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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Kaizuki said:
Thats a load of bullshit. It's true, sure, but that's not why we've been afraid to tell her. Not after the lichbomb showed us that we can handle situations like that.
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It's true that that's not why we've been putting it off, but it is, I think, part of why we didn't tell her immediately. I also think that was a poor decision, but I wasn't around when we broke Kyubey's hold. That was when we should have dropped all of the various bombs, by my reckoning. People don't respond well to having to reforge their perceptions, but it's easier for them to do it all at once rather than piecemeal.

But we've made our bed, now we have to figure out how to get Mami to lay in it with us instead of shattering.
 
Briefvoice said:
Am I going to be the only one with the guts to write a response that drops the L-lord?
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I considered it, but I just don't think now is a good time to spring that on her. She's already freaking out, and if she's currently upset with us then a declaration of love may not garner a positive response. Plus, having to decide whether to accept would just be even more stress on her at an already stressful time.

And hell, "practically my family" is a pretty strong statement unto itself.

RagnorakTres said:
Also I sort of feel like that's a little underhanded. Confessions shouldn't be dropped in the middle of emotional breakdowns because they transition easily into emotional blackmail: "I love you, now just forget that I turned your entire perception of me on its head."
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Also that. It could come off like "manipulative boyfriend trying to get out of the argument" to her.

Plus the "Mami is too emotionally fragile to give informed consent" concern that has kept us from addressing romantic possibilities up until now has not gotten any less true in the last five minutes.

bird_poison said:
That's what we should tell her. We are not just afraid of being booted out, we actively fear for her life. We know she's going to die, unless we do something.
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I feel like I covered that with the "the last secret I told you hurt you, and I was afraid of hurting you again" bit. Mami is aware of the fact that negative emotions can kill her. Especially if we have to remind her to cleanse her soul gem at some point during this.
 
RagnorakTres said:
That was when we should have dropped all of the various bombs, by my reckoning. People don't respond well to having to reforge their perceptions, but it's easier for them to do it all at once rather than piecemeal.
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I disagree. Dropping all of them at once would have broken her too badly, beyond the point of salvage. At best, she'd be an empty shell that just stared blankly at a wall. More likely, suicide.
 
All in all, that went fairly well. She is still willing to listen, we don't have to destroy her for the greater good, and she's not spiralling.

Also, next time we need to shake the worldview of someone? We must be ready to inmobilize. This was clearly a failure on our part.
 
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But our hands are tied so we can't hug teh Mumi, or hold teh Mumi so she doesn't do something silly.

So we should use the only alternative we've left.

[Q] Chew on Mami's hair.
 
The Narrator said:
Are we sure about that? Her gem was at half-full when we cleaned it and startled her into cocooning us. We don't yet know how quickly it's currently refilling.
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She may be panicking/grieving on her own, but we removed (par of) the grief, so her current filling rate is a product of the situation and not the amount of grief in the gem.
 
Key question. Mami asks "why". Do we want to talk emotions: "because I was scared" "because I didn't want to lose you" or do we want to talk goals: "I'm trying to save everyone" "I was making the best decisions I can with the information I have".

What I feel like is the thesis statement of my preferred response:

"I don't have a real plan; I'm just winging it, trying to figure out how to save everyone. Help me figure it out, please."

Sabrina isn't telling her this just out of obligation or to correct a wrong. We want Mami's input. We want her to take this information and suggest what should be done. This isn't a manipulation; this is a call for help.
 
