- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Absolutely agreed on all points. The best way of dissuading Madoka from contracting is letting her know that she'd hurt Homura doing it.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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Absolutely agreed on all points. The best way of dissuading Madoka from contracting is letting her know that she'd hurt Homura doing it.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Then all the same points apply. Unless Sabrina or Homura is dead, don't contract. Otherwise you will basically traumatize Homura irrevocably. For like the 101st time.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I'll throw in the side point that letting Madoka's family in on what's happening will probably also make her less likely to contract.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
100% yes. Tell Junko, atleast. Holy fuck. She'll stomp this fire out HARD.
Also, the more people who know their loved ones are Meguca, the better. The Masquerade literally ONLY benefits Kyubey, as it's eerily similar to how cults and abusers emotionally isolate their victims to get greater control over them. Making sure a Magical Girl still has her support network is the best deterrent to prevent Witch Outs besides our Cleansing Hax. Tell Junko and Tomohisa. Tell the Mikis. Tell Ms. Saotome, fuck it.
Yea you can make arguments about how telling the whole world is possibly a bad idea, but people who genuinely love you on a personal level? There is no reason not to tell them, and the trope of "it'll endanger them" doesn't apply to this setting and "they'll be scared of you/isolated" is total actual bullshit spun by people who probably are gross lonely otaku.
Shit let's meet Junko and just do magic infront of her.
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
Not to mention putting in a bit of effort on making the marbles we feed to coobie more energy-efficient might make him somewhat less aggressive on the contracting side of things.
And even if it doesn't, it's not like the heat death of the universe is a good thing. And if he was lying about that then... I mean, we're giving the incubators their power source anyway so there's not much reason outside of spite or laziness not to at least put a bit of experimentation on making it more efficient. Basically the next time we talk to Kyubey we ask him if he can think of a way our grief marbles might be more efficient in his reactors, and if so then we make them work that way as best we can before we feed him.
And even if it doesn't, it's not like the heat death of the universe is a good thing. And if he was lying about that then... I mean, we're giving the incubators their power source anyway so there's not much reason outside of spite or laziness not to at least put a bit of experimentation on making it more efficient. Basically the next time we talk to Kyubey we ask him if he can think of a way our grief marbles might be more efficient in his reactors, and if so then we make them work that way as best we can before we feed him.
Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What do we do when Incubator starts wiping their memories without bothering to ask about it, first? That certainly can't be good for Sayaka's and Doka's mental health when QB starts swiss-cheesing their parent's minds.
- Location
- Illinois
- Location
- Canada
We could ask Kyuubey to promise not to do that in exchange for our assurance that we'll try to fix the entropy problem.
This too.
- Location
- Illinois
Man if QB thought we were worth a damn on that front he'd already be falling over his ass for us. Or trying to find a way to witch us over fucking madoka because potential mechanics.
- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
That's probably inaccurate. Sure, I'll accept that the masquerade does more harm than good (for the girls, leaving aside the ethical concerns of greater contract/witching chances), but saying it only helps Kyubey is almost certainly too general. Off the top of my head, it removes (some) malignant social pressures, and ensures that people can at least wish for what they think they want, which while not as good as wishing for what they actually want is probably a lot better than wishing for what some society convinced them they want. Additionally, it prevents people (esp dictators) from wishfarming their way to victory via indoctrination and kidnapping (even attempting it would be very bad, regardless of the results). There's probably even more I can't think of, although admittedly very few of these couldn't be solved.
There is totally reasons not to tell them. First off, not everybody cares for others as much as people think they do, and people in general can't keep secrets for shit. Telling close people as a general strategy for meguca will end up with it as common knowledge within the year. The isolation is a thing, albeit an avoidable one- people who are different stand out. While most people will probably handle it well, there will be bullying, jealousy, and suspicion.
Tl;Dr
-In this specific case, the masquerade is a negative
-In general, it does a lot of damage for whatever good it does
-It does, however, serve a purpose
bird_poison
Knowing their wrath, unfettered and raw
- Location
- margarita
We cannot let the f&f know the truth for one simple reason: The incubator.
It can undo the memories trivially, it can use said memories as a weapon, it can use f&f as a weapon too.
For now they are outside its consideration, but a great deal of our true war is against it, and involving them is involving them in a conflict against the most powerful entity currently existing, that we know of.
It can undo the memories trivially, it can use said memories as a weapon, it can use f&f as a weapon too.
For now they are outside its consideration, but a great deal of our true war is against it, and involving them is involving them in a conflict against the most powerful entity currently existing, that we know of.
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- Location
- Illinois
- Location
- South Africa
As I've said before, regardless of what the PSP endings say, in all of them, it is literally impossible for Madoka to survive to adulthood uncontracted. Even if Urobuchi himself said otherwise, it would just mean he had failed to properly consider the inevitable results of his own creation. If he has to, Kyuubey will destroy the entire human race if that's what it takes to convince Madoka to contract. If she survives Wapurgisnacht, Kyuubey is forced to, by his own system of behaviour, become ever more coercive. I can easily see Kyuubey telling Madoka that he will destroy one city every hour until she contracts. I can see him feeding her family members to witches, one at a time, in front of her, until she contracts. I can see him creating a more powerful Walpurgisnacht every day until she contracts. I can see him dropping a new witch on top of her every instant the previous one is defeated until she contracts. This is stuff he's forced t do. He is incapable of failing to escalate.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Uh yea as I said in the post I was quoting I was specifically talking about friends and family.
