Just like what happened to Mami during the metabomb.

Are you even understand what you are referencing? Wtf?

"I didn't know we'd get along so well. I- I didn't know we could be friends."

Do you see that period? Do you see it. Because I do. Y'know what we did after that period? We sat there, and we said nothing while Mami freaked out. And you're using that as an argument.

Your viewpoint may have valid concerns but using the metabomb as a counterargument constantly when it just isn't is just coming off as a derp to me.


I rather disagree. The metabomb vote "buried the lead." This is literally as close as you can get to having the "lead" in front. Maybe it should be in front. You could be right about that. I don't think it should be, because I think that that is like saying "they saved your life but also killed your grandmother" as opposed to "they killed your grandmother but also saved your life." The second term gets more stress than the first term, because it is assumed to be in chronological order.
 
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[X] Hannz

That's hilariously flippant. And 'flippant' is not the tone we want when talking about Sayaka's house burning down.

Read it out loud to yourself in a serious and steady tone of voice, Redshirt. Hesitate a little bit right after the "because."

I don't make flippant suggestions for serious issues outside of joking.
 
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I rather disagree. The metabomb vote "buried the lead." This is literally as close as you can get to having the "lead" in front. Maybe it should be in front. You could be right about that. I don't think it should be, because I think that that is like saying "they saved your life but also killed your grandmother" as opposed to "they killed your grandmother but also saved your life." The second term gets more stress than the first term, because it is assumed to be in chronological order.
Assuming chronological order when describing a single event is really weird?

"Your grandmother was going to kill you, so I killed her first" is better than "I killed your grandmother because she was going to kill you" because in the second case you might have to shout your justification over the listener trying to kill you.
 
That's basically what I've been trying to get across, yeah.

I'm well aware of the issue you raise, @Torgamous.

You could be right. I just don't believe you are. I think that between reaction time delay and surprise we would have the one, maybe one point five seconds needed to get the rest out.

But, it doesn't matter. The Hannz vote is fine, and the only reason we're having this argument at this point is for its own sake.
 
In all honesty, I don't think that we're going to get to the Orikobomb in one update anyway. Taking Kyousuke back to the hospital will take a while.

But when it is time to drop the Orikobomb, this is how I think we should do it:

[] Sayaka, I probably should have told you this a long time ago, but... I didn't for the same reason I didn't tell you about Walpurgisnacht sooner. I thought it might push you towards making a contract, and I didn't want you to have to do that. I wouldn't subject any girl to this life if I could prevent it.
[] There's a magical girl named Oriko. Her power is precognition. She sees the future. And when she sees bad things happening in the future, she tries to prevent them. But in the process, she sometimes winds up hurting people. She'll think that the only way to save somebody's life is to break their arm so they can't go where the danger is. I didn't agree, obviously.
[] Anyway, one day Oriko went too far, and we decided we couldn't hold back any longer. We tracked her down and fought her. The three of us against Oriko and her girlfriend, Kirika. They got hurt pretty bad. Oriko lost an arm. But magical girls can survive anything if their soul gem is intact. We made them explain why they did what they did. It was... stupid, and egotistical, and caused way more harm than it needed to, but they thought it was the only way to save a life. It... wasn't evil, really, and I wasn't willing to just execute them for it, so...
[] They're under house arrest, basically. Confined to Oriko's house. Not allowed to leave unsupervised. The sentence is until... well, until Homura can forgive them, so pretty much forever. That's their punishment. And we've put them to work, to atone for what they did. Kirika was a big help when we stopped the fighting in Ishinomaki and Sendai, and Oriko's predictions helped us prevent a lot of bad stuff. That night the witch kissed you... we never would have known if she hadn't warned us. She saved your life.
[] But... I don't think you're going to want to thank her for it. I'm hoping I can talk you out of killing her outright. Because, Sayaka... she's the one who burned down your apartment building. I'm sorry.
 
In all honesty, I don't think that we're going to get to the Orikobomb in one update anyway. Taking Kyousuke back to the hospital will take a while.

But when it is time to drop the Orikobomb, this is how I think we should do it:

