Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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It's enabling bad behavior on her part by rewarding it with an apology and further conceding moral ground when we've already done that as much or more than we should by already apologizing once. Maybe a better analogy is buying a toy for a toddler, after already saying no, because he threw a screaming fit in the middle of the toy store. It's encouraging bad behavior, and at a time when we're about to take Sayaka into a potentially delicate political situation in less than a day.
I think a lot of the disconnect we're having here is because some of us are not seeing the difference between what we're saying and what the two teenage girls are hearing. We are saying "I apologise for my actions, and I'm sorry for any additional pain I've caused." An adult would hear that, but a teenage girl would hear "I'm wrong; you're right; we're going to do what you want now," and then get upset when we don't do what she wants, which is what we're seeing here.
And that's why apologizing again is just going to make things worse. All we're doing by apologizing again is affirming that we think she's right, and that we're wrong. That's not going to defuse the situation; that's just going to confuse them even more, and make them even more upset.
Gadjo
Doka
We were wrong in part to do what we did, and besides writing her off as just a stupid child to be ignored is both insanely disrespectful and also ineffective. It won't do anything. Homura tried it too. It failed miserably. Doing that to Sayaka doesn't make her wonder what she did to make you think that of her, it makes her think you're a condescending asshole and ignore you right back.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
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- Twin Realms Mandala
I don't believe Sabrina needed to apologize either, but Sayaka is not to blame for the vote going that way. People voting to do horrible things to Sayaka is pushing posters to the other side!
Hell, I only started voting in this Quest to vote to not crush Sayaka's gem.
In the choice of apologize or crush Sayaka's gem, I'll grudgingly choose apologize.
Edit:
[X] Speckofstardust
Onmur's vote has changed and Speckofstardust's vote does seem reasonable so far.
Hell, I only started voting in this Quest to vote to not crush Sayaka's gem.
In the choice of apologize or crush Sayaka's gem, I'll grudgingly choose apologize.
Edit:
[X] Speckofstardust
Onmur's vote has changed and Speckofstardust's vote does seem reasonable so far.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
So if someone is acting irrationally there beliefs and thoughts while they are irrational should be completely respected,?
Cause if that is what people think... Can I just laugh here?
anyway.
[x]"Mami please put Hitomi down."
-[x] "Also could the two of you please let me finish explaining what happened that night because I believe you are both jumping to very incorrect conclusions."
--[x] Explain in detail what happened that night after everyone is sitting down, don't leave things out.
Cause if that is what people think... Can I just laugh here?
anyway.
[x]"Mami please put Hitomi down."
-[x] "Also could the two of you please let me finish explaining what happened that night because I believe you are both jumping to very incorrect conclusions."
--[x] Explain in detail what happened that night after everyone is sitting down, don't leave things out.
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Adding?
-[] If Hitomi was talking about taking Oriko's arm in revenge for hers, that was not the case. Magical Girl fights are brutal, fought with weapons supposed to bring down giant monsters, and as long as a Magical Girl's Soul Gem is intact, she can survive and heal back from anything, assuming she can cleanse her own Soul Gem.
--[] Oriko lost an arm and her head during the fight; both Kirika and us got your legs maimed.
--[] If Oriko's still missing her arm, it's not for Hitomi's sake, but because it wasn't necessary for her to have it in order to speak with us and surrender, and because it would've been easier to put her down again, definitely, if she tried to fight us again. She's also slowly been healing it up, so it's not like she lost it forever.
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Gadjo
Doka
She's angry we kept information about someone she believes tried to burn her family alive from her. She's angry, not irrational. Also, "should" doesn't matter here. From a practical standpoint, responding in kind will accomplish nothing.
Edit: Eh, I wouldn't add in that many gory details. That's what pissed Hitomi off in the first place. Don't lie about em, but don't go out of your way to describe the carnage.
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- Location
- South Africa
They should be acknowledged, analysed to determine if they are really irrational (instead of seeming that way due to your own bias), then analysed to determine the underlying desires and feelings they represent, and then how those feelings and desires will be affected by your behaviour should be considered. That doesn't mean that you should pretend stupid ideas aren't stupid. It does mean considering how others are affected by your actions.
EDIT:^ Exactly. There's nothing irrational about their anger anyway.
EDIT: This is another situation where we could really use Hikari.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
-[] If Hitomi was talking about taking Oriko's arm in revenge for hers, that was not the case. Magical Girl fights are brutal, fought with weapons supposed to bring down giant monsters, and as long as a Magical Girl's Soul Gem is intact, she can survive and heal back from anything, assuming she can cleanse her own Soul Gem.
--[] Oriko lost an arm and her head during the fight; both Kirika and us got our legs maimed.
--[] If Oriko's still missing her arm, it's not for Hitomi's sake, but because it wasn't necessary for her to have it in order to speak with us and surrender, and because it would've been easier to put her down again, definitely, if she tried to fight us again. She's also slowly been healing it up, so it's not like she lost it forever.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
No she is pretty irrational, I mean she walked across broken glass, just to yell at us for not telling her sooner about something that she wont even finish telling her what happened, like both of the people her are kinda outright attacking (yes social attacks are still attacks) without leting us explain ourselves fully.
soooooooo, everyone in Rebellion utterly tossed aside Homura's thoughts and feelings and thus deserved what they got?
