- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Fair point. "Curtail the threat posed by Feathers as much as possible", maybe?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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Fair point. "Curtail the threat posed by Feathers as much as possible", maybe?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ideally I'd like to include something to the effect of organizing meguca on a larger scale than we presently do. Fixing the cleansing scarcity would likely involve that, but one is not necessarily the other. That said, I agree with everything you say above as it stands.
Perhaps a more general, "Address all major standing threats through any means needed, be they violent or non-violent," would suit better? We don't know that nothing more significant will arise, after all.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I don't like a definition as broad as that, because then we get quibbling about whether the QB count as a 'standing threat' and what it means for them to be 'addressed'. No, I think keeping it narrow is better if we want to avoid arguments.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Eh, fair. Withdrawn. We can always add more objectives later.
- Location
- South Africa
Improving our ability to detect witches
Reducing the effect of grief
Cleansing beyond our range
Giving others the ability to cleanse
Expanding our range
Finding a way to permanently give others constructs as gifts
Stealing Incubator technology
Making the public aware of Kyuubey
Providing therapists to magical girls
Improving the informedness of consent to contracts
Expanding our team
Networking with other magical girls
Ending violent conflict
Creation of permanent artifacts
Reducing the effects of mundane, human problems
Space travel
EDIT:
Create defenses against other alien civilisations
Reducing the effect of grief
Cleansing beyond our range
Giving others the ability to cleanse
Expanding our range
Finding a way to permanently give others constructs as gifts
Stealing Incubator technology
Making the public aware of Kyuubey
Providing therapists to magical girls
Improving the informedness of consent to contracts
Expanding our team
Networking with other magical girls
Ending violent conflict
Creation of permanent artifacts
Reducing the effects of mundane, human problems
Space travel
EDIT:
Create defenses against other alien civilisations
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Okay, I can get behind that.
[X] Higure
The other thing that I mentioned awhile ago was:
These are actually something that Oriko, being raised by a politician, could help a lot with, and frankly what I've wanted to groom her for, while she's been nattering on about killing herself over ensuring that Hitomi and Sayaka don't fight.
[X] Higure
Sort of dovetails with "Improved Cleansing logistics" but I also want to add:
- Improve communication and conflict resolution protocols among Magi, and between Magi groups.
The other thing that I mentioned awhile ago was:
- Prevent or stop the inevitable war/wars over who has control over / access to Sabrina's infinite cleansing power.
These are actually something that Oriko, being raised by a politician, could help a lot with, and frankly what I've wanted to groom her for, while she's been nattering on about killing herself over ensuring that Hitomi and Sayaka don't fight.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
I think we should probably leave the Incubators more-or-less alone for now (unless the situation changes). They're a problem that needs to be addressed, but I'd want to deal with Feathers and Witching (in particular) before we enter into open conflict with the Incubators, and fixing both (and other situations that appear in the mean time) will likely take until the end of the year, at least.
There's also the issue of not knowing the full extent of Incubator Influence. We need to study them and learn the full extent of their activities: It's possible their influence is somehow currently necessary for civilization/humanity to continue existing, in some way (making themselves indispensable could be something they'd do to protect their interests here). Basically? We need more info.
I'd recommend replacing Influence Reduction with "Research Incubators," if we want to work the bunnycat issue at all over the next year.
Otherwise, these and Feathers look good.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Sure, but I think we can fold a lot of this into a "Improve Sabrina's abilities" bullet point. Even Ugo disagreed with it more as a matter of prioritization then anything else.
We don't know how they'll respond. Veto'd due to safety concerns.
I don't object, but breaking the masquerade is not universally accepted.
Sure.
...all violent conflict? Like, including punches and stuff? Veto'd, not practical.
A possible addendum to this is that she's thinking too small. Killing herself to ensure that a couple of people who are already friends will continue to talk to one another? There is so much more that needs to get done; why does she think this one action is enough for her?
