Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
We need to give meguca cleansing AND the control that normal institutions can't put on them. Well, to an extent.
Otherwise, we're changing one problem for another.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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Otherwise, we're changing one problem for another.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A lesser one. Normal institutions are not the only thing keeping teenage girls from committing mass murder. Even with the occasional psychopath, I really don't expect them to kill enough people to balance out witches.
- Location
- Austria
The main reason for meguca life being suffering is, by far, scarcity of grief forcing them to effective cannibalism. Without it, they would more likely than not have no reason at all to collapse anything.
You and Redshirt are effectively saying equivalent of "If we feed all the people in the world, they will have more time to war, thus better starve them as long as it keeps us in control".
Premise is absurd because lack of food is the big drive behind a lot of wars, and the whole idea of letting people die to make them compliant is so amazingly evil it would fit right into CK2 campaign, along with genocide, incest, sacking of cities and the like.
Letting people starve just on the off chance of them getting, against all reasons to actually get on with their lives, unruly if they are fed, is atrocity, plain and simple.
While I would not mind playing Evil Overlord Sabrina who tells every meguca "Obey me or witch out" while dewitching witches to cut off independent supply, I somehow doubt IC Sabrina would agree with it.
EDIT: Though force-witching and dewitching their closest friends while telling them it is for their own good, so that they don't accidentally destroy society (which nukes didn't but who gives a fuck meguca are stoopid and we are totes smartest of them all) would be amusing torture. Inventive too. And unique to Sabrina, doing her pacification of meguca with style.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
That's still people that likely wouldn't be dying if didn't change things. Just giving cleansing ASAP is not enough.
Well, if that food gives you superpowers and it is given to you at the point of your life where you're the biggest emotional wreck you'll ever be, maybe.
Do remember KB wouldn't contract, say, Hitomi, because Hitomi is a smart, well adjusted girl who if she got super powers, she'd most likely use them to give herself more time to do all her Ojou activities and still be able to hang out with friends.
KB Contracts girls with problems, or in way that will cause problems.
Contract Kyouko? Sakura family self destructs - nothing to do with Grief Seed scarcity.
Contract Sayaka? Witch out due to ideals. Sure, Grief Seed scarcity plays a part, but Sayaka wasn't lacking in Seeds because there weren't Seeds. She just had moral hangups regarding Homura and Kyouko.
I don't know if I should bring up Kagari Hinata because she's not main canon, but there's people out there who are just fucked up. KB loves them.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sure, at the expense of a bunch more other people dying from spontaneously forming suicide cults.
Also not made worse by grief seed scarcity.
Moral problems caused, in the case of Kyoko, by Kyoko's approach to handling grief seed scarcity, which might I add came with its own death toll. Also, even aside from actually witching out, her death toll would have been two less without grief seed scarcity.
And what finally convinced her to express that fuck-upedness was, ultimately, grief seed scarcity.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
That doesn't really change the fact that KB is still KB and is still going to go out and benefit. If you take out Grief Seed scarcity it's not gonna go 'damn' and stop. It's gonna resort to more normal problems to incite conflict.
My whole point is that Grief Cleansing Everywhere ASAP is a half-assed measure and we need to do better.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
How would that improve Kyubey's energy yields? Or are you talking about a level of cleansing that hasn't reached a critical mass point Kyubey can't do anything about?
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
I don't understand the current argument considering we cant really give out an alternative form of cleaning yet.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Normal problems are generally not life and death. There's a limit to how much can be incited with them. It will not be worse than witches.
And we will do better, but if against all logic other than Sereg's we can do it before we are in a position to do better, we shouldn't wait.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Well, we are waiting and taking our time. For example, tomorrow Bennouna will come over, and so far consensus is that we're gonna tell her to spread knowledge of Clean Seeds in a controlled fashion -which I feel is Redshirt's point- instead of just letting the knowledge spread everywhere.
If we let Bennouna tell everyone about Clean Seeds, we'd probably get Mass World Cleansing much faster, since we should be getting plenty of meguca with large scale movement skills -teleporters, information couriers like Bennouna- who we could convince to transport Grief Seeds everywhere. We could then just spend as long as necessary making Clear Seeds and sending them out. We are, however, not doing that.
