...is that what we are right now?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
[jk] Mami-chan, I'm going to change! It'll all be different from now on, you'll see. I'll be honest with you and tell you things and you can believe in me. It's going to be the good times, all over again. Baby, you have to believe me. Now come on, let me give you a little sugar and we can put all this behind us.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
No, no, no. Of course not!
Not until we have to tell her about how we've been trying to get Kyouko to teach her protégé behind her back, anyway....
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Well, Mami's psyche simply has been thoroughly abused, so while we might not have been the one to actually hurt her, she is hurt, and it's in trying to not hurt her further that we... drag these topics on and on and can't just come out and say what needs to be said, but need to be super subtle and nice and suportive and all those annoying things... 
But,
-[Q] Where did you go wrong?
But,
[Q] That whole thing I had with Sayaka was a joke, you know that, right? You know she's not my real waifu. Come on, you're the only girl in my life, all eleven days of it- wait, come back! Where are you- come o- Mami don't - please- Damn it! *Kicks table*
-[Q] Where did you go wrong?
Julian Bradshaw
MSY Historian
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I think you've misunderstood the hidden link. Sayaka went with Madoka, Hitomi, and Homura to do her homework, so she can't possibly forget. The link is simply the original context of the homework - the first time it's talked about.
No, what we're telling her really is incomplete. DrZiztah's line starts with:
"Mami, so, I need to tell you about the stuff I said I was going to tell you about."
And we told Mami we would eventually tell her not just about the metabomb, but about our other secrets too, most notably the witchbomb. We said there were super terrible things about the magical girl system we hadn't told her yet, as well as various tragic secrets (i.e. the loops, Homucifer) that weren't ours to tell.
"Stuff Sabrina is going to tell me" is a huge, overwhelming ball of misery in Mami's mind that she couldn't bear to face last time we discussed the subject. It's important that we say clearly we're now just dealing with the parts about Sabrina herself.
@DrZiztah You moved a line about getting to know Mami earlier in your vote and now it doesn't quite make sense:
"Then when we got to know her, the real Mami, we found we couldn't bring ourselves to talk about it."
"The real Mami" is out of place since we haven't mentioned knowing about her beforehand yet. Should be fine if you just delete it from the line.
You have a point, but at the same time, this is a pretty sensitive topic. It's not so much about the word order or precise phrases used as much as making sure we don't forget to say something important or, in generalizing, say something that mostly isn't true. Unfortunately, we can't tell Mami all of our metaknowledge (witchbomb, secrets, Madowish, etc.) so care has to be taken. We wouldn't be so careful if we hadn't waltzed into conversations foolishly and watched them blow up in our faces before.
(edit - Whoops, thanks Torgamous.)
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
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Hmm. Would we? In your proposed scenario we have a good track record for approaching conversations carefully.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
You know what, I'm gonna try my hand at making a vote.
[x] Cook delicious food with Mami
[x] Over diner drop the metabomb
-[x] Open with how you hope she doesn't kick you out over it.
-[x] Move on to how while you are amnesiac, you have knowledge like the languages.
-[x] Among that knowledge is how, basically, you've seen this TV show before. You knew roughly about Homura, Madoka, Sayaka, Kyuubey, Mami, the Magical Girl System, and Kyoko as soon as you woke up in that alley.
-[x] A bunch of the stuff we know from that TV show is stuff that is Homura's to tell, not yours. Other stuff is traumatizing to know.
[x] Cook delicious food with Mami
[x] Over diner drop the metabomb
-[x] Open with how you hope she doesn't kick you out over it.
-[x] Move on to how while you are amnesiac, you have knowledge like the languages.
-[x] Among that knowledge is how, basically, you've seen this TV show before. You knew roughly about Homura, Madoka, Sayaka, Kyuubey, Mami, the Magical Girl System, and Kyoko as soon as you woke up in that alley.
-[x] A bunch of the stuff we know from that TV show is stuff that is Homura's to tell, not yours. Other stuff is traumatizing to know.
- Location
- Illinois
Yeah, gonna agree that that line is poorly written @DrZiztah.
*coughs*
See section 2 subsections 1, 2, and 3.
We are telling her about that stuff. We're telling her it exists, and we're telling her stuff about it, we're not dropping the actual witchbomb unless she asks us to, we're going to tell her that there's stuff we can't tell her without Homura's consent... It absolutely is the entire metabomb, just some of it is styled as "this is a thing" instead of "this thing is and it is this."
... Huh, I styled the witchbomb stuff like informed consent in the medical industry, now that I think about it, which makes sense because emotional state = health in meguca.
I have to correct you. We can. We are capable of writing a plan that does so, and voting for it. We are choosing not to, for reasons that seem good to many of the thread participants. But let's be clear about the difference between "can't" and "won't".
- Location
- South Africa
Okay.
Looking good so far
Context.
Sabrina: "Oh, by the way! Mami! I hope you don't kick me out over it!"
Mami: "Over what?"
Sabrina: "The metabomb."
Mami: "The what?"
Mami knows this already. Either add something she doesn't now or explain why it's important.
This'll cause confusion at best. First she'll think you're talking about a show in the PMAS verse. Then she won't know what the show taught you.
Again, likely to lead to confusion or paranoia.
Yet more confusion.
