And I've been posting stuff here as well, or did you miss the entire essay earlier? Unfortunately discussion between myself and Ugo physically cannot take place in this thread. Because, you know, he's banned.

1. You deserve better than to be Ugolino's mouthpiece.

2. He was banned from the thread because he caused discussion to be incredibly toxic.

3. The principle that all discussion relevant to the thread should happen in the thread, should not be superceded by the whims of someone who has been banned out of the quest for good reason.
 
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1. You deserve better than to be Ugolino's mouthpiece.

He has a very different opinion from me on what we had ought to be doing here, thank you. I do not agree with ditching Oriko. He would love to.

2. He was banned from the thread because he caused discussion to be incredibly toxic.

Frankly I've found him a highly respectable debating opponent who is only very infrequently even slightly over bounds in his dealings with me.

3. The principle that all discussion relevant to the thread should happen in the thread, should not be superceded by the whims of someone who has been banned out of the quest for good reason.

I can start logging discussions with him and quoting them to thread if you'd like, but I think that one might argue against that saying that a threadban should not be superceded by the principle that all discussion should happen in this thread.

One could also argue that he ought to have no part in this whatsoever, but I think that's a little much for the circumstances, because Ugolino is not evil. He was not banned for causing "toxicity," he was banned for a subset of that, because he was causing flamey arguments. That ban took a looooong time to happen, because Ugo also was an active and healthy participant who took a lot of time and spent it on active discussion here.

Look, it's late, at least for me. I'm tired, I'm sick, I'm overworked and I've had a really shitty twenty hours or so. So maybe I misread something or misunderstood something. Looking at it again, you don't seem to have ever actually said "logical arguments get Oriko's hackles up." You mentioned logical arguments and then Oriko's hackles being up and my frazzled brain linked the two into a single chain of events. So for that I'll apologize.

I've started and erased this second paragraph dozens of times. I can't deal with this when I'm this tired, and I'm upset enough to say something I'd regret. I'm going to sleep.

... Narrator, I'm going to apologize to you, too. I've posted some really dumb shit on occasion and people don't often chew me out for it. You didn't deserve that, earlier. I hope you get better soon.
 
Ugo is a bit of an asshole who has trouble understanding that it's ok for people to have different values. He brings a lot to the table in terms of ideas and actual debate, and I'm sad that he can't talk here, but lets not forget that he's also an asshole.
 
One could also argue that he ought to have no part in this whatsoever, but I think that's a little much for the circumstances, because Ugolino is not evil. He was not banned for causing "toxicity," he was banned for a subset of that, because he was causing flamey arguments. That ban took a looooong time to happen, because Ugo also was an active and healthy participant who took a lot of time and spent it on active discussion here.

Healthy? I know you only really started participating in this quest after his perma-threadban, but Ugo was not healthy for the thread. PMAS was an unending flamewar for most of it's run. You remember the science kerfluffle recently? It was like that all the fucking time... except when Ugo had been temp-threadbanned.

Frankly, despite him being very smart and insightful, the thread is indeed better off shut of him and his influence.
 
This line of discussion is
  • Not useful
  • Rude
  • Likely to erupt into exactly the kind of horrible, contentious derail that you're all complaining about
  • Probably going to attract moderator attention if it continues, which would be tragic

Blah blah blah fun police blah blah blah. To hopefully get things back on track, how about we start thinking about other upcoming conversations?

First, poking Sayaka at some point has been floated. The stated rationale is so that she knows we care about her. The opposition is that she's going to interpret it more as us being intrusive and nosy. Allow me to propose an opening that will hopefully start the conversation off on a note that won't have Sayaka angry at us from the word "go": "So I heard you acquired a sempai last night!".

Second, if we're worried about Kirika being an enabler for Oriko more than an assist, we probably want to telepathy her privately after we finish our conversation with Oriko. Confirm, again, that Oriko needs someone to pull her out of her depression. Kirika is likely a better target for our messages about Oriko's precog being flat-out wrong, since reducing Oriko's access to resources is useful to us even if she's going full villain again, and in the best case it'd give Kirika more ammunition and more resistance to Oriko's martyr complex.
 
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My proposed schedule after Oriko-stuff is to message Kyouko, Yuma, Sayaka, or any combination of the three. Have a talk with Mami and Homura about Stuff (there's so many things I want to talk about and unsure what to prioritize), in particular tell Mami more about our interactions with Kyouko if she wants to hear it, as well as about Yuma to give her a bit of hope for Kyouko. I'd also like to talk to Homura about our plans to go to Asurano, and try to prime her up for Potentialbombing because I am super fucking uncomfortable with that hanging over our heads when we leave Mitakihara holy shit you guys.

Additionally, if we don't ping Sayaka during her Koko-time, message her before she goes to bed with an apology about before, and a promise to sincerely make it up to her with an acknowledgement we've been shitty and neglectful in general. Message Hitomi for similar reasons; tell her we want to be a better friend with her, and that we're sorry for everything today, and that we want a closer relationship with her and the girls in general.