[] Sayaka, I probably should have told you this a long time ago, but... I didn't for the same reason I didn't tell you about Walpurgisnacht sooner. I thought it might push you towards making a contract, and I didn't want you to have to do that. I wouldn't subject any girl to this life if I could prevent it.
[] There's a magical girl named Oriko. Her power is precognition. She sees the future. And when she sees bad things happening in the future, she tries to prevent them. But in the process, she sometimes winds up hurting people. She'll think that the only way to save somebody's life is to break their arm so they can't go where the danger is. I didn't agree, obviously.
[] Anyway, one day Oriko went too far, and we decided we couldn't hold back any longer. We tracked her down and fought her. The three of us against Oriko and her girlfriend, Kirika. They got hurt pretty bad. Oriko lost an arm. But magical girls can survive anything if their soul gem is intact. We made them explain why they did what they did. It was... stupid, and egotistical, and caused way more harm than it needed to, but they thought it was the only way to save a life. It... wasn't evil, really, and I wasn't willing to just execute them for it, so...
[] They're under house arrest, basically. Confined to Oriko's house. Not allowed to leave unsupervised. The sentence is until... well, until Homura can forgive them, so pretty much forever. That's their punishment. And we've put them to work, to atone for what they did. Kirika was a big help when we stopped the fighting in Ishinomaki and Sendai, and Oriko's predictions helped us prevent a lot of bad stuff. That night the witch kissed you... we never would have known if she hadn't warned us. She saved your life.
[] But... I don't think you're going to want to thank her for it. I'm hoping I can talk you out of killing her outright. Because, Sayaka... she's the one who burned down your apartment building. I'm sorry.

Hannz vote already does it.

And this:

I don't support opening by apologizing for not telling her sooner, or making excuses as to why we didn't. Close with an apology and give no reasons. We can't go around saying we wouldn't "subject" anybody to "this life" when we are living it happily and well, and for that matter it's not like it's our choice whether or not she contracts.

[] There's a magical girl named Oriko. Her power is precognition. She sees the future. And when she sees bad things happening in the future, she tries to prevent them. But in the process, she sometimes winds up hurting people. She'll think that the only way to save somebody's life is to break their arm so they can't go where the danger is. I didn't agree, obviously.

@Redshirt Army you take this one, because this is exactly what I was saying earlier before we talked.

[] Anyway, one day Oriko went too far, and we decided we couldn't hold back any longer. We tracked her down and fought her. The three of us against Oriko and her girlfriend, Kirika. They got hurt pretty bad. Oriko lost an arm. But magical girls can survive anything if their soul gem is intact. We made them explain why they did what they did. It was... stupid, and egotistical, and caused way more harm than it needed to, but they thought it was the only way to save a life. It... wasn't evil, really, and I wasn't willing to just execute them for it, so...

Whitewashes the events of that night. I'd much rather not whitewash exactly those things because the full story is A) much more effective against Sayaka's inevitable desire for justice/revenge and B) much more accurate depiction of magical girl hostilities.

[] They're under house arrest, basically. Confined to Oriko's house. Not allowed to leave unsupervised. The sentence is until... well, until Homura can forgive them, so pretty much forever. That's their punishment. And we've put them to work, to atone for what they did. Kirika was a big help when we stopped the fighting in Ishinomaki and Sendai, and Oriko's predictions helped us prevent a lot of bad stuff. That night the witch kissed you... we never would have known if she hadn't warned us. She saved your life.

Doesn't make any mention of them reforming, implies we're pressing them into service which we aren't. All their activities have been entirely voluntary.

[] But... I don't think you're going to want to thank her for it. I'm hoping I can talk you out of killing her outright. Because, Sayaka... she's the one who burned down your apartment building. I'm sorry.

This is 65% of the way to the suggestion we made to Mami earlier which she shot down.

Lastly, just want to say I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Apologies.
 
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[] There's a magical girl named Oriko. Her power is precognition. She sees the future. And when she sees bad things happening in the future, she tries to prevent them. But in the process, she sometimes winds up hurting people. She'll think that the only way to save somebody's life is to break their arm so they can't go where the danger is. I didn't agree, obviously.

There's a natural tendency to feel sympathy towards Oriko - she's suffering, in a bad spot, and she hasn't been an active antagonist in this thread since page 200. But in-character, she burned Sayaka's house down less than two weeks ago.

And the playerbase (and as a result, Sabrina) utterly rejected Oriko's reasoning that her actions were necessary. Saying "I didn't agree" massively undersells the level of vitriol directed at Oriko at that time - the vote block towards simply executing her was sizable throughout our interrogation of her.

The pursuit of Oriko remains the most angry Sabrina has ever been throughout the entire course of the quest - she pushed us further than we have ever been pushed, both before and since. We threatened to witch out Kirika in front of Oriko's eyes just to make her talk.

So, yes, we didn't agree with Oriko's reasoning (understatement of the year). So why are we telling that load of shit to Sayaka, then? It's disingenuous, and whitewashing our reactions has a real risk of Sayaka seeing it as us "taking Oriko's side".
 
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Hannz vote already does it.
No, it doesn't. It hardly explains anything before dropping "Oriko burned down your house" in Sayaka's lap.

Whitewashes the events of that night. I'd much rather not whitewash exactly those things because the full story is A) much more effective against Sayaka's inevitable desire for justice/revenge and B) much more accurate depiction of magical girl hostilities.
How does what I wrote whitewash that night, pray tell? Do you think I went into insufficient detail regarding Oriko's injuries? Should I mention her near-decapitation? Note that Hannz's vote says literally nothing about fighting Oriko, but that didn't seem to bother you.