- Location
- South Africa
I object to putting "Break masquerade" on the ~1 year time horizon, for the same safety reason that you object to stealing Incubator tech: we don't know how the Incubators will respond. Hell, just letting people like Sayaka's parents in on things is dangerous; we do not need to have the Incubators out to kill our friends (any more than they already are.)
So, you want to put World Peace on our ~1 year goal list? I call that unrealistically optimistic: the UN's been trying to do that for more than half a century and they're getting nowhere. Hell, just making a meguca UN and universal code of conduct is probably going to take more than a year, but it's at least distantly plausible.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
No, he's not talking about world peace, that would be silly.
He's talking about peace throughout the universe.
- Location
- South Africa
Well, it depends on what we're willing to do and what abilities become available to us in the recent future, but fair enough. One year.
Reducing armed, multi-party conflict
And I'm totally up for the meguca UN and universal code of conduct thing
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Good idea. Adding.
Plan (Explanations for lines are in Green):
[X] Explain that you agree: Oriko has that right. That doesn't mean she needs to do it as soon as possible. You understand wanting to die doing something meaningful, and wanting to live the same way.
Opposing her on her right to die is going to put her back up. Agreeing with her should weaken her guard.
-[X]Ask her outright: Is this about saving the world, or about ending her life? She can do a lot more alive than she can do by dying immediately...but her fixation on her own demise suggests she's just in a rush to get it over with.
Much like Hitomi's situation, we need to find out exactly what her issue is, or we'll be shooting at targets that may not exist. Notably, we need to determine if she consciously wants to die, or simply thinks it's inevitable.
--[X]If she says she's destined to die, and is simply trying to make sure it counts, point out the fallibility of her visions.
Oriko's really bad about being blinded by her own precogonition
---[X]She is a magical girl. Magic doesn't submit, letting the universe and its laws dictate what happens: Magic is a Wish or a Curse...it defies Order, Law, and Fate to create impossibilities. Why the hell is she submitting to something she is capable of conquering?!
While I'm kind of passionate personally on this topic, it's a very literal situation here: Magic is so valuable because it casually violates the laws of physics. Causality and possibility can be overcome, with such power.
---[X]Letting her personal lack of hope keep her from doing as much as she can...that's a waste. A waste of all of her and Kirika's potential.
Appealing to her emotions on this issue isn't going to work great. Appealing to pragmatism, though, might be more successful.
----[X}Uniting our allies is only a fraction of what we know she can achieve, if she's willing to reach further.
Addendum suggested by TheEyes, pointing out that the benefits of her current goal are quite limited, compared to her potential contributions.
-[X]If she admits she simply wants to die: Hear her out, then Return to Voting.
I don't think she is knowingly trying to kill herself for it's own sake, and it's a loaded enough situation that a dedicated vote would be best.
-[X] If she says it's about saving the world, then ask her what needs to change in order for her and Kirika to live a meaningful life together and eventually die a meaningful death as heroes, rather than simply dying meaningful deaths as villains.
Simple enough: She loves Kirika. She doesn't want to kill the girl, but she's willing to do so for the greater good. What this basically comes down to is trying to help her find a way of having her cake and eating it too.
-[X] If she answers in some other way: Hear her out, then Return to Voting.
Can't predict everything.
-[X] If she tries to dodge the question, push her for a proper answer. The only way we can help her is if we know her problem...and trying to play all of her cards close to her chest is crippling both of our options.
We can't fix a problem we can't actually recognize, as usual.
Previous Vote Versions and Associated Posts:
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Goal List V2
• Keep the Mitakihara Quintet happy and alive.
• Defeat Walpurgisnacht.
• Dewitching
• Ethical Grief Seed Alternatives
• Improve Sabrina's Abilities
• Expanding our team
• Improved Cleansing Logistics
• Improve communication and conflict resolution protocols among Magi, and between Magi groups.
• Research the Incubators
• Curtail the threat posed by Feathers as much as possible.
Prevent or stop the inevitable war/wars over who has control over / access to Sabrina's infinite cleansing power.
