but wouldn't scarcity of mundane products remain the same?
Take over Yakuza -> Force them to stop less reputable ways to make money -> Replace such ways with magic -> Get all the moneyz and use Yakuza as a meguca support network.

As a plan, I think it sounds simple enough. We'd have to confront KB about not mindwiping some Yakuza bosses, and figure the best way to use magic to make money.

But considering our powers are basically 'our will be done' -> physical effects remain... we'll figure it out. :V

I haven't seen any Meguca make permanent conjurations of any item they can conceive yet.
With some luck, we can SCIENCE our powers into creating an infinite magical battery or sorts, just like Sabrina is: Make magical item -> feed magic into it to make it last longer -> magic feeding causes Grief -> Grief is turned into magic -> etc.

What if we, like, appropriate one of Oriko's rooms, arrange some tables and make it into a courtroom. Then we can put Oriko on trial. :V

We can be Oriko's attourney; puppy eyes Mami into being the judge and being as fair as she can; Sayaka can be the offended party and Hitomi her attorney...

:V
 
What if we, like, appropriate one of Oriko's rooms, arrange some tables and make it into a courtroom. Then we can put Oriko on trial. :V

We can be Oriko's attourney; puppy eyes Mami into being the judge and being as fair as she can; Sayaka can be the offended party and Hitomi her attorney...
Well we are SV, so a certain amount of lawyer LARPing is expected...
 
Can someone do a vote tally? I have no idea what the options are at this point now that the discussion's gotten so dense...
 
Alternatively we could make death by familiar a standard form of execution for capital crimes.
Not actively feeding ANYONE to a familiar until we're 100% sure what happens to Souls (both eaten and uneaten). If there's even a chance PMMM souls go to an afterlife or reincarnate, and getting eaten prevents that, then I cannot possibly justify letting familiars near anyone's Soul.
 
It's more likely anyway that we figure out how to mass-produce a tofu-equivalent for feeding Familiars. None of the "sacrifice terminal or condemned people" options work if we also uplift the non-meguca population.
 
...if you're gonna execute someone, why the ever-loving fuck wouldn't you, you know, just shoot their gem or something? Why feed them to despair-based soul abominations, aside from some sadistic cruelty?

o_O
 
I have no idea why feeding familiars in any capacity is being considered... What the fuck?

Hypothetically speaking, in the event of a complete failure to achieve artificial grief removal, fully informed consenting adults might choose assisted suicide, and choose to benefit Meguca in the process. I'm sure you'd get ten or fifteen a year at the least, probably more than that. Even so, it is a horrific thought and well beyond a worst-case outcome in my opinion.
 
I think that we need to move to some variation on "ask Hitomi what she means".

Vote Tally : Puella Magi Adfligo Systema | Page 4205 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6

[X] Calm down. Hold Mami's hand for mutual comfort. Ask Mami to please release Hitomi. You all still need to talk, there's much Sayaka and Hitomi need to know.
-[X] Inform Hitomi there are things she needs to know before judging your actions. The realities Magical Girls face are different, harsher than she knows.
-[X] Sayaka, you have a right to be angry- about things and about this situation, but please don't break any more of Mami's furniture. As a magical girl, you're strong enough to hurt someone or worse, by accident.
[X] Tell Hitomi that you need to ask her a question before you can answer her, and note that as strange as it may seem to her you're really asking in good faith. Then, ask Hitomi what she meant.
-[X] If she brings up Justice proceedings, explain all the ways those can't apply to Magical Girls; the way Kyuubey isolates us from institutions in general and forces Magical Girls to fight each other so survive; that Justice is what we make of it, and by far most strong Magical Girls aren't nearly as nice as Mami who makes the effort and sacrifice to help others. If necessary, mention how we stopped a brewing war in Sendai and helped save as many people as we could, and still at least three people died and with Kyuubey's 'gas explosion' cover up, nobody will ever know why. The only judgement for a magical girl right now is what they impose on each other, and yes, that may be wrong but there is no alternative. Yet.
-[X] If she thinks we took Oriko's arm in exchange for Hitomi's, show disappointment that she'd think we'd be that vindictive and cruel. Everyone but Homura broke or lost a limb that day; Oriko lost both her arm and her head; you spent hours putting her back together. You healed her enough so she could verbally surrender and you could agree on some way to restrain Oriko and Kirika without having to kill them or kick them out of the city to keep burning houses.
--[X] You weren't out for revenge, you just wanted to stop them before anybody else got hurt, or worse. Not completely healing Oriko's arm at the time was a concession so it wasn't just their word that they'd stay under house arrest. Oriko's slowly regenerating her arm on her own, and they haven't tried anything yet, so she should have it back soon.
[X] If they're upset, admit again we made a mistake; we shouldn't have kept this from them. You apologize. You're trying to correct that mistake.
No. of Votes: 23