Since we'd of literally telepathied every-fucking-one else at this point, message Madoka, even if just for fluffiness. Madoka is great. Talk to Madoka more. Prime her up for being more included in our inputs and, if it seems appropriate, remind her that we value her as a normal human, and that she doesn't need to do anything special to be included in the group. Promise you'll demonstrate how valuable she is to you now, by telling her about the Sayaka situation and asking her advice on how to fix things with her.
 
My proposed schedule after Oriko-stuff is to message Kyouko, Yuma, Sayaka, or any combination of the three. Have a talk with Mami and Homura about Stuff (there's so many things I want to talk about and unsure what to prioritize), in particular tell Mami more about our interactions with Kyouko if she wants to hear it, as well as about Yuma to give her a bit of hope for Kyouko. I'd also like to talk to Homura about our plans to go to Asurano, and try to prime her up for Potentialbombing because I am super fucking uncomfortable with that hanging over our heads when we leave Mitakihara holy shit you guys.

Additionally, if we don't ping Sayaka during her Koko-time, message her before she goes to bed with an apology about before, and a promise to sincerely make it up to her with an acknowledgement we've been shitty and neglectful in general. Message Hitomi for similar reasons; tell her we want to be a better friend with her, and that we're sorry for everything today, and that we want a closer relationship with her and the girls in general.

Since we'd of literally telepathied every-fucking-one else at this point, message Madoka, even if just for fluffiness. Madoka is great. Talk to Madoka more. Prime her up for being more included in our inputs and, if it seems appropriate, remind her that we value her as a normal human, and that she doesn't need to do anything special to be included in the group. Promise you'll demonstrate how valuable she is to you now, by telling her about the Sayaka situation and asking her advice on how to fix things with her.
Yes.Let us not forget that feeling useless and without agency is part of Madokas problems.And it is not her fault, the original timeline Madoka was a healthy, if rather too nice and sweet person, AFAIK, before Homura started cutting her out of any meaningful role in the incidents.. and starting her karmic spiral into losing all feelings of self... not self worth... more selfimportance, to the level of her valuing a kittens life more than her own.
Not out of self-loathing or depression.Because she literally has no sense of her own importance.
 
Well maybe you should push for it! <3

I totally would. Maybe ask Homu to stop by in the morning, and have a timestop enchantment session? Once again we're going to be busy all day. We have a meeting with Nadia Benouna at the start and then we have the cleansing trip. And then whatever other fun hijinks Firn has planned.

Also, I'd like to push for one more enchantment session with Mami before we turn in tonight.
 
I... don't think we need to do any of that? :confused:

We already have general knowledge of the differences between a fully functioning soul gem, a grief seed (including one on the verge of rehatching) and a clear seed. The only difference of note, was simply what the witch core was currently surrounded in. Magic, Grief or Nothing. The witch core reacts aggressively when it has high concentrations of grief surrounding it and becomes quiescent if the grief is removed (guessing removal of grief in high concentrations causes some kind of shock to the witch core). The witch cores of our Soul Gem and Clear Seed are quiescent.

We already have a relatively simple thing we can try, which is consistent with everything we know about Enchantment magic. We just need to get reasonably competent with enchantment magic.
 
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Re: Dewitching

IMO, we need 1.) more data points and observations the nature of witches* 2.) make a grief artifact that would collect said data and store it in a permanent, non-grief bending reliant format.

*because, IIRC, we haven't done much beyond insta-gibbing them, with the exception of that time with the Egg Witch when we tried to take over one of its chicken familiars, that had unfortunate results

1.) Suggestions on what to observe
  • A Witch in passive/docile, aggressive, and weakened states. If possible, we could also observe one that's migrating or forming its barrier too
  • A Witch that's defeated and turned into a grief seed. I know, we kinda do this every time, but have we actually carefully observed and written down what happens?
  • A Grief seed re-hatching into a Witch
  • A Magical Girl witching out... Before you whip out the torches and pitchforks, I am not suggesting we let a meguca witch out in our presence. What I meant is that there's a possibility that a meguca somewhere out there has a recording, mundane or magical, of one in action... Actually, have we asked Homura if she tried that in a past loop?
  • A Clear Seed. Or rather, we have observed that something is happening to a clear seed as time passes 9aside from being more quiescent). But we haven't even started logging the changes, nor having a set-up that observes a clear seed 24-7.
2.) Data collection. Basically a grief device(s) that:
  • Takes both mundane (visual recording, sound, temperature, air pressure, lumens, allthedata) and magical readings (energy output, direction, grief, soul shenanigans, dear Madokami we don't even have a unit of measurement for magic :V )
  • Does these all in high-speed, like in the millisecond rate
  • Stores this in multiple magical and mundane formats. Aside from getting it on paper, maybe have it able to save the data on a USB drive or something?
  • Optional: Able to keep all recorded data secure from prying eyes (QB, hostile meguca, Mami :( )

90% of the stuff we get would probably go into a file cabinet and accumulate dust for a few decades, but I think it's better first step than directly/indirectly connecting our brain meats to a witch' influence, or throwing shit to the wall and hope nothing important explodes.
Your science is too scientific. Needs more explosions and arcane rituals.
 
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