever, were we to go FULL EVULZ!!!
Thing is, magic requires a Soul, right? So I doubt we can create an innanimate magical object that'd generate magic.
Thought: What if lots and lots of planets were magically terraformed and fully populated? Couldn't the Incubators harvest emotions other than Grief then, with so many emotional beings available?
So we might not be able to make Grief Cubes, seeing as we don't have Universal Emotion Anti-Bodies available to us.
Given our powers, we probably could create a Child of Omelas to take in basically all Grief forever, were we to go FULL EVULZ!!!
Considering we are such an object... Mmm... No, I can't think of anything.
Thing is, magic requires a Soul, right? So I doubt we can create an innanimate magical object that'd generate magic.
Thought: What if lots and lots of planets were magically terraformed and fully populated? Couldn't the Incubators harvest emotions other than Grief then, with so many emotional beings available?
GiftOfLove
From the Heart
Why would they bother? Grief has the highest yield.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
People talk as if creating a grief-cleansing enchantment will take years of R&D, but judging by the example Sayaka set today, it could probably be ready in about half an hour. We could have had one ready before we got to Ishinomaki if we hadn't decided to try deleting grief instead.
Even if they could, they wouldn't. They'd just see more victims they could harvest grief from to achieve even greater energy yields. The amount of harm caused in the process is irrelevant to them. Kyubey's blase reaction to destroying the world makes that clear.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Because the point of energy creation is to sustain the universe.
How many inhabited planets are there? Let's supposed the Incubators terraformed all planets they could and had them overpopulate with humans. Would there be enough of non-Grief energy to harvest, enough to sustain the Universe?
I've no sense of the numbers I'm talking about here.
We tried this.
We've got two more attempts to make at this, these being: a) Combo'ing magic with Mami and somehow figure out how Grief+Ribbon might let us exceed our range; b) Grief Control Enchantment (actually sit down and practice for hours).
And I guess, Familiars. But that might be dangerous.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Didn't I just say this? >_>
Worst case,
[ ] "Mami can you figure out how to suppress the witch feeling of Grief for me, please?"
"It's fine, Sabrina, I don't really mind it..."
-[ ] "I'll put on a maid dress and serve you breakfast in bed if you do."
*Puts on glasses*
"Time to science this shit."