[x] She nearly took my leg off with a landmine. I've got at least as much right to pass judgment as either of you.
[x] And no, I didn't deliberately take Oriko's arm as some sort of retribution. I would never do such thing. Heck, I didn't take her arm off at all. This was combat. Real battles between magical girls aren't like anime, where they throw glitter at each other and everybody comes out okay. They're brutal, and people get hurt very badly. All of us took injuries that would have hospitalized a normal person. During the fighting Oriko got hit by fire from a medium machine gun. A normal person would have died, but a magical girl can survive anything as long as their Soul Gem is intact. Homura and I spent hours just reattaching her head so we could talk to her.
[x] Or maybe you think that getting shot to pieces and put under house arrest wasn't punishment enough? Well, what would you suggest? Turn her over to the police? Human authorities can't stop a magical girl, and human prisons can't hold them. And that's assuming that the police could even remember that she existed, or have you forgotten about Kyubey's habit of erasing people's memories to keep magic a secret? The only justice for magical girls is what we make for ourselves. So what would you have done? Do you think I should have executed them? Could you have done such a thing? Because I don't think I could. You don't know how hard I had to argue for sparing their lives.
[x] Maybe I should have told you sooner. It's not exactly an easy thing to bring up! I was worried you might do something rash. Which, if you'll note the shards of glass around your feet, turned out to be the case. Maybe I didn't have to right to make that decision, but I wanted to protect you. I didn't want you to end up selling your soul to Kyubey for revenge. I wouldn't want any girl to ever have to subject herself to this life, to being a child soldier for Kyubey, if I could prevent it. God knows I never would have if I hadn't already been dying! But it didn't do any good. You wound up making the contract anyway. It would have been a lot easier to keep this secret forever, but I'm telling you now because I thought you deserved to know the truth. Maybe I was wrong, and if you want to hate me for that, that's your right, but all I ever wanted was to protect the people I care about. All of you.
No. of Votes: 6

[X] to Mami: "Thanks, Mami."
-[X] to Sayaka: "Please give me a moment, in order to hear Hitomi out."
--[X] to Hitomi: "Please explain what you mean by 'pronounce judgement'. I believe we're misunderstanding each other. I'm happy to address all your concerns once I understand them. If you want, I am even willing to show you what happened, though you might not want to see it."
---[X] After Hitomi explains, break back to voting.
No. of Votes: 5

[X] *heavy sigh* "You want to know why I made the choices I did? Why I spared Oriko? Just...sit down for a sec, you two. Nothing I say will get the point across...so I'll have to show you. This'll take a minute, and I'll probably be zoned out while doing it, but it should make things clearer."
[X] Create some Grief VR Goggles (Witchiness is fine) pre-loaded with our memories of the fire, getting blown up, the important parts of the Time Stop Hunt, the battle with OriKiri, qnd the aftermath of the battle. Time Lapse the Healing scenes. Edit the "footage" to skip anything we need to keep secret (the Witchbomb, anything Homura discussed with us in confidance, etcetera). Include audio. No pain, of course.
-[x] Give them to Sayaka and Hitomi.
-[x] "Here. If you want to understand, then watching this will help. We'll talk more after."
No. of Votes: 3

[x] Who does?
[x] Let her get one or two sentences out, then break for vote.
No. of Votes: 2