• Keep the Mitakihara Quintet happy and alive.
• Defeat Walpurgisnacht.
• Dewitching
• Ethical Grief Seed Alternatives
• Improve Sabrina's Abilities
• Expanding our team
• Improved Cleansing Logistics
• Improve communication and conflict resolution protocols among Magi, and between Magi groups.
• Research the Incubators
• Curtail the threat posed by Feathers as much as possible.
Prevent or stop the inevitable war/wars over who has control over / access to Sabrina's infinite cleansing power.
Not helpful. Please don't.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Ah, one more thing we might consider:
Entropy Research. While our universe's Entropy is a VERY distant problem, we do not know if the Madoverse's physics might deviate. We need to know exactly how important the Incubators work is, and more of its nature, in order to determine whether it's something we personally need to address, or simply something we'll need to consider for dealing with the Incubators.
Obviously, I don't see us fixing Entropy soon, or even finishing research, but it's something we might want to get started on. Will likely overlap with Incubator Research some, anyway.
Hell, researching Magic, too.
...I'm sensing a trend here.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
• Research Magic
• Research Entropy
• Research Incubators
• Research Research
• Research Entropy
• Research Incubators
• Research Research
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
- Research Social
- Research Diplomacy
- Research (Grief Seed) Economics
- Research (Meguca) Government Administration
- Research Witches
- Research De-Witching
- Research Hypothetical Sane Witches
- Research Law of Cycles
- Research Diplomacy
- Research (Grief Seed) Economics
- Research (Meguca) Government Administration
- Research Witches
- Research De-Witching
- Research Hypothetical Sane Witches
- Research Law of Cycles
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
...Let's just go with:
• Research
I think it's the optimal solution.
• Research
I think it's the optimal solution.
Higure
Witch of Faith
- Location
- The Golden Land
Maybe:
- Incubator Research
- (Meta)physics Research
- General Research
Entropy Research I think can be safely left to the Incubators for the ~1 year goal. Maybe when we have a larger research group and can devote some resources to it. Similarly, General Magic Research doesn't strike me as an immediate or even near-term priority, not the same way that expanding Sabrina's personal abilities or preventing people from dying are.
Neither of those can even be considered as high a priority as Dewitching, since the very nature of Grief Seeds tells us that each Seed means a teenage girl is undergoing unimaginable torrent on a indefinite basis, and that's so morally repugnant that it ought to be our first major priority once we've solved the major immediate threats to Sabrina's life like Feathers, Walpurgisnacht, World War Mitakihara, and lack of regular Mamihugs. But even that can't really be considered until we can find a Grief storage vessel that isn't a Seed, which either means extending Sabrina's power over Grief to the entire planet or coming up with something like rechargeable Grief Cubes. So yeah, I'd call those nice to have, but not nearly the same priority as the stuff we want to have done in a year.
Neither of those can even be considered as high a priority as Dewitching, since the very nature of Grief Seeds tells us that each Seed means a teenage girl is undergoing unimaginable torrent on a indefinite basis, and that's so morally repugnant that it ought to be our first major priority once we've solved the major immediate threats to Sabrina's life like Feathers, Walpurgisnacht, World War Mitakihara, and lack of regular Mamihugs. But even that can't really be considered until we can find a Grief storage vessel that isn't a Seed, which either means extending Sabrina's power over Grief to the entire planet or coming up with something like rechargeable Grief Cubes. So yeah, I'd call those nice to have, but not nearly the same priority as the stuff we want to have done in a year.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
The Entropy angle... we may be able to solve that if we can get a sufficiently large barrier going. Then we find a way to make everybody in the universe into griefbenders. Give everybody the freedom to define their own reality. And then Humans were Nasuverse TYPES and the universe was made of reality marbles.
It's an insane supervillain plan. But if we can make our barrier insulate against the heat death of the universe it just might work.
It's an insane supervillain plan. But if we can make our barrier insulate against the heat death of the universe it just might work.