Vote Tally : Puella Magi Adfligo Systema | Page 3847 | Sufficient Velocity
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[x] Apologize profusely. Ask her, beg her to hear you out.
-[x] "I... I was scared to tell you. At first, I... I went with you because I knew you were a good person who needed a friend... which was why when you offered to let me live with you, I accepted. I knew you were a wonderful person who deserved better. Who deserves better. At the start, I just wanted to help. Fix things and save people. You know me.
-[x] "It... None of that was a lie, Mami. I... Learning from you. Helping save people with you. Being with you. That mattered to me. It matters to me."
-[x] "At first, I was still figuring things out and... didn't know how to tell you. I was scared and didn't know how to say it. It was just... too much, and I was worried about Kyubey finding out. Then there were days when there was just no time, and you were so hurt after you found out Kyubey had been lying to you that I couldn't stomach the idea of potentially making things worse. Of hurting you like that again. And it was easy to let it just stay untold, because in the end, when Kyubey was out of the way and I could have made time to tell you, the real reason why I allowed myself to put it off was because I was scared. Of hurting you, like I just did again. Of confessing that I hadn't told you all this time. I'm so sorry, Mami..."
-[x] "I know I should have said something sooner but... I just didn't know how to tell you. It was tearing me up inside..."
[x] Apologize again. Plead for your case.
-[x] "I'm sorry, Mami. I am so, so sorry, more than I can say, for not telling you sooner. You... You matter to me. More... P-probably more than anyone else does. I want... I want you to be happy. I swear. That's the truth. The whole truth. I want you to be happy because you're Mami and you deserve to be."
[x] Ask her, beg her for forgiveness, for the chance to help, to set things right, for that is all you ask, all that you want. To see her happy. To enjoy life with her. For she is dear to your heart. Someone you deeply care for.
[x] If at any point, Mami visibly deteriorates or reacts...
-[x] "Mami? Please, talk to me? I... I don't want to see you hurt like this. Please... I know I don't deserve it, but please? I'm not like...him. I promise. Seeing you like this... hurts me so much..."
[x] Ask permission to cleanse at any point if her gem starts looking bad again. Beg if you have to. You're wiling to humble yourself for her sake.
-[x] If her gem gets really bad, just cleanse, no matter what.
[x] Keep your own gem clean. Continuous cleansing.
[x] With Mami's permission, continue the vote in abeyance.
No. of Votes: 7
UbeOne
DB_Explorer
Dreitus
Higure
MrLZRS
Sailor Midgard
Sereg

[X] Continue removing grief from both of your soul gems.
[X] You didn't tell her what you knew right away because at first you didn't know what to do. Then you were scared it might hurt her, or that she might want nothing to do with you any more. You're telling her now, because you can't stand the idea of keeping things from your friends. You don't know how you came to know any of it, but the one thing that you've always been certain of is that you had to do whatever you could to help the people you knew things about.
[X] You know none of that excuses what you did. Whatever your intentions were, you deceived her and hurt her and...
[X] Apologize profusely and tearfully. You didn't want to hurt her, you never wanted to hurt her.
No. of Votes: 5
Godwinson
Aranfan
Gadjo
TheFanficAddict
Yarudazuigu

[X] Keep an eye on your Soul Gems. If you need to cleanse, warn Mami first. Plead if she won't let you cleanse her.
[X] "Why do I always hurt you? I don't know, I hate it. It hurts. I just wanted to help, I thought I was helping everyone I could- until I didn't, I don't. I don't help everyone I can because I'd rather spend my time with you."
[X] You just didn't know what to do. If you had tell her this sooner... would she had pushed you away?
-[X] Will she push you away now? This is what scares you. You don't want to leave. You want to stay here, with Mami, and keep living together and being friends... more than friends. She's more than a friend to you, and you can't stand being compared to that evil rat.
[X] You're sorry. Apologize. You can't apologize enough.
No. of Votes: 3
Onmur
Always Late
Redshirt Army

