Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Fucking hell, fine. Pointless micromanagement added.
- Location
- Illinois
I think I disapprove of it. It seems ridiculous to try to make sure she's listening to us. What, are we going to tell her to listen to us? While we're both crying out eyes out and hugging the daylights out of each other? What the hell else is she doing? Doesn't it seem rude to say something like that now?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Look to see she's reacting. If she's not, she's not listening right now, either prod her or shut up.
- Location
- Illinois
Okay, I like that. Now
Take this and make it do that.
Is not doing that.
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I disagree that this was manipulative. My definition of manipulation is that it is using your knowledge of someone to try to get them to act differently than they would if they had access to all the facts. If Mami had known all the facts from the start, would she still have wanted to be friends with Sabrina? I suppose it's impossible to be sure, but I'm pretty sure that the answer is "yes". At any rate, any manipulation towards friendship based on meta-knowledge was unintentional.
To be quite fair, though, Sabrina is manipulative, at least when it comes to hiding information from people. This is primarily in an effort to prevent Mami (and others) from freaking out - which they definitely would do if they had access to all the facts. But the friendship between Mami and Sabrina is not based on manipulation; if anything, the friendship came first and the manipulation second.
I agree that Mami's reaction seems rather out of proportion to what it should have been. IMHO a big part of the problem is that Sabrina approached things by saying that it was awful, putting it off for days and letting Mami stew on the fact that it was going to be a "horrible revelation". And Sabrina was tense and nervous and that just confirmed to Mami that the news was bad news. If Sabrina had played things more casually and had simply told Mami that one of the things that was stuck into her head when she lost her memory was random information about people's lives "like memories of watching a movie", then that would put things into the proper perspective. It would also have reminded Mami that the price that Sabrina payed for the meta-knowledge was a complete lack of memories and friends. I don't know how much of this will register if we tell Mami now, but we might as well try:
[x] Godwinson
Unrelated Note: the readers know what Mami is thinking and feeling after reading this chapter from her perspective. And Sabrina knows what the thread knows. There's nothing there that will particularly surprise her, but at the same time she probably shouldn't tell Mami about the meta-mind reading. It's not a skill that can be used consistently, anyway.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Okay, folks, no reason to panic. This doesn't change the current situation, and I don't think it should change our plan to let Mami calm down and get her bearings before we try to continue the metabomb.
I think we should stick with the current plan:
[X] Onmur
We intend to. But first we want to make sure that she's calm enough to actually process what we're saying. We don't want to pile a massive info dump onto her if she's still upset and uncertain of our feelings. We don't want her to start freaking out three sentences in like she did last time.
I think we should stick with the current plan:
[X] Onmur
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I see Godwinson's point. Maybe Mami could really use reassurances right now before 'calming down' a bit.
But I'm concerned she might not be in a state to listen, or even want to listen at all.
My first vote for this was basically:
[ ] Cry.
[ ] Clean up a little.
[ ] Ask Mami to finish telling her what you were telling her.
But concerns were raised, so changed to asking Mami if she wants to talk.
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pantherasapiens
you were always my best friend
- Location
- somewhere over your shoulder
*pinches nose-bridge*
Look, I don't want to sound hostile. But if you're going to talk about me, you might have the decency to add the little @ in front so I at least am alerted to it.
Though I freely acknowledge that Firn is much more benevolent and precognitive than I can ever be!
On topic - it might be an idea to examine where the relationship should go from here. We already know Mami's weaknesses and desires, to some extent, but what are our own? We should be able to at least sit down with her at some point and discuss them - if nothing else it'll be a nice change from psyche-destroying revelations.
- Location
- Illinois
Yknow
Godwinson vote is basically this line but 1000x better. The two votes aren't particularly mutually exclusive. Just saying.
Other than that... @Godwinson I said this like 5 times during last vote -- I'm not saying that as a reprimand or or anything im just a catgirl dammit -- and ima say it again: the construction of "Blah blah I like/d you But I had to be honest with you" -- dem connotations are bigger than they need to be. Possible reading as "i like/d you but i had to be honest with you -implication that being honest is breaking whatever there was before-." Don't put a But after saying we like/d her, regardless of eventual context? Or clarify it? Or something? Statement still works even if you delete "but," even if it becomes a little strange...
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
You want to create a monster.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
They kind of are. Onmur's vote is to focus on letting Mami recover for a bit, then gauge how she's doing before deciding if she's ready for us to continue. Godwinson's vote wants to finish telling Mami the metabomb right now.
Believe me, I'm itching to come clean to Mami and finish telling her the metabomb. But I don't want to have a repeat of our first attempt where we're trying to tell her things while she's freaking out and hearing absolutely none of it. I think she'll be better able to accept what we're trying to tell her after she's had a chance to recover a little bit.
I think that we definitely want to remain her friend and keep living with her. (I really want to, at some point in this conversation, tell Mami that she's the closest thing that we have to family.) We're going to have to put off any discussion of romance for the foreseeable future, because with how unsteady Mami is right now we'd be concerned about possibly taking advantage of her. (If Mami brings it up, I suggest we put it off by saying we're not ready yet. It's essentially true, and doesn't hurt her feelings by implying that she's an undesirable partner.)
- Location
- Illinois
Nooooooooo...? I was angling more for
[] Godwinson
[] Onmur next post
Nop. Look at godwinson's closer. There's zilch there we haven't already said. It's a much-needed clarification of everything we've told her -- FUCK that "didn't know we could be friends" line -- and it very much accomplishes -reassuring mami -reaffirming we want to stay with her -we're sorry for hurting her. I don't see the disconnect you're talking about at all.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
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[X] Godwinson
At least it gets the bare minimum of information out there, though it would be nice if Mami asks some follow-up questions.