[X] Then who does, Hitomi? Who can?
No. of Votes: 2

[X] Reassure Mami.
[X] Clearly clarify the extent of your injuries while Hunting Oriko.
[X] Gently explain to Hitomi that slapping a Magical Girl could get her killed.
[X] Tell Sayaka that you are afraid. And you make mistakes out of attempts to protect your family. Them.
[X] Ask Hitomi what she meant.
-[X] If she brings up Justice proceedings, explain all the ways those can't apply to Magical Girls; the way Kyuubey isolates us from institutions in general and forces Magical Girls to fight each other so survive; that Justice is what we make of it, and by far most strong Magical Girls aren't nearly as nice as Mami who makes the effort and sacrifice to help others. If necessary, mention how we stopped a brewing war in Sendai and helped save as many people as we could, and still at least three people died and with Kyuubey's 'gas explosion' cover up, nobody will ever know why.
-[X] If she thinks we took Oriko's arm in exchange for Hitomi's, show disappointed that'd she'd think you'd be so petty. Everyone but Homura broke or lost a limb that day; Oriko lost both her arm and her head; you spent hours putting her back together. You only healed her enough so she could verbally surrender and you could agree on some way to restrain Oriko and Kirika without having to kill them or kick them out of the city to keep burning houses.
--[X] You weren't out for revenge, you just wanted to stop them before anybody else got hurt, or worse. Keeping Oriko and Kirika injured was a concession so it wasn't just their word that they'd stay under house arrest. Oriko's slowly regenerating her arm on her own, and they haven't tried anything yet, so she should have it back soon.
No. of Votes: 2

[X] What do you mean Hitomi?
No. of Votes: 2

[x] God Dammit
[x] "What WOULD give me the right Hitomi? Would losing a lower torso outside of Sayaka's House? Would the perpetual terror that everyone is going to just die when I'm not around work?
[x] A GODDAM WEEK is how long girls last on average.
[x] I could have killed them and we would not be having this conversation. I was inches from doing it, and I decided that it was a hasty and irrational decision that needed to be weighed.
[x] Sorry if I make fucking mistakes in my desperate, fumbling, attempts to keep my family safe.
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Calm down.
-[X] Ask everybody to please sit down. You're trying to make things work right. If they let you, you want to explain what happened, then if they want, they can meet Oriko themselves.
-[X] Mami can let go of Hitomi, and you try to pick up all the glass shards and put them away quickly for now.
[X] The truth of the Magical World is that nobody has the right to pass judgement on anyone. Rather, there's nobody who can pass judgement on Magical Girls besides other, stronger Magical Girls; which usually means one girl kicking another one out of their city... or killing her. It almost came down to that.
-[X] It's something you're trying to change: You thought they deserved to know, and have a voice in this.
[X] Try to explain your motivation: You wanted to contain the situation without anybody dying. It was hard. You had to spend several hours putting Oriko's head back in place after Homura managed to stop her; and that was after Mami and Homura spent more than an hour regrowing all the flesh in your leg.
-[X] At the end, Oriko had reasons for what she did. Terrible reasons, she herself has admitted that she was wrong, but at the end nobody died that day, and not entirely because or our actions. You think Oriko can do better, and needs to assume responsibility for her actions.
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Neko Miko Kaizuki
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Whatever Sereg doesn't vote for.
No. of Votes: 1

[x]Bluntly ask Sayaka and Hitomi what either of them would have done about/in response to Oriko's actions if either of them had been in your shoes.
-[x]And if/when they persist in viewing the situation through a "normal person" lens, point out how the existence of Magical Girls changes the game so much that that perspective doesn't apply anymore.
-[x]When someone inevitably says "you should have told us sooner", calmly respond that the group has already gone over that.
No. of Votes: 1

Total No. of Voters: 50
 
Last edited:
I think that we need to move to some variation on "ask Hitomi what she means".