[X] Keep talking with Mami, maintain as steady a tone as we can. But if we are about to start crying, then don't try to hold it back too much, just enough so we can keep talking.
[X] Discreetly cleanse our own Gem as much as feasible.
[X] Apologize to her, and plead Mami that she listen to what we have to say for ourselves.
-[X] Ask that she at least allows you to keep cleansing her Gem while you're at it. Even if it might seem otherwise, we only wish to help her, because we will never cease caring about her as our precious friend and companion
--[X] If she gets to alarming levels but hasn't given permission, warn her about her Gem insistently. But if the worst comes to pass and she refuses, then bite the bullet and cleanse her anyways.
[X] Apologize to Mami again. Even if we never wanted or intended it, she still got hurt by our thoughtlessness and stupidity.
-[X] Tell her that we're not Kyubey, we are not like him and never have been. We are not using Mami, we just wish to be there with her.
-[X] Explain that the knowledge we had was superficial at best, as if we were shown pictures and told some facts by some outsider. But we had enough in our head, and could recognize her as Mami, the smart and kind veteran Magical Girl and a defender of Justice...
--[X] ...But also as someone who was lonely, had been through much, and needed a friend for herself. So our thoughts upon seeing her were that we could- we needed to help her as much as we could. As such, when Mami asked us to move in with her, we were happy to accept.
-[X] Yet it didn't take long for it to become something more. We genuinely wanted to help her and be there for her... and we wanted to be there with her. It wasn't only about helping anymore, but because the more we got to actually know her, the more we cared about her as a true friend and companion. We couldn't bear the thought of leaving her, it was unthinkable for us.
--[X] So then we became afraid of telling her. We thought that she would start hating us if we told about this, and tell us to leave. At first, we tried excusing it to ourselves by not wanting Kyubey to know. But then when he was gone, it became harder and harder to justify. We didn't want her to be hurt by it, but not telling would be deceiving both her and ourselves. So she deserved to know, even if she would start to hate us.
[X] Apologize again, for being a stupid idiot who can't even tell this without ending up hurting her.
No. of Votes: 1
DrZiztah

[x]Continue pleading your case, up to and including with the vote held in abeyance.
-[x]Beg on hands and knees, if it comes to that.
--[x]Ask whether Mami would really have behaved so differently if she'd been in the situation of having a secret that could destroy every positive relationship she has.
No. of Votes: 1
EvaUnit01

[X] She seems to be under the misunderstanding that we're in cahoots with the bunnycat. Correct her.
[X] Tell her we aren't even sure of why in the actual fuck do we even know all those things, but that we decided, against all common sense, to do all the philanthropic stuff we've been doing and to fight against the incubators to protect Madoka, Sayaka and HER.
-[X] Emphasize that our desire to protect HER specifically has grown only stronger as we got to know her. Remember all the shenanigans, all the times we spent.
[X] If, IF, she kicks us out, we'll accept it. If she does not want us to be with her anymore. We'll leave. But mention that we will not abandon her. Even if we are apart.
-[X] Stay on the lookout for QB. The last thing we want is for him to Witchbomb Mami.
--[X] Yes, even with your eavesdropping protection.
No. of Votes: 1
The Oldman

[X] "Mami, this is important and scary but you need to hear me out. I'm coming clean and you can hate me or forgive me, but you owe it to me to let me finish before passing judgement."
No. of Votes: 1
Nolrai

[X] Without pausing for apologies, push straight on the story. "I don't know who I am, and the only agenda I have is what I decided to do after I woke up with these memories. I knew that Kyubey was evil, tricking girls... tricking you. Like I said before, I knew how the magical girl system really works. Oh, and I knew I was bleeding to death. Still no clue how I got the hole in me or where I was before that.
[X] "So with a few seconds to think before I passed out from blood loss, I made a wish to control Grief. It was the smartest wish I could think of to save my own life, and not be under Kyubey's thumb... paw... whatever. Maybe get other people free as well.
[X] "You offered to take me home, and you were so nice, so I decided to go with you. I'm glad I did. I think I love you. No... I know I love you.
[X] Monitor Mami's grief levels. If it's looking dangerous, tell her, "Your soul gem... if you don't trust me to cleanse it that's fine, but please use a grief seed."
-[X] Don't let her die of grief overload no matter what.
[X] Continue, if she lets us. "I have some theories about who and what I really am and why I showed up with these memories. Just theories; I don't know anything for sure. Part of it involves Homura and what's going on with her. I promised her that I wouldn't spread her secrets, but I'll tell part of it... a lot of it. She's in a time loop. She keeps coming back, trying to stop Walpurgis and save Madoka. I think maybe I was created by one of those loops. Again, just a theory."
[X] "I love you. I want you to know me, to help me. I need your help. I don't have a real plan; I'm just winging it, trying to figure out how to save everyone. Help me figure it out, please."
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