And Kyubey's not going to fucking mindwipe people, Jesus you guys. His whole thing is having a perceived moral high ground based on never lying or breaking his word and treating us as 'equals'. If we tell him not to mindwipe people and he says okay, he's not going to. Period.
Now, trying to use Adult Fears and Parental Worries to try to use Mikimoms and Tomohisas and such as pawns on the board, sure.
You pretty much pulled all of this out of your ass, Sereg.
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- Location
- Illinois
Sereg, this is very dependent on the potential mechanic. Madoka's potential is drawn from the timeloop. If the timeloop ends, that potential vanishes. If Homura retains the power to timetravel after the loop ends, that potential might be recreatable... Or it might not, if Madoka loses all her potential instead of just what's drawn from the loops.
Properly executed -- Homura's nature as a time traveller not being revealed to QB -- you'd be flat out wrong.
His argument isn't wrong, Aura. If Madoka still had her potential after the loop... Why wouldn't QB escalate? Of course he would. Overblown? Possibly. Wrong? No. Based on faulty assumptions? Yes.
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Even if Madoka's potential DOESN'T disappear, Kyubey is basically a robot bound by his ethical guidelines. He very explicitly does not cause wars, influence human cultures, destroy cities to get what he wants, or anything of the sort. He's all about parasitically feeding on what's already there while saying carefully worded things so he can stir the pot while holding moral unaccountability.
If was was willing to do this shit he'd of nuked Sendai while we were over there to keep us from cockblocking Madoka.
If was was willing to do this shit he'd of nuked Sendai while we were over there to keep us from cockblocking Madoka.
Script Mak3r
(Verified Sun God) (Verified Feathers)
- Location
- Hell of Blazing Fires
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Contractblocking, perhaps? I'm fairly certain that Madoka doesn't secretly have, you know, male parts.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
I wasn't going to go there but okay, thanks for making it weird.
- Location
- Illinois
Not all of what Sereg is arguing is equivalent to nuking sendai. Dropping witches is probably right up QB's alley.
His argument is overblown, not wrong. QB would absolutely be out to get Madoka.
... I do disagree with his "not survive to adulthood" assertion. QB has limited resources while he's operating inside constraints, and an aging, stabilizing holy quintet is a very, very powerful force.
However, absent Sabrina... I do think QB would be quite capable of screwing the situation over. All he has to do is stop making contracts, and suddenly Madoka and co. Are faced with "Madowish to change things or we all die a slow death and Madoka is alone," right?
bird_poison
Knowing their wrath, unfettered and raw
- Location
- margarita
Yes, that's just a minor fear of mine.
Thats a major fear of mine. I'm positive the incubator will get them killed to force a contract, even within its limited approach.
You'd be surprised how easy it is to destabilize a group. And how easy it is to make a witch hatch in a bedroom in the middle of the night.
- Location
- Illinois
I think you're underestimating Homu. But that's just me.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
He would literally never pass up contracts. And yea, he probably drops some Grief Seeds around, but that's nothing Sabrina can't handle to be honest, and he can't take the risk of alienating Madoka or accidentally getting her killed, so he won't dump too many.
I was thinking more trying to emotionally manipulate them, which honestly probably won't work if they're informed enough. As for getting them killed to force a contract, well...That'd be a risk even if they were totally in the dark. Enlightening them doesn't make them meaningfully bigger targets because if it was the right move to play he'd so so anyway.
Eh. There's a reason Kyubey targets teenagers and avoids the attention of emotionally mature, experienced adults who know how to spot abusers. And hatching witches in a bedroom's a good idea of getting your golden goose egg.
We could also have Madoka make threats. "Do any of <That shit> and I'll wish away your ability to make any more contracts, forever."
- Location
- South Africa
Nope. Everything is based on on-screen evidence. We've seen him deliberately cause deaths. We've seen him kidnap. We've seen him use families against meguca. We've seen him using Wapurisnacht, we know he plants witches, we know that nothing is more important to him than delaying heat death, we know that the entire planet is trivial compared to Madoka, as far as he's concerned, we know he's planning for Madoka to be contracted by Walpurgisnacht and that he's known she's coming for ages, we know that anti-planet witches exist and do not concern him. We knw that playing fair is not only not celebrated in his culture, but considered really stupid. You're the one making claims with no evidence.
Madoka has her potential because 100 universes were created entirely for her. As such, she is the most important person in 100 universes and has more potential than everyone in the entire Universe who has ever lived, added together, and multiplied by 100. That can only be changed retroactively.
Kyuubey is morally and ethically bound to escalate. Refusing to do so would be against his demonstrated morals and ethics. He has never demonstrated that he cares about moral unaccountably. He farms us. Of course he influences our culture. I need citations for these things he "explicitly" does not do. He drops witches. We know he does. Some witches are city or even planetbusters. The evidence supports me.
Kyuubey is patient. This is well known. This isn't evidence of anything.
I consider this a severe underestimation of Kyuubey.
Exactly.