Vote Tally : Puella Magi Adfligo Systema | Page 4205 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6

[X] Calm down. Hold Mami's hand for mutual comfort. Ask Mami to please release Hitomi. You all still need to talk, there's much Sayaka and Hitomi need to know.
-[X] Inform Hitomi there are things she needs to know before judging your actions. The realities Magical Girls face are different, harsher than she knows.
-[X] Sayaka, you have a right to be angry- about things and about this situation, but please don't break any more of Mami's furniture. As a magical girl, you're strong enough to hurt someone or worse, by accident.
[X] Tell Hitomi that you need to ask her a question before you can answer her, and note that as strange as it may seem to her you're really asking in good faith. Then, ask Hitomi what she meant.
-[X] If she brings up Justice proceedings, explain all the ways those can't apply to Magical Girls; the way Kyuubey isolates us from institutions in general and forces Magical Girls to fight each other so survive; that Justice is what we make of it, and by far most strong Magical Girls aren't nearly as nice as Mami who makes the effort and sacrifice to help others. If necessary, mention how we stopped a brewing war in Sendai and helped save as many people as we could, and still at least three people died and with Kyuubey's 'gas explosion' cover up, nobody will ever know why. The only judgement for a magical girl right now is what they impose on each other, and yes, that may be wrong but there is no alternative. Yet.
-[X] If she thinks we took Oriko's arm in exchange for Hitomi's, show disappointment that she'd think we'd be that vindictive and cruel. Everyone but Homura broke or lost a limb that day; Oriko lost both her arm and her head; you spent hours putting her back together. You healed her enough so she could verbally surrender and you could agree on some way to restrain Oriko and Kirika without having to kill them or kick them out of the city to keep burning houses.
--[X] You weren't out for revenge, you just wanted to stop them before anybody else got hurt, or worse. Not completely healing Oriko's arm at the time was a concession so it wasn't just their word that they'd stay under house arrest. Oriko's slowly regenerating her arm on her own, and they haven't tried anything yet, so she should have it back soon.
[X] If they're upset, admit again we made a mistake; we shouldn't have kept this from them. You apologize. You're trying to correct that mistake.
No. of Votes: 23

[x] She nearly took my leg off with a landmine. I've got at least as much right to pass judgment as either of you.
[x] And no, I didn't deliberately take Oriko's arm as some sort of retribution. I would never do such thing. Heck, I didn't take her arm off at all. This was combat. Real battles between magical girls aren't like anime, where they throw glitter at each other and everybody comes out okay. They're brutal, and people get hurt very badly. All of us took injuries that would have hospitalized a normal person. During the fighting Oriko got hit by fire from a medium machine gun. A normal person would have died, but a magical girl can survive anything as long as their Soul Gem is intact. Homura and I spent hours just reattaching her head so we could talk to her.
[x] Or maybe you think that getting shot to pieces and put under house arrest wasn't punishment enough? Well, what would you suggest? Turn her over to the police? Human authorities can't stop a magical girl, and human prisons can't hold them. And that's assuming that the police could even remember that she existed, or have you forgotten about Kyubey's habit of erasing people's memories to keep magic a secret? The only justice for magical girls is what we make for ourselves. So what would you have done? Do you think I should have executed them? Could you have done such a thing? Because I don't think I could. You don't know how hard I had to argue for sparing their lives.
[x] Maybe I should have told you sooner. It's not exactly an easy thing to bring up! I was worried you might do something rash. Which, if you'll note the shards of glass around your feet, turned out to be the case. Maybe I didn't have to right to make that decision, but I wanted to protect you. I didn't want you to end up selling your soul to Kyubey for revenge. I wouldn't want any girl to ever have to subject herself to this life, to being a child soldier for Kyubey, if I could prevent it. God knows I never would have if I hadn't already been dying! But it didn't do any good. You wound up making the contract anyway. It would have been a lot easier to keep this secret forever, but I'm telling you now because I thought you deserved to know the truth. Maybe I was wrong, and if you want to hate me for that, that's your right, but all I ever wanted was to protect the people I care about. All of you.
No. of Votes: 6