- Location
- South Africa
How on Earth is Kyuubey going to benefit by doing that? And again, like Vebyast says, it not being perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't do that. Otherwise we'd have never made clear seeds.
EDIT:^ Clear Seeds have problems that unlimited cleansing doesn't. For a start, they require ra materials.
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- Location
- Illinois
Yeah, same. I'm just not going to be a huge part of this vote cycle, I think. Except, again, I want just Mami and us at home. So I guess I should vote Vebyast.
... I think the fact that we're expressing burnout here should be the reasoning behind what I'm saying, here.
Can we... What are we trying to talk to Doka about? Can we do it over telepathy?
... Should we ask Doka Homu if they want to come with us to Tokyo? Let's not isolate Doka from Sayaka? We'd ask Homu about asking Doka and give that as the reason.
I just... We were practically using Mami as a stress ball at the end of the O&K talk. I just want to get everything done and go home and do this with Mami.
[] Hug Mami. Thank her repeatedly, for specific things or not.
[] Eventually, bring up the table. Maybe it's a little trivial, but you'd thought that the two of you could fix it together, and then it'd be something you'd made together? Tentatively raise the idea of melting the glass down and using a mold to shape it; do theoretical science with Mami until the two of you have a plan that involves both of your magics. Make sure it won't burn down the apartment.
[] Ask Mami when she wants to finish the rest of her homework. Lightly push her towards it being her decision as necessary, you have a bit of work to do anyway (enchant practice) so you'll just schedule that for "next to Mami while she's doing her homework."
[] Do whatever follows reasonably from the previous two lines. Cuddle as is reasonable. Everybody has a partner in your mind, but you have the best one.
Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We're not doing that because we don't think we can. Clear Seeds still have us as central to the scheme, and someone trying to kill or steal the goose so they get all its golden eggs is much more plausible than removing the need for grief seeds causing society to collapse. If not for the whole thing still having us as a failure point I'd absolutely be in favor of a general release. As it is we need to set up that whole organization first.
Also, it's up to Mami to determine how to make the table appropriately decorative. Sabrina can not be trusted with this task.
- Location
- South Africa
It's not a bad idea, but I still want Mami's opinion. It's her table and her apartment.
- Location
- Illinois
KNICKKNACK HELL
Unfortunately she'll go along with whatever.
But regardless it's not X'd. It's just what I want to go home and do. We could remake the glass into figurines but that might be beyond Mami's ribbon coordination to help with.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
So it's our table and our home.
Maybe can use Grief to work the glass? Putting things in place and using Grief Heat to fuse them together may work?
- Location
- Illinois
We could trivially do any of this just ourselves. Mold, apply heat source, apply heat sink wrapped in insulator. But I'd rather create something that Mami can go "Sabrina and I made that."
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Just put shiny blinking lights on the table and call that our part. And give Mami gold to decorate te table borders.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
I feel like things have gotten confused somehow. I don't think there's any issue with distributing enchanted items that would clean grief from Soul Gems and compress it into marbles. It's the idea of giving them Grief Lantern rings that will let them make their own grief constructs that strikes me as extremely problematic. The former is like distributing food and medicine. The latter is effectively handing out WMDs to anyone who asks.
I'm hoping that we're going to be Gretchenbombing her, otherwise I don't see what we have to talk to her about that's so urgent that it has to be done tonight.
- Location
- Austria
Over in Discord, they are arguing against the former, using "megucas are living WMDs themselves and we can't give them anything without full control" and "too powerful individuals will upset society and metaphorically blow up the Earth if given unlimited power source, which is grief cleansing".
They also think that QB approaches only unstable girls, thus making them inherently prone to being too irrational to trust with unlimited power.
So it seems they are okay with cutting off food and medicine if some of them may make their way to hostile entities, and all those civilians who weren't dangerous and got shafted are unfortunate side effect.
Appletank
Acquire Cheese
We're going to start questioning where she puts the damn thing away the moment we look away for half a second. Pretty sure we still haven't figured out whether Knickknack hell is in a quantum superposition or not.
Put it in a vote, Mami.
Oh, right. <Pulls out her phone and logs onto SV>
- Location
- Illinois
No. You sound like Ugo used to.