I know, I know!
Sabrina needs to give hugs to all those hurt brains! It's magic, so we don't have to worry about it. Kyubei and his doods are screwed anyway. Even if Homu-mama doesn't enslave the shit out of them, universe can't be saved from Entropy without changing the rules. Changing the rules ... might not be advisable.
 
this is actually false. Trying things with griefhax takes time.

It only takes time when we succeed (whereupon it's not a waste of time as we achieved what we wanted to achieve). If we fail once or 700 quintilion times in a row, it still uses up zero seconds, so we still haven't wasted any time at all.

You assert this, but I find it suspect.

I've repeatedly requested an explanation of how to win this quest with nothing more than social and our current powers and no one has ever managed to give one.

It is not literally impossible unless your plan is to fight the incubators directly, and since I see them as mostly plot device I feel that's a futile waste of energy.

Madoka wished to fix everything. As such, if even a single thing, in the entire Universe remains unfixed, we have failed as completely as it is possible to have failed. Madokami proves that action at that level is possible and the reason we aren't allowing her to wish is because we believe we can do better. If we don't believe that we can do better than Madokami, why are we stopping her from wishing? Also, Madoka, with the same potential used to create Madokami, wished to "fix everything". As such, this quest needs to end with Madokami levels of "everything fixed" and the required potential was used to ensure this. As such, your assumption of what results in a victory in this quest is literally impossible as stated by in-Universe quotes.

Second, we waste hours every time we try that kind of shit. It's not zero cost. And before you say timestop, remember that annoying Homura is a cost since if we do it too much she'll probably stop letting us use it for shits and giggles.


Wrong. Again, it costs zero seconds when we fail, so it is zero cost. The maximum time success has cost is half an hour, which is practically nothing for the benefit we receive.


Third, the problems in question.

1. It would stop Oriko from needing us to be in her presence constantly.
It's implied there is a strong psychosomatic component to her ills. Improving her mental health could very well solve that problem.

We don't know that. You know what would help us find out? Science.

2. It would give Madoka a way to feel useful
That's a job for a therapist or a Homu. It's not like Homura would let us put a grief ring on Madoka anyway- she would feel compelled to use to save people, and that would put her at risk, which in homu terms only translates to incoherent rage.

It being a job for others doesn't stop it from being our concern. And neither Homu nor a therapist can change the fact that Madoka's right. She should be helping.

3. It would compensate Sayaka for being unable to copy our powers
It's not really a huge deal that Sayaka can't copy our powers. If anything her inability to copy ours is further evidence that our powers can't be copied.

Right now, her powers are unreliable and likely to get her killed.


4. It would give Sayaka a reliable source of power for when she can't copy and will synergise well with her copying.
She can call us and we can timestop airdrop someone to copy. (or just ourselves)

And every time something like that's happened, it's been a huge problem.


5. It would help solve our range problem
Feeds back into "I think we've been implicitly told by the GM that copying this power won't work" which ties back into my older argument "You cannot beat your grief range. It is your power limiter."

And social solves this how?

6. It would prevent the good we've done so far from being erased the instant we die
It's a quest- you don't plan for after you die except to stay in character, since the game ends if we lose.

I plan for after we die. It's also highly relevant as if we become to annoying to the Incubators, we need them to see that killing us won't end their problems.

7. They provide an improved replacement for the stopgap of clear seeds
It's a stopgap that works just fine, for now.

"for now" being the relevant words.

But beyond all that, let's go back to the power limiter topic. See, people have spent a huge portion of this quest puzzling over how to beat our range. But every single attempt has fizzled as if hitting a wall. A wall made of plot. See, at the beginning of the quest, it was floated to possibly wish for reality warping. Later on, I do believe @Firnagzen noted that if we'd made such a wish, our range would have been laughably short- something like 2 meters or the like.

Consider if we had that. How quickly would we find ways to alter stuff so we could alter stuff outside that bubble? Well. He'd just do what he's already doing now. Slam the door in front of us every single time we try, until we get the point that it is immutable. As such, I believe any such attempt to break our range is a waste of our time.

There's plenty we haven't tried and Firn has hinted before that some of our problems are ones he doesn't want us to give up on but puzzle out.

Social includes getting meguca to cooperate with us and each other, so any problem that requires non-Sabrina meguca to solve would need to be solved with social. Extending Sabrina's power, if it's possible at all, will probably require a bunch of magic specialties that Sabrina doesn't have. You shouldn't just assume that something is either independently achievable by Sabrina working alone in a warehouse or it's impossible.


Working with other powers is part of Science. Acquiring other powers we specifically need through social is either blatant luck, author fiat, or sciencing to acquire them more easily.
 
It only takes time when we succeed (whereupon it's not a waste of time as we achieved what we wanted to achieve). If we fail once or 700 quintilion times in a row, it still uses up zero seconds, so we still haven't wasted any time at all.



I've repeatedly requested an explanation of how to win this quest with nothing more than social and our current powers and no one has ever managed to give one.



Madoka wished to fix everything. As such, if even a single thing, in the entire Universe remains unfixed, we have failed as completely as it is possible to have failed. Madokami proves that action at that level is possible and the reason we aren't allowing her to wish is because we believe we can do better. If we don't believe that we can do better than Madokami, why are we stopping her from wishing? Also, Madoka, with the same potential used to create Madokami, wished to "fix everything". As such, this quest needs to end with Madokami levels of "everything fixed" and the required potential was used to ensure this. As such, your assumption of what results in a victory in this quest is literally impossible as stated by in-Universe quotes.




