Lone Courier 6
Devilish Fool
- Location
- United States of Quests
We do have decades after all... possibly forever.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
...or maybe just until Walpurgisnacht. I hate to be the depressing one here, but we have no clue what might happen to us when that day comes around.
Hopefully, nothing, but I can see anything from the loss of our powers to critical existence failure happening.
We need to make the most of the time we're confident we have.
That said, we don't have to do it right this second.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
There's also no reason to put it off. Travel time is time that we're not using to do anything else (except to cuddle Mami, and we can do that and enchant at the same time).
Nadia said that there had been other MGs with the power to clean soul gems, but there had always been a cost that made it unsustainable, usually in terms of the girl building up grief in her own gem. It wouldn't surprise me if, in the event that we create something akin to grief cubes, the amount of grief that they can clean were always less than the amount of grief accrued in making them. (Not unlike entropy, in a way.)
In that case, it would be true that the system would only be sustainable with Sabrina there to cleanse whoever's making the cubes... but the big difference is that it would be possible to build up a huge stockpile of cubes, both so that things can still last for a while after we're gone and so that we can distribute them widely and generously to all and sundry while we're here. Clear Seeds are a limited resource (and will be all the more so after we put an end to witchouts) but these grief cubes would not be.
If a grief cube enchantment is both possible and can be duplicated, then skilled enchanters worldwide could spend a few hours a day cranking them out them while continuously dumping their grief into a Clear Seed, which we could swing by periodically to empty. We could produce and distribute millions of them.
It's quite possible that any system that we set up will depend on us to some degree: we are the System Breaker. We won't know until we try making a grief enchantment and see how it goes. If you fear that we might someday die, then all the more reason to get to work on this immediately. The sooner we start production, the larger the stockpile we can build up while we're still here, and the longer things will last after we're gone.
- Location
- Somewhere
The best way to deal with the metaphysics of the PMMM-verse is still changing/breaking them.
I propose an ersatz Reality Marble. Heaven on Earth. A Barrier made purely out of magic (considering that magic does what grief does not and all else too)
Difference to Rebellion would be making it beneficial to all life within, instead of the hostile and (without children of Omelas) finally futile current one, or the barely stable mess that is the rebellion world.
I mean it, would it not be best to go for something like this?
The world is our enemy, our loved ones those who live within it, so why not fight our true foe and make a better world for all living beings.
Go full Xenoblade on the universes will.
Any opinions?
I propose an ersatz Reality Marble. Heaven on Earth. A Barrier made purely out of magic (considering that magic does what grief does not and all else too)
Difference to Rebellion would be making it beneficial to all life within, instead of the hostile and (without children of Omelas) finally futile current one, or the barely stable mess that is the rebellion world.
I mean it, would it not be best to go for something like this?
The world is our enemy, our loved ones those who live within it, so why not fight our true foe and make a better world for all living beings.
Go full Xenoblade on the universes will.
Any opinions?
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Kriemhild Gretchen witch card said:
- Location
- Somewhere
Well... would it be so bad if done properly and without insanity-inducing amounts of grief, despair and suffering mainlined straight into the soul of this messiah? (right word I hope?)
I mean... bread is not evil because you can poison it, so I would like to claim that it would very well be possible to realize Madokas ideal in a way that is not a witch-flavored Monkeys Paw interpretation.
I mean... bread is not evil because you can poison it, so I would like to claim that it would very well be possible to realize Madokas ideal in a way that is not a witch-flavored Monkeys Paw interpretation.
Umm, what? Sure you're not getting mixed up with one of the other Xeno games?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Trapping oneself in a false reality is not a plan that ever works.
Reality isn't our enemy. The Incubators are. They created a system that was rigged against us. Instead of fleeing from reality, I'd prefer to evict the Incubators.
Reality isn't our enemy. The Incubators are. They created a system that was rigged against us. Instead of fleeing from reality, I'd prefer to evict the Incubators.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
I agree completely. Personally, I'd rather we be prepping lie detection, at least, but this is important too. Just not sure we can realistically accomplish anything on the cleansing enchant front while in transit. Speckled utility enchants, on the other hand, are very realistic.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Completely disagree with this, though. Reality is absolutely our enemy. The balance of hope and despair? Entropy? Bloody wraiths fucking up Madoka's new world?
