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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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landcollector said:
Minor correction-
300k GS divided by 26 GS/year is ~11,538 years (11,538.46 rounded down). Divided 50 ways, that's ~231 years (230.76, rounded up). Your overall point is still very much valid though.
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300k was itself a rounding down. It's actually 333k. A Clear Seed contains 50,000,000 marbles. Being generous and assuming an average soul gem capacity of 50 marbles (Homura's is 35, but her reserves are below-average), that's a million full cleanses per Clear Seed.

If an average Grief Seed has three cleanses, then a Clear Seed is 333,333.333... Grief Seeds, which is what the rest of my math was based on.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
300k was itself a rounding down. A Clear Seed contains 50,000,000 marbles. Being generous and assuming an average soul gem capacity of 50 marbles (Homura's is 35, but her reserves are below-average), that's a million full cleanses per Clear Seed.

If an average Grief Seed has three cleanses, then a Clear Seed is 333,333.333... Grief Seeds, which is what the rest of my math was based on.
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Fair enough, then.
 
I feel like we're starting to see why the Incubators are such big fans of the witch system. Compared to grief generated by magic use, it isn't just a magnitude or two more efficient, it is absurdly more efficient to witch out magical girls.

And given a supply of humans, witches can propagate themselves via familiars, turning a dozen or so humans into the same-ish amount of grief energy as the original witch, though a familiar born witch is probably less efficient than a magical girl born witch (given the incubators are farming magical girls and not regular humans).
 
Diomedon said:
I feel like we're starting to see why the Incubators are such big fans of the witch system. Compared to grief generated by magic use, it isn't just a magnitude or two more efficient, it is absurdly more efficient to witch out magical girls.

And given a supply of humans, witches can propagate themselves via familiars, turning a dozen or so humans into the same-ish amount of grief energy as the original witch, though a familiar born witch is probably less efficient than a magical girl born witch (given the incubators are farming magical girls and not regular humans).
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It's also relatively safe -- compared to, say, beings of another emotion, witches, being composed of grief, are generally too caught up wallowing to threaten the QBs.

By comparison, you get one entity of Love and it's zero to genocide in thirty seconds.
 
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Oh, indeed. Of course, some of the payoff for Witches and all the payoff for Familiars requires magical girls to harvest them.
If they're not strong enough, the witches kill them and the QB only gets one payoff from that one, if any (I assume they skim a bit when the meguca makes the wish, then the bulk on witchout, then something inbetween from the Seed).
If they're too strong, then they last long enough to work out what the QB's actually getting out of this, and may cause inconveniences.
That's ignoring that strong meguca make stronger witches when they inevitably do witch out, thus requiring even stronger meguca to take down.

It's a delicate balancing act the QB must maintain.
 
Dantalion said:
Oh, indeed. Of course, some of the payoff for Witches and all the payoff for Familiars requires magical girls to harvest them.
If they're not strong enough, the witches kill them and the QB only gets one payoff from that one, if any (I assume they skim a bit when the meguca makes the wish, then the bulk on witchout, then something inbetween from the Seed).
If they're too strong, then they last long enough to work out what the QB's actually getting out of this, and may cause inconveniences.
That's ignoring that strong meguca make stronger witches when they inevitably do witch out, thus requiring even stronger meguca to take down.

It's a delicate balancing act the QB must maintain.
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This is quite false, or at least insubstantiated. It's never actually explained in the series what the QBs do with the grief seeds, but it's quite clearly stated that they receive energy on witchout, not on "harvest." I've always found it likely that the QBs accept seeds entirely so that rehatching witches don't raze the population, though in PMAS QB's accepting of our non-seed grief seems contrary to that.

Note that if harvest were required then Madoka would be the least appealing contract for Kyubey rather than the most.
 
The question is, of course, how much grief QB can actually access from a grief seed on his own. He might have been bluffing or otherwise manipulating us, but his reactions after the first timestop seem to imply that a few hundred marbles was a significant amount of grief to him.

It's possible QB can't actually get at most of the grief in a seed without our help. We'd have to... ugh... talk to him to find out.

Also, if we hypercompress a boatload of grief before feeding it to QB, won't that spawn a mega-"shadow" in the middle of his processing plant?
 
