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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Redshirt Army said:
[ ] I didn't see eye to eye with Akiko on a very large number of topics, but it's still sad to see someone reduced to the state she was in when I saw her last. I'm... satisfied she's recovering under your care.
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We aren't supposed to be that specific wording. And this wording is a bit too... formal. Feels like a press release, not a friendly conversation.

Random832 said:
I wonder if this is something like "Kyubey told her that they killed her."
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Or that she thinks that Ishinomaki refused to let her get any Grief Seeds and caused her to "starve" and witch out.

Whatever happened, I'm sure that Kyubey found a way to describe it to make it seem even worse.

"So you see what I told you was true, from a certain point of view."
 
Firnagzen said:
"So, uh... how's Akiko?" you ask carefully.

Rin's expression goes blank. "She's... coherent. Why?"
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Rin's wary. We need to be clear on why we're asking.

[ ] Show concern. Differences aside, Akiko's a victim as much as anybody else. Offer help; defer to Rin's judgement.

[ ] Clear Seed. Standard explanation, but include the changes in the contained Witch's behavior and how it relates to Grief transference into it.
-[ ] Explain you're giving one of these away to every meguca group, and offer one to them.
-[Q?] ... The irony is not lost on us.

[ ] This is not contingent on whether they accept the Seed; explain Sayaka's power and ask if they'd let her copy some powers. Maybe Sayaka can demonstrate?

I have a something something feeling like it'd be for the best if we did ask, just so Sayaka can have some more interaction with these gucas.

[ ] If the meeting wraps up, say you'd like to be friends in the future.

We asked every group so far if they'd like to hang out... don't want to leave this group entirely out of that.
 
Matou Sutegobana said:
The Ishinomaki girls probably had the seed, and she was hoping to retrieve it with the tax.

She may not know which if any of the seeds she taxed from them was her friend and likely was not using any of them to clean grief.

She may have broke down over having to give back the seeds due to thinking one of them could be her friend, and she was turning her over to be used to cleanse grief until she can't hold anymore and is given to Kyuubey.
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I'm going to be idealistic, here, and hope that that Seed is still in circulation. In a perfect world it'd have been one of the ones we cleared out today.
Onmur said:
Rin's wary. We need to be clear on why we're asking.

[ ] Show concern. Differences aside, Akiko's a victim as much as anybody else. Offer help; defer to Rin's judgement.

[ ] Clear Seed. Standard explanation, but include the changes in the contained Witch's behavior and how it relates to Grief transference into it.
-[ ] Explain you're giving one of these away to every meguca group, and offer one to them.
-[Q?] ... The irony is not lost on us.

[ ] This is not contingent on whether they accept the Seed; explain Sayaka's power and ask if they'd let her copy some powers. Maybe Sayaka can demonstrate?

I have a something something feeling like it'd be for the best if we did ask, just so Sayaka can have some more interaction with these gucas.

[ ] If the meeting wraps up, say you'd like to be friends in the future.

We asked every group so far if they'd like to hang out... don't want to leave this group entirely out of that.
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I think that this looks somewhat reasonable. I don't really like the longer speech; it's kind of stilted.
 
Onmur said:
Rin's wary. We need to be clear on why we're asking.
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Rin might be wary of more than just us. She basically became leader by default because Akiko was catatonic. Akiko's awake now... and she's probably going to want to take charge again. Or possibly some of the other members of the team want her to take charge again and return things to the way they used to be.

(SV's spell check recognizes "Akiko" as correctly-spelled, but not "Rin"? Weird.)
 
Higure said:
  • Decreased Grief collection due to decreased Witchouts.
  • Decreased number of Grief Seeds given to Kyubey.
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The Narrator said:
These two are doubtless what Kyubey is really concerned about, since they're huge disruptions to his energy-collection operations.
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You know, I wonder if we should consider actually talking about these issues with the Incubators. I mean, it's not like we're going to be able to fight them or anything, and assuming that the hints are correct they are actually providing an important service to the Universe.
 