And the playerbase (and as a result, Sabrina) utterly rejected Oriko's reasoning that her actions were necessary. Saying "I didn't agree" massively undersells the level of vitriol directed at Oriko at that time - the vote block towards simply executing her was sizable throughout our interrogation of her.
*shrug* I can dial up the rage, if you think that will help. But again, the vote that you're currently voting for doesn't say anything about us being upset with Oriko for what she did.
 
the vote that you're currently voting for doesn't say anything about us being upset with Oriko for what she did.

Because it doesn't go in depth. It gives an inceredibly abreviated list of the pertinent facts, then breaks to voting to address Sayaka's response. When we do go in depth (ie the update after the next), I'll want to provide a far less whitewashed summary of events than your protovote.
 
Because it doesn't go in depth. It gives an inceredibly abreviated list of the pertinent facts, then breaks to voting to address Sayaka's response.
I think it's lacking some pretty damn pertinent facts that will be necessary to keep Sayaka's response from rendering her incapable of hearing that in-depth explanation.

Seriously, you don't think that we should go into detail before dropping the bomb, but you don't think my explanation goes into enough detail? That's completely contradictory.
 
I think it's lacking some pretty damn pertinent facts that will be necessary to keep Sayaka's response from rendering her incapable of hearing that in-depth explanation.

Seriously, you don't think that we should go into detail before dropping the bomb, but you don't think my explanation goes into enough detail? That's completely contradictory.

I don't think it is. I feel your vote is too long to be a decent introductory statement, and not fleshed out enough to be a decent full explanation. That's not a contradictory position.
 
I feel your vote is too long to be a decent introductory statement, and not fleshed out enough to be a decent full explanation.
And I think that Hannz's vote is completely devoid of introductory statement, and basically drops the big reveal in Sayaka's lap out of nowhere with no attempt to soften the blow or provide context, on the assumption that we'll be able to talk her down after the fact. I think that's a potential disaster.


[x] I hope everyone saved room for ice cream!
-[x] Offer everyone ice cream.
[x] Play with Nagisa until Shin comes to pick her up.
[x] Offer everyone their pick of the leftovers.
-[x] Make sure that Homura takes some. They can stay fresh in her shield forever, and she should have something to eat besides instant noodles.
[x] Ask Sayaka if we can talk with her after she's done taking Kyousuke back.
-[x] Create privacy construct and let Mami and Homura know that we think this is probably the best time to tell Sayaka about Oriko. If we keep putting it off, Kyubey might tell her to try and turn her against us. Are they okay with that?
--[x] Find a private setting to talk to Sayaka.
[x] There's a magical girl named Oriko. Her power is precognition. She sees the future. And when she foresaw bad things happening in the future, she tried to prevent them. But in the process, she wound up hurting people. She convinced herself that the only way to save somebody's life was to break their arm so they couldn't go where the danger was. I couldn't accept that, so we were enemies right from the start.
[x] One day Oriko went too far. She decided that the best way to prevent a vision of someone dying was to do something that hurt a lot of people. I was furious. We went looking for her to take her down, and we found her. The three of us against Oriko and her girlfriend, Kirika. It was an ugly fight. I broke Kirika's leg and she broke my arm. Homura nearly decapitated Oriko with a machine gun. But magical girls can survive anything if their soul gem is intact. We put Oriko back together and made her explain why she did what she did. I was so angry. I threatened to do some pretty awful things. Part of me wanted to kill her. But, I... I just couldn't. What she did was... completely wrong and ill-conceived and caused way more harm than it needed to, but she thought it was the only way to save a life. She's... not evil, really. Just misguided.
[x] So I spared them. They're basically under house arrest. Confined to Oriko's house and not allowed to leave unsupervised, until further notice. That's their punishment. They've even been helping us, to atone for what they did. Kirika was a big help when we stopped the fighting in Ishinomaki and Sendai, and Oriko's predictions helped us save a lot of lives. That night the witch kissed you... we never would have known if she hadn't warned us. She saved your life that night.
[x] Sayaka, the thing she did that made us so angry that I almost killed her, the reason that this has been so hard to tell you... is because she's the one who burned down your apartment building. I'm sorry.

EDIT: Added checking with Mami and Homura before proceeding.
 
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[X]the Narrator

Although, if you don't like the fluffy bit about lazing about being full, how about a different one:

[ ] Remark to everyone that Homura needs to eat more, but she sure did tonight. Maybe Mami and Madoka have the magic touch?
-[ ] Suggest that we trade off with Madoka making lunches for Homura; Sabrina and Mami make extra one day, and Madoka takes over the next day.
 
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