[X] "Because I was scared. Scared of losing you. I'm sorry. I should have told you a long time ago. I know that. At first, I didn't say anything because I didn't think anyone would believe me. How could anyone believe it? It seems so impossible. And Kyubey was always here… listening… spying on us. If he finds out what I know, we're all dead. If I'd told you when we first met what a monster he was, would you have believed me? And when I finally got up the courage to tell you that he was tricking you, to tell you the truth about Soul Gems, you were so hurt by it… I hated myself for putting you through that. I was afraid that if I tried to tell you the rest, I would hurt you again."
-[X] "But that's all just excuses. The real reason is because I'm a coward. I was afraid of… well, of this. (Well, okay, not the ribbon thing; that was a surprise.) I was afraid of you hating me for keeping this from you. I was afraid of losing you. But I couldn't stay quiet any longer. It wasn't right. It wasn't fair to you. I don't want to keep secrets from you anymore. You're my best friend. You're practically my family. I want to be honest with you. Even if… even if it costs me your friendship. You deserve the truth."
--[X] "I don't know how I know these things. I'm not a clairvoyant. I didn't spy on you. I just woke up knowing them. I didn't recognize my own face in the mirror, but I knew who all of you were the moment I saw you. I knew that Homura had a good heart under that gruff exterior, and I knew that Kyubey was really a monster… and I knew that you were a hero. And when I actually got to know you, I discovered that the real you was even more amazing than I'd realized. If you can still stand the sight of me after all this... then I'd like nothing more than to stay by your side."
[X] "I'll abide by whatever decision you make. I won't keep things from you anymore. Ask me anything. I'll tell you any secret that's mine to tell."
[X] If at time during the conversation, we sense that Mami's Soul Gem has reached half full again, remind her that she needs to cleanse it.
-[X] If Mami doesn't, tell her that we'll abide by any decision she makes… but we will not allow her to commit suicide by letting her Soul Gem fill up. Beg her to cleanse her Soul Gem, if need be.
--[X] If she doesn't cleanse it herself and it reaches dangerous levels, then we will use our powers to cleanse it for her, after warning her that we intend to. If by some miracle we're not still tied up at that point, we will not reach for it while cleansing it or make any other sudden movements that could startle her.
No. of Votes: 1
The Narrator

Total No. of Voters: 21
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Briefvoice said:
Key question. Mami asks "why". Do we want to talk emotions: "because I was scared" "because I didn't want to lose you" or do we want to talk goals: "I'm trying to save everyone" "I was making the best decisions I can with the information I have".
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The issue that we're tackling here is an emotional one: Mami feels personally betrayed by our keeping secrets from her, rather than believing that we're working toward goals contrary to hers. I feel like we need to answer the emotional issues. Saying "it's for the greater good" won't be much comfort to her, especially since that's the excuse that Kyubey would always use.



Hmm.... do you guys think this would be an improvement to the first line?

"Because I was scared. Scared of losing you. I'm sorry. I should have told you a long time ago. I know that. I didn't know how to say it."
 
[x] Why didn't I tell you? Because I was scared. Of everything.
-[x] Scared at first of Kyubey. He's even more of a monster than you know.
-[x] Then scared for you, because I didn't want to hurt you more than I already had, and because Kyubey is trying to get to me by going after everybody I care about. Most of all you.
-[x] Now I'm scared of losing you, because I knew that I'd left it too long and I'm so sorry and it hurt so much but I was too afraid to tell you because I didn't want to hurt you more and I didn't know how to say it right...