[X] to Mami: "Thanks, Mami."
-[X] to Sayaka: "Please give me a moment, in order to hear Hitomi out."
--[X] to Hitomi: "Please explain what you mean by 'pronounce judgement'. I believe we're misunderstanding each other. I'm happy to address all your concerns once I understand them. If you want, I am even willing to show you what happened, though you might not want to see it."
---[X] After Hitomi explains, break back to voting.
No. of Votes: 5

[X] *heavy sigh* "You want to know why I made the choices I did? Why I spared Oriko? Just...sit down for a sec, you two. Nothing I say will get the point across...so I'll have to show you. This'll take a minute, and I'll probably be zoned out while doing it, but it should make things clearer."
[X] Create some Grief VR Goggles (Witchiness is fine) pre-loaded with our memories of the fire, getting blown up, the important parts of the Time Stop Hunt, the battle with OriKiri, qnd the aftermath of the battle. Time Lapse the Healing scenes. Edit the "footage" to skip anything we need to keep secret (the Witchbomb, anything Homura discussed with us in confidance, etcetera). Include audio. No pain, of course.
-[x] Give them to Sayaka and Hitomi.
-[x] "Here. If you want to understand, then watching this will help. We'll talk more after."
No. of Votes: 3

[x] Who does?
[x] Let her get one or two sentences out, then break for vote.
No. of Votes: 2

[X] Then who does, Hitomi? Who can?
No. of Votes: 2

[X] Reassure Mami.
[X] Clearly clarify the extent of your injuries while Hunting Oriko.
[X] Gently explain to Hitomi that slapping a Magical Girl could get her killed.
[X] Tell Sayaka that you are afraid. And you make mistakes out of attempts to protect your family. Them.
[X] Ask Hitomi what she meant.
-[X] If she brings up Justice proceedings, explain all the ways those can't apply to Magical Girls; the way Kyuubey isolates us from institutions in general and forces Magical Girls to fight each other so survive; that Justice is what we make of it, and by far most strong Magical Girls aren't nearly as nice as Mami who makes the effort and sacrifice to help others. If necessary, mention how we stopped a brewing war in Sendai and helped save as many people as we could, and still at least three people died and with Kyuubey's 'gas explosion' cover up, nobody will ever know why.
-[X] If she thinks we took Oriko's arm in exchange for Hitomi's, show disappointed that'd she'd think you'd be so petty. Everyone but Homura broke or lost a limb that day; Oriko lost both her arm and her head; you spent hours putting her back together. You only healed her enough so she could verbally surrender and you could agree on some way to restrain Oriko and Kirika without having to kill them or kick them out of the city to keep burning houses.
--[X] You weren't out for revenge, you just wanted to stop them before anybody else got hurt, or worse. Keeping Oriko and Kirika injured was a concession so it wasn't just their word that they'd stay under house arrest. Oriko's slowly regenerating her arm on her own, and they haven't tried anything yet, so she should have it back soon.
No. of Votes: 2

[X] What do you mean Hitomi?
No. of Votes: 2

[x] God Dammit
[x] "What WOULD give me the right Hitomi? Would losing a lower torso outside of Sayaka's House? Would the perpetual terror that everyone is going to just die when I'm not around work?
[x] A GODDAM WEEK is how long girls last on average.
[x] I could have killed them and we would not be having this conversation. I was inches from doing it, and I decided that it was a hasty and irrational decision that needed to be weighed.
[x] Sorry if I make fucking mistakes in my desperate, fumbling, attempts to keep my family safe.
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Calm down.
-[X] Ask everybody to please sit down. You're trying to make things work right. If they let you, you want to explain what happened, then if they want, they can meet Oriko themselves.
-[X] Mami can let go of Hitomi, and you try to pick up all the glass shards and put them away quickly for now.
[X] The truth of the Magical World is that nobody has the right to pass judgement on anyone. Rather, there's nobody who can pass judgement on Magical Girls besides other, stronger Magical Girls; which usually means one girl kicking another one out of their city... or killing her. It almost came down to that.
-[X] It's something you're trying to change: You thought they deserved to know, and have a voice in this.
[X] Try to explain your motivation: You wanted to contain the situation without anybody dying. It was hard. You had to spend several hours putting Oriko's head back in place after Homura managed to stop her; and that was after Mami and Homura spent more than an hour regrowing all the flesh in your leg.
-[X] At the end, Oriko had reasons for what she did. Terrible reasons, she herself has admitted that she was wrong, but at the end nobody died that day, and not entirely because or our actions. You think Oriko can do better, and needs to assume responsibility for her actions.
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Neko Miko Kaizuki
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Whatever Sereg doesn't vote for.
No. of Votes: 1