I'd really like to push towards teleportation. I don't think Onmur's suggestion is pointed enough to do that... And I don't think we're on good enough terms to suggest hanging out, or to make the copy request in that wording. The argument that we should treat this group similarly to the others is overshadowed by the fact that this group is different from the others.

I think he's right about the opening, though.
 
Kaizuki said:
I'd really like to push towards teleportation. I don't think Onmur's suggestion is pointed enough to do that... And I don't think we're on good enough terms to suggest hanging out, or to make the copy request in that wording. The argument that we should treat this group similarly to the others is overshadowed by the fact that this group is different from the others.

I think he's right about the opening, though.
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Well, we're not asking to hang out... not really. More like a 'one day in the future we can be friends'. Leaving time to let enmities settle.

I don't know about copy. Maybe we should check with Sayaka first if she's OK with asking, or us asking for her?
 
The Narrator said:
We aren't supposed to be that specific wording. And this wording is a bit too... formal. Feels like a press release, not a friendly conversation.
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Broader phrasing is acceptable, but the "under your care" is very important. We absolutely must not give the impression that we see Akiko as the legitimate leader of the group - Rin's leadership is fragile, and undermining it is easy.

For the copy stuff... I feel like bringing up Walpurgisnacht first, so we have a definite use case in mind, will make them more accepting of letting Sayaka copy a few powers as a less risky alternative (to them) of actually participating themselves.
 
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Kaizuki said:
I'd really like to push towards teleportation. I don't think Onmur's suggestion is pointed enough to do that... And I don't think we're on good enough terms to suggest hanging out, or to make the copy request in that wording. The argument that we should treat this group similarly to the others is overshadowed by the fact that this group is different from the others.

I think he's right about the opening, though.
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You want to ask for teleport-copy as a straight up favor?

Maybe we can leave it open, tell them we'd really appreciate it; it'd really help the whole 'helping meguca' thing if we could be instantly available in an emergency. So... This particular issue we really can leave open, because if Sakura feels like lending her power, she can just teleport to Mitakihara any time.

Maybe, if she doesn't want to lend her powers, we could ask if she/they'd help us directly, instead? Say, if a meguca group from another city calls us in distress, can we count on them/Sakura to help us at least get there quickly?
 
Asking for smallish favors is an excellent way to make friends, surprisingly: Cognitive dissonance makes people answer "why did I do that" with "because they're a friend" instead of "because it was the rational thing to do". So I'm not against asking for it as a small favor straight up.
 
Firnagzen said:
"How's hunting been?"

"Hunting is... sustainable," Rin says. "We've given some territory back to Miss Chouko's group."

Tamiko tilts her head, giving Rin a look.
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Okay, two possible ways to read this:
1.) Between the reduced hunting areas, and needing to limit their grief seed use so they won't get 'full', they're barely keeping themselves sustained
2.) While they might have been hubting less witches, they're still keeping afloat thanks to Rin's healing and maybe Sakura's ferry-teleport services.
Firnagzen said:
"So, uh... how's Akiko?" you ask carefully.

Rin's expression goes blank. "She's... coherent. Why?"
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Coherent as in "Can recognize orders and questions, and answer them with nods and headshakes", or coherent like "Is lashing out verbally and viciously against everyone in the same room as her.
 
Vebyast said:
Asking for smallish favors is an excellent way to make friends, surprisingly: Cognitive dissonance makes people answer "why did I do that" with "because they're a friend" instead of "because it was the rational thing to do". So I'm not against asking for it as a small favor straight up.
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Since Sakura isn't here, we could ask Rin to ask Sakura for us.

I mean, we could ask Rin to ask Sakura to port here so we can ask in person...