That's reality/Gaia. Not the Incubators. They're well-intentioned, sociopathic extremists. Reality and/or Gaia is a heartless force that causes suffering by its nature, and dominating/escaping from it is a necessity for creating a paradise.
- Location
- Somewhere
I meant in the sense of offing the universes current bigwig, compared to how it was done to Zanza in the Sentient Genesis, kill it, steal its body (the universe) and rewrite it to be less shitty as a whole, mandatory and/or nigh-unavoidable suffering should be a bug, not a feature
And to answer your question without the rambling (sorry about that) Zanza was shitty for life on Bionis and Mechonis on the whole, so he got murdered and his world rewritten o be mor in line of the victors vision.
Fake Edit: Oh... yeah, kinda forgot about Alvis... would argue it (my statement) still kinda fits, as Zanza still called the shots and was a megalomaniacal godbag, though Alvis is definitely benevolent, meant nothing against him, just argue that Zanza is the will I spoke of
And to answer your question without the rambling (sorry about that) Zanza was shitty for life on Bionis and Mechonis on the whole, so he got murdered and his world rewritten o be mor in line of the victors vision.
Fake Edit: Oh... yeah, kinda forgot about Alvis... would argue it (my statement) still kinda fits, as Zanza still called the shots and was a megalomaniacal godbag, though Alvis is definitely benevolent, meant nothing against him, just argue that Zanza is the will I spoke of
It is not so much false as it is a new truth. I mean, by that measure one could argue the Madokami wish to be a false reality, but as I am like almost completely certain that you did not mean that, may I ask for further explaination as to where the problem would lie?
Honestly wishing to ask politely, without sarcasm.
Edit: Kinda looking Strawmanny by me, honest apologies about that, seriously could have phrased that better.
Editx2: Will just leave this unfortunate phrasing for posterity's sake, not like I want to act as if I didn't do wrong phrasing it so. (Kinda intend it as a personal reminder to watch my phrasing)
Last edited:
That's less "Breaking the system" and more just running away from it though, imo.
- Location
- Somewhere
Running away is a perfectly legitimate course of action.
Especially when it involves migrating from Catachan to a Paradise world capable of sustaining the refugees forever.
And the best example for dominating/escaping reality? Devil Survivor2: Record Breaker
Especially when it involves migrating from Catachan to a Paradise world capable of sustaining the refugees forever.
And the best example for dominating/escaping reality? Devil Survivor2: Record Breaker
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Part of the system is its inescapability, though. You can't run away from it without breaking it.
I can name a few stories where building a new world to replace a broken one worked out. Magi, Interstellar, Sandman if the story about the cats is to be believed but I haven't finished reading it yet so please don't tell me whether or not I'm right.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Your proposal was to go inside a Barrier or "Reality Marble." In other words, a pocket dimension. Separate ourselves from the actual universe and hide from it. That's an entirely different thing from changing the nature of the actual universe, as Madoka's wish did. And even Madoka's wish only slightly alleviated the horribleness that the Incubators had inflicted: magical girls still filled up their soul gems and died.
Going into a fantasy world won't change the actual source of nearly all of our problems: the build-up of grief in soul gems. Going into another reality isn't going to change that. It's a deliberate flaw in the gems' design by creators that built them to fail.
Anyway, we have no reason to think that it would even be possible for us to place the entire planet in a Barrier. Our range limit is well established.
You want to put a barrier around the Earth? Use a chain of satellites to build the one that Asunaro had that kept Incubators from interacting with people. Render the source of the problem impotent.
But Zanza wasn't the will of the universe itself. He was just a Physical God, just like Mayneth was.
- Location
- Somewhere
Sorry, used the wrong terminology, my Nasu experience begins and ends at Zerbans LP of Fate/Extra and kinda mixed the term with the term of Gaias Supreme Reality Marble that I picked up on a random reading up on the Types.
I thought more of working together with others towards such an eventual end goal, instead of doing something (possibly) impossible for us alone, but just that, for us alone (for emphasis, not sniping or the like)
And considering she could alleviate it slightly, that means it is possible. Progress > 0 in a finite timeframe and all.
I just feel the proverb "Shoot for the moon, etc. etc." fits here somewehere, kinda my view to dream big and achieve what one can in pursuit of it, even if the dream itself turns out to be almost unreachable.