[x]Bluntly ask Sayaka and Hitomi what either of them would have done about/in response to Oriko's actions if either of them had been in your shoes.
-[x]And if/when they persist in viewing the situation through a "normal person" lens, point out how the existence of Magical Girls changes the game so much that that perspective doesn't apply anymore.
-[x]When someone inevitably says "you should have told us sooner", calmly respond that the group has already gone over that.
No. of Votes: 1

Total No. of Voters: 50
What do you mean "move to"? That's what the leading vote does; it just also provides a bit of extra direction in the likely case that Hitomi's answer happens to be one of the two most easy to predict explanations, so the next update isn't 150 words long (followed by another 22 pages of vote wrangling).
 
What do you mean "move to"? That's what the leading vote does; it just also provides a bit of extra direction in the likely case that Hitomi's answer happens to be one of the two most easy to predict explanations, so the next update isn't 150 words long (followed by another 22 pages of vote wrangling).
Except it prefaces the question with "you don't know what you're talking about". Telling Sayaka to calm down is fine, but if you're going to go after Hitomi, put it after the question.
 
After waking up....yeah, @Kaizuki 's vote is mostly good (though I still prefer short vote for clarity), but putting question of "how do you mean" before telling her that she does not have full picture would, IMO, sound less....aggressive? Superior? I-know-better-than-thou? Just would have better tone, IMO.
Also, apologies to @Higure , @Kaizuki and others if I was strawmanning: Kai's vote indeed asks question before answering it. It still, for some reason, assumes only three possible outcomes (I hope this means jump to voting if this was something entirely else) and I have reservation about tone outlined above, but question is there and it most likely won't blow up in our faces.
My bad.
 
Last edited:
@Higure I want to say that what you wrote a page or two ago articulates very well why I am/was really pissed at Sayaka and especially Hitomi, so thank you.

As for the vote, I think I'll stick with what I voted for, but I'm not opposed to the current leader.

Also, I am really liking this 'how to make a not-MSY' discussion. :p
 
Well of course it isn't going to be MSY, for one thing MSY is a republic-company of magical girls, Sabrina is aiming to be God-Empress of the Magical girl empire.

She does? o_O
Wouldn't making it a republic too and offloading empiring to people better suited for it than warhammer-tier subtle Sabrina work better?
She is great enforcer and sole supplier of Empty Seeds so far, but that doesn't make her remotely good leader.
In fact, looking at her lack of patience (Ono, Yuuki) and diplomatic skills (current situation), why would her being Empress be a good idea? Make Mami Empress and Sabrina her loyal henchwoman if you want empire so much.

Also, huuuuuuuuubris.
 
Regarding the idea of showing Sayaka and Hitomi what happened: if you can somehow get them to calm down enough to actually let us do that, I would strongly recommend ditching the VR goggles idea and just making a simple video screen, instead. It's much simpler, less unsettling for the participants, shouldn't require going into a trance, and doesn't depend on two people who don't currently trust us being willing to put some freaky Grief contraption that we whipped up on their heads. Hell, we could make the screen and let the video play in the background while we're talking, if you wanted.
 
Regarding the idea of showing Sayaka and Hitomi what happened: if you can somehow get them to calm down enough to actually let us do that, I would strongly recommend ditching the VR goggles idea and just making a simple video screen, instead. It's much simpler, less unsettling for the participants, shouldn't require going into a trance, and doesn't depend on two people who don't currently trust us being willing to put some freaky Grief contraption that we whipped up on their heads. Hell, we could make the screen and let the video play in the background while we're talking, if you wanted.
Alright Sabrina, prepare your power point :V
 
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