Julian Bradshaw
MSY Historian
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I do understand that, but we're not planning to tell her the actual content of Homura's secrets or the witchbomb, which is a distinction I would personally make up front. However, it's not a huge deal.
@Aranfan I'd suggest waiting until after dinner to drop the metabomb, and I wouldn't say Sabrina's an amnesiac. I also agree with Sereg's points that elements are likely to be confusing.
- Location
- Illinois
Metabomb has no clear definition, guarantee either unintended consequences or firn gets a headache.
We seem to be agreed on waiting until after dinner for metabomb.
Mentioning Kyoko at this juncture is dumb, lets clear the primary objective first.
6th x not detailed enough about traumatic info, could result in bad.
As much as this is an accurate summary I think there's a lot to be said for fine-tuning the detail of the fuckdamn metabomb vote :/
Me tired QQ
No, we're not planning to tell her or not to tell her, we're planning to ask if she wants to be told (witchbomb). If you want to add the homura distinction, ok sure ill go do that you're not wrong... But i'd rather do it after this post, as the opener of the everything else. Just imo.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
We're not telling her Homura's secrets because they aren't ours to tell. We haven't violated Mami's privacy to the others, and we wouldn't violate the privacy of others to Mami. I think Mami will understand that if we tell her as much. We're telling her our secrets right now, no one else's.
As for the witchbomb, I would be okay with us telling her that, but not right at this moment. It's a tangent that would take us off the current topic of the metabomb and confuse the issue. We need to let her process one before we hit her with the other. There's a reason that people tend to refer to these facts as bombs: learning the lichbomb was quite traumatizing to Mami, and each of these additional facts individually will probably be quite difficult for her to learn as well. We know of at least three timelines where the witchbomb drove Mami to suicide. Dealing with that will probably be a whole conversation unto itself; whether that conversation will follow immediately after this one or not will depend on whether or not she feels up to it.
You know, in the interest of Devil's Advocate I could offer a moral counter-argument to "not ours to tell". Homura did not entrust Sabrina with her secrets and no promises were ever made about keeping them. Sabrina learned them through a process entirely outside of her control. It's the equivalent of having a misdirected email sent your way in which you learn about someone else's morally questionable activity*. The information is Sabrina's to do with as she pleases.
Sabrina should keep Homura's secrets just as long as she thinks it's a good idea to do so, for the sake of Homura's mental health and because this will cause events to have a more satisfying conclusion. If she ever thinks otherwise, if she thinks that Homura's actions will lead to more harm than good or lead to a bad outcome, Sabrina should not hesitate a second in revealing Homura's secrets if that is the best way to put a stop to it.
The reason that we're not revealing Homura's secrets is that we don't trust Mami to agree with us about supporting Homura's end objectives and because it would necessarily involve telling Mami about witches, which could harm her. It's not because there's some sacred moral obligation not to blab. There's no pinkie promise. We were not granted the information on the condition that we use it in a way that Homura approves.
*And I think that Homura's actions are indeed morally questionally at the least.
EDIT: I mean, imagine a universe where Homura had given us a Homura-face and said, "Tell who you want." Would we now be including telling Homura's whole deal to Mami, or would there be other reasons not to tell her?
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The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
While Homura didn't originally choose to share her past with us, since telling her that we knew about it we have been able to get her to rely on us and to share additional information with us. So she has given us her trust, which we've always been reluctant in the past to violate. Obviously, there may a time when personal loyalties are outweighed by the greater good, and it may someday be that we cannot, in good conscience, continue to keep Homura's secrets, but that time has not yet come. (Personally, I disagree on Homura on one important matter, as I feel that keeping Madoka ignorant of the apocalyptic true consequences of her contract only serves Kyubey's purposes, but we're not talking to Madoka at the moment.)
Additionally, something that I decided not to bring up before, since it wasn't in direct regard to Mami's feelings, is that some of Homura's secrets are of strategic value to our enemy. As such, it's sort of like information that has been classified for reasons of national security. It can't be shared without taking substantial precautions to ensure that it doesn't spread any further. Having personal trust in someone and blabbing classified information to them are two different things.
EDIT:
I don't really see that being an issue, since I can't imagine that Mami would be in support of the world being destroyed. Back when she was oblivious to Kyubey's true nature, she might not have been willing to believe that he had such intentions, but now that she knows of his deceptive nature, she and Homura have come to agree that Madoka becoming a magical girl would be a bad thing. She just doesn't realize that it's more than just Madoka's life that would be endangered by it.
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- Location
- Illinois
You can't be a devil's advocate when arguing against homura. It doesn't work that way.
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Julian Bradshaw
MSY Historian
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- Location
- Illinois
if that happens whatever the fuck did it is going to get a homu.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
This categorically wrong.
We aren't telling Homu's secrets because Homu is Love.
Julian Bradshaw
MSY Historian
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
It's also not Mami's fucking business what Homura's been up to in past timelines, what she wished for, and what she's after. None of that really has any bearing on Mami's entire life except "Walpurgis is coming" and "Madoka contracting will end the entire world."
And we're withholding the latter because Kyubey is a fuck and Madoka is a martyr and it risks the chance of Potentialbombing, and thus witching out, Homura.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Because Homura is our friend and has clearly indicated that she doesn't want us to talk about her secrets?
Seriously, why is SV so filled with assholes?
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
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Because I'm a quest guy and SV has a much stronger quest community.
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You spend too much time in the quest subforum.
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