[x] Why you?
-[x] At first, because I'd just woken up and had to make a snap decision between you and Homura. I decided to protect you from Kyubey.
-[x] Now I just want to stay with you. Please.
-[x] mumi plz

[x] Why anything?
-[x] I simply don't know. I woke up, 95% dead, with some knowledge about the world and a desire to help people. And that's it. I'm winging it. Flying in the dark, and the night is fully of terrors.

[x] I'm so sorry. :'(
 
The Narrator said:
Hmm.... do you guys think this would be an improvement to the first line?

"Because I was scared. Scared of losing you. I'm sorry. I should have told you a long time ago. I know that. I didn't know how to say it."
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Not honest enough.

"Because I was scared. Scared of hurting you, and you know for us there's no difference between physical and emotional. I have had nightmares of your soul gem going dark and shattering. I practiced over and over how to say this without makign you despair, and I would have told you long ago if only I could have found the right words."
 
I haven't actually voted yet...

[X] Godwinson

I'm not totally sold that this is the right choice, but I can't just let this vote slide by without saying something. Do we have a deadline for votes? I may try my hand a Frankenstein Vote with Custom Threading when I wake up, but I'm not in the best frame of mind for that just now.
 
[Q] I'm trying to not be a deceiving little witch and then you're all like this mumi.
-[Q] mumi why

Would it be worth to point out how we're trying to not lie to Mami? And she's doing pretty much exactly what we feared?

She almost left us tied up and left; she just couldn't bear herself to do it.
 
Vebyast said:
...because Kyubey is trying to get to me by going after everybody I care about.
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Briefvoice said:
He's done nothing of the sort. Let's not tell lies.
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Briefvoice has a point there. Yes, Kyubey wouldn't hesitate to arrange our death given the opportunity and is trying to bring about the extinction of the human race, but so far all he's done is talked shit about us behind our back.


Briefvoice said:
"Because I was scared. Scared of hurting you, and you know for us there's no difference between physical and emotional. I have had nightmares of your soul gem going dark and shattering. I practiced over and over how to say this without makign you despair, and I would have told you long ago if only I could have found the right words."
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I dunno. Feels like it's kind of wordy. And is the part about having nightmares about her gem going dark actually true?


RagnorakTres said:
I'm not totally sold that this is the right choice, but I can't just let this vote slide by without saying something. Do we have a deadline for votes? I may try my hand a Frankenstein Vote with Custom Threading when I wake up, but I'm not in the best frame of mind for that just now.
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There's no set deadline, but I have to figure it will be at least a day before the next update. No need to rush to make a choice right this moment.
 
The Narrator said:
and is trying to bring about the extinction of the human race
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This is not even remotely one of Kyubey's goals. The only reason it would ever take this course of action would be if it determined that it would produce more energy for negating entropy than the human species on Earth could ever produce over an indefinite period of time.
 
Einsig said:
This is not even remotely one of Kyubey's goals. The only reason it would ever take this course of action would be if it determined that it would produce more energy for negating entropy than the human species on Earth could ever produce over an indefinite period of time.
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Technically speaking, we don't know what final state he favours, but humanity existing to witness it is not a coveted part of it, given how quick the incubator is to take the "earth dies" option.

Onmur said:
She almost left us tied up and left; she just couldn't bear herself to do it.
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I still find that incredibly sloppy on our part. We should be more perceptive, dying is not an option here, not yet at least.
 
bird_poison said:
I still find that incredibly sloppy on our part. We should be more perceptive, dying is not an option here, not yet at least.
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She's not going to kill us- the revelation isn't anything like the witchbomb, and we could break out at any time. I just don't think we should.

Also, a love confession will only look like an attempt to mollify her right now, even if it is true. Not the time.
 
[x]Godwinson

I've been convinced that starting with an apology is a bad idea.
 
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