Or we can defer to Rin's judgement.

defenestrator said:
Okay, two possible ways to read this:
1.) Between the reduced hunting areas, and needing to limit their grief seed use so they won't get 'full', they're barely keeping themselves sustained
2.) While they might have been hubting less witches, they're still keeping afloat thanks to Rin's healing and maybe Sakura's ferry-teleport services.
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Well, they just had their Seeds refreshed, so it's not like they actually used up any of their resources...

The Clear Seed should... clear that up, anyway.
 
The biggest issue with asking to copy teleport as a favor is that Sakura isn't even here. Asking through a telepathy relay is much more likely to be rebuffed, since she has less social pressure on her to accept. (Also, she mildly hates us, and doesn't care much about social niceties anyway.)

If we want to ask to copy a power as a favor for social engineering purposes, Tamiko's force fields are probably the best choice - they're strong enough that Homura specifically requested them for Walpurgisnacht, while being less of a breadwinner for the Sendai group than teleportation or healing.
 
We can leave the message with Rin. Sakura made it clear she didn't want to see us. An open invitation should be fine, I think.

I mean, if we truly need Sayaka to get teleportation, we could ask Nadia to put us in touch with teleporters. There's lots in... China? And they might share if only to be one of the first groups to get access to Clear Seeds... though we'd like also want to secure their cooperation in distributing these. (Hey, is that something we can bargain with? Everyone gets a Clear Seed, but premium access... get one before everyone else does! :D)

Actually, we could ask Sakura (through Rin) to not only let Sayaka copy her powers, but to directly help us with Clear Seed distribution? We've shown we're good on our word; we're doing our part of the deal (and better!), and she's in a crucial position to help. A lot.

I think, if we ask these two things out of her, she might be more amenable to accepting one of them. Either one would get us (~limited) access to a teleporter.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on May 17, 2017 at 9:12 AM, finished with 116840 posts and 2 votes.
  • [x] Express concern over Akkiko's state. You don't like her, but what happened to her is terrible.
    [x] Offer Clear Seed, with standard warnings but stress the how the witch goes Quiescent.
    [x] Be affectionate with Mami
    [x] Let Sayaka ask about power copying, but don't do it yourself.
    [x] Express concern over Akiko's state. You don't like her, but what happened to her is terrible.
    [x] Offer Clear Seed, with standard warnings but stress the how the witch goes Quiescent.
    [x] Be affectionate with Mami
    [x] Let Sayaka ask about power copying, but don't do it yourself.
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Redshirt Army said:
while being less of a breadwinner for the Sendai group than teleportation or healing.
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On the third hand, we are giving them approximately all of the 'bread', for free. Making a clear seed conditional on this is wrong, but pointing out that they don't need people to pay them to do things anymore may defuse any argument based on trying to 'protect market value'. (And if they're not willing to buy into the new post-scarcity-but-with-Sabrina-as-central-point-of-failure paradigm, they can just pretend that we just paid them eleventy billion grief seeds up front)
 
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I don't understand why we keep antagonizing Kyubey...
Also, if Grief does not give endless energy like seeds do then there will be a conflict down the line that we cannot win. :(
 
[ ] Show concern. Differences aside, Akiko's a victim as much as anybody else. Offer help; defer to Rin's judgement.
[ ] Clear Seed. Standard explanation, but include the changes in the contained Witch's behavior and how it relates to Grief transference into it.
-[ ] Explain you're giving one of these away to every meguca group, and offer one to them.
-[Q?] ... The irony is not lost on us.


[ ] Check how Sayaka feels about power copying. If she's amenable, ask Rin and her group, as you've asked the others.
-[ ] Ask Rin a favour. Sakura made it clear she doesn't want to see us, and this might sound callous, but with her power, she could really help us, help Magical Girls everywhere. Specially in emergencies. Ask Rin to please ask Sakura if she'd be willing to work with us, or maybe let Sayaka copy her powers.

I'm still iffy on how to go about asking for Sakura's powers/help.
 
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