Gadjo
Doka
She's overreacting, yes. But writing off an angry person as just irrational blinds you to the possible solutions to the conflict.
Also, not usually an argument I'm making, but you can clearly see that's not what Sereg meant. You go ahead and gut that strawman with your pitchfork all you want.
- Location
- South Africa
We deserve to be attacked. We haven't earned the right to give a long, uninterrupted speech about why we did what we did.
Also, Rebellion was all about how people didn't toss aside Homura's thoughts and feelings. The whole thing was done for her. Sayaka even talked about how she sympathises with Homura.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
[] "No right? Hitomi, I'm a magical girl. There aren't magical courts or government, and the rat won't let us use the mundane ones. Magical Girls live in a state of nature, I have the right to do whatever the hell I can get away with. Right now that's keeping Oriko and Kirika from being summarily executed by Homura."
No. End of story.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Look, that attitude isn't healthy, not for ourselves nor for Sayaka.
Sayaka broke the table by accident doing a gesture she's done plenty of times before to no bad consequence, and despite being angry, she hasn't made an attempt to hurt us.
Let Sayaka's opinion matter on whether we deserve to be punched by her, because as far as we can see, she does not agree that we should be punched.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Yes and we hunted down Oriko for the soul purpose to keep her from causing more problems, if what you say is true, Then we have every right to lose our temper at Sayaka and Hitomi for their actions because they have not earned the right to judge us for actions that we are informing them of if they wont even let us finish explaining them.
Just because you are doing something for someone doesn't mean you are in the right, and just because she sympathises doesn't mean she agrees (because if she did she would have been on Homura's side), and considering the fact that Homura acted the way she did because she thought she was a threat to everyone else...... Well given how the story ended she was correct.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
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- Twin Realms Mandala
Sabrina doesn't deserve to be attacked. Sabrina has the right to give a long, uninterrupted speech in the place she calls home.
Mami has the right to wrap unruly guests up in ribbons and/or evict them if they won't behave.
We are only not doing so as a courtesy to our guests, not their 'right'.
How many other families living in that building has Sabrina told about Oriko and Kirika?
[X] to Mami: "Thanks, I really appreciate you!"
-[X] to Sayaka: "Please give me a moment."
--[X] to Hitomi: "You seem to believe I deserve to be punished. I would like to know why."
---[X] after hitomi's answer break to voting.
@Karnewarrior Do you approve of these changes?
Edit: Mainly I realized that other votes are acting like Mami has overeacted, when she acted appropriately and can probably be trusted to know when to let Hitomi go on her own as well.
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Here during the Lichbomb #2, we can observe Sayaka physically assaulting Table-chan:
However, Table-chan takes it like a boss.
Did we ever deign explain to Sayaka her super strenght? Because then we can blame ourselves for the table.
However, Table-chan takes it like a boss.
Did we ever deign explain to Sayaka her super strenght? Because then we can blame ourselves for the table.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
... If sayaka who now has done superhuman strength moments like during the practice spars hasn't realized she has super strength, it is her fault, not ours. (unless of course if you want to go the route were scene we voted to not kill her then we are responsible for everything she does)
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- South Africa
That's just how I see it. As far as I'm concerned, we've done some very bad things, and this is one of them. For us to be punished for it is fair.
Yes, we have that right. There's a reason I actually kind of like Narator's vote. But it's not the only reaction we have a right to have. And it's also probably not the best reaction we have a right to have. Let our actions go beyond the standards of "decent" and "acceptable" and onto "exemplary".
Yes, it doesn't make you in the right, but doing something because you don't care how others are hurt by it means you are in the wrong. Yes, it was my point that you don't have to agree with someone to sympathise with someone. Agreeing with everyone is impossible. I'm not sure what you mean by the rest of the paragraph.
Yes and we hunted down Oriko for the soul purpose to keep her from causing more problems, if what you say is true, Then we have every right to lose our temper at Sayaka and Hitomi for their actions because they have not earned the right to judge us for actions that we are informing them of if they wont even let us finish explaining them.
Just because you are doing something for someone doesn't mean you are in the right, and just because she sympathises doesn't mean she agrees (because if she did she would have been on Homura's side), and considering the fact that Homura acted the way she did because she thought she was a threat to everyone else...... Well given how the story ended she was correct.
Yes, we have that right. There's a reason I actually kind of like Narator's vote. But it's not the only reaction we have a right to have. And it's also probably not the best reaction we have a right to have. Let our actions go beyond the standards of "decent" and "acceptable" and onto "exemplary".
Yes, it doesn't make you in the right, but doing something because you don't care how others are hurt by it means you are in the wrong. Yes, it was my point that you don't have to agree with someone to sympathise with someone. Agreeing with everyone is impossible. I'm not sure what you mean by the rest of the paragraph.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Yeah, sure, we very much noticed Sayaka getting tired of carrying both hers and Hitomi's bags and chose to not comment. We could have very easily made her aware that her super strenght was active at all times and that she didn't need to be transformed to do super feats; and that she didn't need to get tired of carrying shit, etc.
We chose to not do that and knew it perfectly well, so it's far more our fault than hers.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
...
You do realize that my vote has as little hostility as possible right?
You just sound like your unwilling to see the fact that we are not the ones at fault here for once.
Madou Sutegobana
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How about showing Mami some trust? Votes seem to be running on the assumption that she overeacted and/or will keep Hitomi prisoner unless asked to release her.