At least it gets the bare minimum of information out there, though it would be nice if Mami asks some follow-up questions.
- Location
- Illinois
"To be happy, together." -- too early. Direct contradiction of the earlier thingy, which despite being a fuckup was true.
When you first met, it was so perfect -- weeeeeirrrrd. Imo. Idk. Sorta makes implications about... About things and stuff? Rofl. Uhhhh complaint here officially is that... Is that I think we should stick with framing things as being "I met you and wanted you to not be lonely, then things escalated and now I want to stay with you." Calling things when we first met perfect is, regardless of context, an emphasis on the early parts of the relationship, not the latter.
I knew that you were lonely, and I knew why, and that I wanted to make it so you weren't lonely any more. I wanted to make you happy, but I didn't expect you to make me so happy. I don't want to lose that, Mami. I don't want to lose you. But I couldn't stand keeping the truth from you. I'm sorry." -- this part of the godwinson vote corresponds to your desires to affirm our wish to stay and etc, it should still be in at the end of the other stuff.
God I'm so bad at this right now >.>
Suggestion: You're so sorry. You wanted to make her happy. When you woke up in that alley, you were alone, and you didn't know anything about yourself, but you did know things about others, like somebody had shoved the few most important pages of a bunch of biographies in your head. You knew enough about people to want them to be happy, and for Mami, that meant a friend so she wouldn't be lonely anymore. You wanted to make her happy, that was all, and then she made you happy, too. And it grew. You don't want to lose that. You don't want to lose her. And that made you scared to tell her the truth and you're so sorry it took this long.
Little closer to godwinson, little bit of stuff stripped out, little bit of stuff added. Uh... Idk. Gah, I should be able to provide specific analysis instead of a suggestion. I'll try again later.
When you first met, it was so perfect -- weeeeeirrrrd. Imo. Idk. Sorta makes implications about... About things and stuff? Rofl. Uhhhh complaint here officially is that... Is that I think we should stick with framing things as being "I met you and wanted you to not be lonely, then things escalated and now I want to stay with you." Calling things when we first met perfect is, regardless of context, an emphasis on the early parts of the relationship, not the latter.
I knew that you were lonely, and I knew why, and that I wanted to make it so you weren't lonely any more. I wanted to make you happy, but I didn't expect you to make me so happy. I don't want to lose that, Mami. I don't want to lose you. But I couldn't stand keeping the truth from you. I'm sorry." -- this part of the godwinson vote corresponds to your desires to affirm our wish to stay and etc, it should still be in at the end of the other stuff.
God I'm so bad at this right now >.>
Suggestion: You're so sorry. You wanted to make her happy. When you woke up in that alley, you were alone, and you didn't know anything about yourself, but you did know things about others, like somebody had shoved the few most important pages of a bunch of biographies in your head. You knew enough about people to want them to be happy, and for Mami, that meant a friend so she wouldn't be lonely anymore. You wanted to make her happy, that was all, and then she made you happy, too. And it grew. You don't want to lose that. You don't want to lose her. And that made you scared to tell her the truth and you're so sorry it took this long.
Little closer to godwinson, little bit of stuff stripped out, little bit of stuff added. Uh... Idk. Gah, I should be able to provide specific analysis instead of a suggestion. I'll try again later.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
What if it were present tense instead of past tense?
That is true, after all.
If we're going to proceed straight to the info without giving her any more time to recover, then I think that line or something like it is a vital addition to provide her with some emotional reassurance and head off her abandonment issues before we resuming talking about our metaknowledge. Leaving it later in the dialogue risks her having another breakdown before we get the chance to say it.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I'm at the PM graveyard, throwing Frankenvotes back and forth with a fish.
[] Let it all out.
-[] Hold each other together until you both feel better.
-[] Keep reassuring Mami.
--[] You're so sorry, you never wanted to hurt her. You wanted to make her happy. To be happy, together.
--[] Mami... We knew she was nice and kind, before we met. She's amazing, not just as a magical girl, but for who she is as a person. We knew she deserved better, and we thought we could make her happy, if only we were good enough. We wanted to make her happy. None of that was an act, or fake. We care about her, and we have from the start.
--[] We want her to be happy. Not to hurt her like this. We're so sorry.
-[] Cleanse Soul Gems as necessary; warn/ask Mami before doing it.
But still don't think we should throw this at Mami until she's clean and sitting down, instead of collapsed and sobbing on top of Brina. And still should ask if she wants to talk it out right now.
[] Let it all out.
-[] Hold each other together until you both feel better.
-[] Keep reassuring Mami.
--[] You're so sorry, you never wanted to hurt her. You wanted to make her happy. To be happy, together.
--[] Mami... We knew she was nice and kind, before we met. She's amazing, not just as a magical girl, but for who she is as a person. We knew she deserved better, and we thought we could make her happy, if only we were good enough. We wanted to make her happy. None of that was an act, or fake. We care about her, and we have from the start.
--[] We want her to be happy. Not to hurt her like this. We're so sorry.
-[] Cleanse Soul Gems as necessary; warn/ask Mami before doing it.
But still don't think we should throw this at Mami until she's clean and sitting down, instead of collapsed and sobbing on top of Brina. And still should ask if she wants to talk it out right now.
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