By the by, should I put my texts in Spoilers or something? Brevity seems to not be a thing I am capable of very well
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
She found the Cephalopods.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
I don't see any need to. Your posts aren't unusually long or anything.
There are other wishes that Madoka could have made that potentially would have done more good, certainly. ("I wish that soul gems no longer accumulated grief," for one.) Our hope is to outdo her results by ensuring that no girl's gem need go dark ever again. But we need to do it by improving the situation in our reality, rather than abandoning it.
(When Madoka retconned reality, she essentially created an alternate timeline, so from the perspective of people in the original timeline, it didn't help them at all. Not a useful solution for our purposes.)
- Location
- Somewhere
I totally agree if that should be the case, but I am just wondering how that connects with Wraith Arc - know not much about it but what I heard here and maaaybe some other places - was it not so that all timelines Homura went through were sort of overwritten/replaced/something with UKG?
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
Actually, I'd consider even almost matching Madoka to be a victory; it would mean that we achieved a significant, positive change without sacrificing our own happiness.
I've found out why this thread rubs me the wrong way sometimes. Sometimes it seems like you guys are obsessed with getting the perfect outcome, the 100% completion, or the True End. But those things don't exist in reality. There's never a perfect outcome. Nobody ever really can get 100% completion on making the world a utopia. The True End is never the happiest end. It's said that if you aim for the stars you'll hit the moon, but realistically speaking you'll never hit either. Instead of aiming for the stars, aim for your next target.
Let's make the world a little better before we make it a Utopia. There are going to be problems, there will always be problems. But if we burn ourselves up trying to reach Utopia, we're going to break apart before we achieve anything. Instead of trying to build our own Utopia, lets give everyone a shot, not a guarantee, but a shot, to reach their own dreams.
We don't have to do everything by ourselves.
I've found out why this thread rubs me the wrong way sometimes. Sometimes it seems like you guys are obsessed with getting the perfect outcome, the 100% completion, or the True End. But those things don't exist in reality. There's never a perfect outcome. Nobody ever really can get 100% completion on making the world a utopia. The True End is never the happiest end. It's said that if you aim for the stars you'll hit the moon, but realistically speaking you'll never hit either. Instead of aiming for the stars, aim for your next target.
Let's make the world a little better before we make it a Utopia. There are going to be problems, there will always be problems. But if we burn ourselves up trying to reach Utopia, we're going to break apart before we achieve anything. Instead of trying to build our own Utopia, lets give everyone a shot, not a guarantee, but a shot, to reach their own dreams.
We don't have to do everything by ourselves.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
If Sabrina can't make a positive change on par with what Madoka did... then why are we stopping her from wishing, again?
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
If we can move humanity and/or all sapient life out of this universe, to one that lacks the flaws of this one...well, the system might technically remain, but I'd still call it a win.
That said, I wouldn't call taking dominating/forcefully altering the nature of this universe to be running away from the system. It's pretty much the pinnacle of breaking it, in that you can render the system nonfunctional and useless by eliminating the underlying principles that it depends on and/or attempts to address. Notably Entropy.
That would have done no where near as much good as the one she made...and is a pretty shitty one, over all. It only helps current and future magical girls. It doesn't retroactively save past ones (which, I suppose, you discount due to timeline shenanigans), but it also doesn't do anything for currently living Witches, which you could do without any temporal anomalies.
Why? What makes this "reality" so much more valuable than any other one. Removing all Magical Girls and/or sapients from the current reality saves them just as well as changing it...I can't really see any reason to ascribe inherent value to this universe over any we might create.
What basis do you have for believing that? I had been strongly under the impression that all universes within the purview of Madoka's Wish were truly changed, not split.
Last edited:
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Your questions are related. In Wraith Arc, Homura tried to go back to one of the pre-Madokami timelines and found it still existed, but had been completely destroyed by Madoka's witch.
Madoka's wish doesn't really help those girls that much. They still die, usually very quickly. They just don't become witches afterwards. I place more importance on keeping present and future people alive.
(Trying to change history is another one of those things that never ends well, anyway.)
If Grief Seed shortages were no longer a thing, the existing magical girls could probably wipe out any remaining Witches pretty quickly, and no new ones would form. Witches would soon be a non-issue.
That said, I'm not recommending it because the consequences are unknown. I'm just saying, there are wishes that could have done more good than just "no more witches."