Kaizuki said:
This is quite false, or at least insubstantiated. It's never actually explained in the series what the QBs do with the grief seeds, but it's quite clearly stated that they receive energy on witchout, not on "harvest." I've always found it likely that the QBs accept seeds entirely so that rehatching witches don't raze the population, though in PMAS QB's accepting of our non-seed grief seems contrary to that.
Note that if harvest were required then Madoka would be the least appealing contract for Kyubey rather than the most.
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As I said, some of the payoff requires claiming the Seed. I also said that the bulk of the payoff comes from the witchout. Nowhere did I state that they ONLY got a payoff from the reaping of Witches. Familiars, yes - they neither wish nor witchout.
While there is, admittedly, no evidence that the QB use the seeds for anything other than potentially planting Witches, I find it hard to believe a race so devoted to fighting entropy would waste objects containing so much potential energy.
 
Again, we ought to talk to Kyuubey about wether the raw grief we give him is, marble for marble, as efficient as the stuff in a grief seed, and ask him if there's anything we can do to get an edge on the current system. The guy's Lawful Neutral to an incredible degree - If we can beat the current system, the Incubators will drop it like five-day-old warm milk.
 
We've tried to avoid revealing just how much we know about the system as a way of limiting the social ammunition he can use against us with others.
 
Kyubey learning too much could let him metabomb our friends or worse. Kyubey is, in some ways, extraordinarily perceptive, to the point that we don't know where "learning too much" even is. We could talk to him and just be very careful about what we say, but given the thread, better to just not risk it.
 
Vebyast said:
Kyubey learning too much could let him metabomb our friends or worse. Kyubey is, in some ways, extraordinarily perceptive, to the point that we don't know where "learning too much" even is. We could talk to him and just be very careful about what we say, but given the thread, better to just not risk it.
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Literally trying to use information about his own system to social hit us would destroy any further communication with the other people here. And if he needed to he could already do so.
 
Seriously guys. Coobs can already fuck us at any point. He's got to realize by now that we know things about him or the system we aren't willing to tell our friends. We should bite the bullet and talk to the rat. He has useful info and can be persuaded to share that info because doing so might benefit him.
 
Kaizuki said:
It's also relatively safe -- compared to, say, beings of another emotion, witches, being composed of grief, are generally too caught up wallowing to threaten the QBs.

By comparison, you get one entity of Love and it's zero to genocide in thirty seconds.
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So we need to give those in grief, counseling, make them sorceresses, then kick KB's butt?
 
Redshirt Army said:
He might have been bluffing or otherwise manipulating us, but his reactions after the first timestop seem to imply that a few hundred marbles was a significant amount of grief to him.
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A surprising amount of grief for three magical girls to generate in a single night. Not necessarily more grief than he's ever seen before. The amount that we cleansed from Mami while she was healing us was enough to have witched her out.

In PMAS, at least, Grief Seeds still regenerate some grief after being cleansed. If Grief Seeds actually make grief, then the payout for the Incubators isn't just the 50 Megamarbles of grief in the Seed, but the ability to have it generate new grief (and thus energy) in the future. If their goal really is to find a source of energy that will still function after the heat-death of the universe (which I have my doubts about, but whatever) then that's pretty much exactly what they need.
 
I feel I must reiterate: Kyubey is not our friend. He is not our ally of convenience. He is not a neutral party. He is our enemy. He has every reason to hurt us and no reason to help us. He has no motivation to give us useful answers to any question we may ask.

Kyubey's real name is Incubator, as in "one who helps the egg hatch." The egg is our Soul Gem. His entire reason for existing is to get magical girls to witch out. Our entire reason for existing is to prevent it. Our goals are antithetical to his goals. His ultimate intent is to make us and everyone we care about witched out or dead. Thinking that Kyubey could be trusted to do anything else is how Rebellion happened.
 
The Narrator said:
I feel I must reiterate: Kyubey is not our friend. He is not our ally of convenience. He is not a neutral party. He is our enemy. He has every reason to hurt us and no reason to help us. He has no motivation to give us useful answers to any question we may ask.

Kyubey's real name is Incubator, as in "one who helps the egg hatch." The egg is our Soul Gem. His entire reason for existing is to get magical girls to witch out. Our entire reason for existing is to prevent it. Our goals are antithetical to his goals. His ultimate intent is to make us and everyone we care about witched out or dead. Thinking that Kyubey could be trusted to do anything else is how Rebellion happened.
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hmm, and yet when given a good enough reason to not do something he wont do it.
 
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