Wrong. Again, it costs zero seconds when we fail, so it is zero cost. The maximum time success has cost is half an hour, which is practically nothing for the benefit we receive.




We don't know that. You know what would help us find out? Science.



It being a job for others doesn't stop it from being our concern. And neither Homu nor a therapist can change the fact that Madoka's right. She should be helping.



Right now, her powers are unreliable and likely to get her killed.




And every time something like that's happened, it's been a huge problem.




And social solves this how?



I plan for after we die. It's also highly relevant as if we become to annoying to the Incubators, we need them to see that killing us won't end their problems.



"for now" being the relevant words.



There's plenty we haven't tried and Firn has hinted before that some of our problems are ones he doesn't want us to give up on but puzzle out.




Working with other powers is part of Science. Acquiring other powers we specifically need through social is either blatant luck, author fiat, or sciencing to acquire them more easily.
Mind yourself, Sereg.
 
Line by line breakdowns aren't really necessary to make a point. I do agree with the main thrusts of Sereg's argument, though:

A). If we can't create a final outcome better than the Wraith Arc, then morally, we should be encouraging Madoka to contract.

B). We thus have an obligation to attempt to create a universal outcome better than the wraith arc.

C). And insofar as this is a winnable game, our abilities thus need to have a reach capable of achieving that result, with the assistance of others taken into account.

Social is important insofar as magical girl abilities are capable of being massive force multipliers - Homura's timestop being a premier example. But given our stupid, stupid potential, I think it's safe to say that our innate abilities are a key part of the puzzle, and not even trying to understand them is, in my opinion, a massive mistake.
 
Changing the subject again:

What's our plan for the soulguca?

There isn't a coherent one. That said, I would very much like to research her to see if she's a viable resource for our various soul trubs, and then, if she is, expedite her arrival.

I don't think waiting for Oriko's soul to finish imploding before acting is a good idea.
 
Anomalous Materials pt. 46
You swoop down on Sayaka as the Barrier dissolves. Mami lands gracefully beside you a moment later.

The familiar ping of a Grief Seed forming is a welcome sound to your ears - it's something you can give Sayaka, something that's provably hers. The noise startles Sayaka, though, and she flinches, leaping back with her sword at the ready.

She lowers her sword, grinning sheepishly at you and Mami as she notices the Grief Seed. Beneath her feet, the corpse of the Witch fades, dissolving into Grief that swirls into the bottomless whirlpool that is the forming Seed.

That's the second spider Witch you've fought, isn't it? You feel vaguely guilty, memories of elsewhere and elsewhen reminding you of another Witch named Rochelle, a friendly, sapient one. That definitely wasn't Rochelle, though. Rochelle isn't a chitinous black horror.

You shake those thoughts away as the Barrier fades back into the real world. You find yourself standing atop what looks like an office building, surrounded by humming air conditioner compressors.

"Congratulations, Sayaka!" you say, offering her a high five. Sayaka returns the high five, proud grin stretching her face.

"That was a rush!" she declares, beaming.

"You too, Mami," you say, beaming at her, and switch to telepathy to add, "I saw you protecting Sayaka. You're the best."

Faint pink tinges Mami's cheeks. "Ah, well, it was just another hunt," she says, smiling back.

"Anyway, let's get going!" Sayaka says, bouncing happily on her toes. "I wanna go to the hospital and see Kyousuke!"

"Aren't you forgetting something?" you ask, taking a few steps over to the Grief Seed and scooping it up.

"Oh, right!" Sayaka says. "How are we going to split this?"

"Well," you say, catching Mami's eye and giving her a quick smile before turning back to Sayaka. "We have plenty, and... hey. This is your first hunt and kill, so!" You present the Seed to her. "Here, Sayaka. You've earned it."

"Ooooh," Sayaka says, holding both hands out with palms cupped together. You drop it into her palms, and she closes her hand tightly over it, eyes all but shining. "My first Grief Seed!"

"Go ahead and use it?" you suggest, simultaneously reaching out to Mami. "We'll need to go over her performance later, but let her have her moment?"

"Mm," Mami agrees, watching at Sayaka touches the Grief Seed to her Soul Gem. "She was far too reckless."

"Whoa," Sayaka says, wide-eyed as she watches the Grief flow away from her Soul Gem, leaving it gleaming clean. "That's really cool."

"What, and my powers aren't?" you ask. A wave of Grief follows a wave of your hand, pulling the Grief out of your own and Mami's Soul Gems. Mami takes a quick look at her Soul Gem and beams at you.

"Yeah they are," Sayaka says. She doesn't even bother looking up, though, in favour of staring at the way the Grief Seed balances on its point. "But this is something I did."

You exchange a look with Mami, who shakes her head and moves over to stand beside you, arms held a little open. You huff in amusement and pull her into a sidelong hug. "I'll have to be gentle when criticising her," Mami muses.

"If anyone can make it work, it's you," you say, giving her an encouraging squeeze. "There's something I want to do first, though, if you don't mind?"

"Of course not," she says.

"Hey, Sayaka," you call, finally getting the bleunette's attention. "Can I ask for a favour from you?"

"Eh? Yeah, of course!" Sayaka says, brightening. "What do you need?"

"Well - OK, so, I've been doing some experiments on Grief Seeds, yeah?" you say. "Among other things, I've been trying to figure out what happens to Grief Seeds when I remove the Grief from them."

You tuck a stray lock of hair behind your hair, thinking. "Well, not exactly true," you correct yourself. "Or rather, I know what happens short term. They pretty much go completely clear and you can keep on cleansing with them, but I dunno what happens long term. Can I test it on your Grief Seed, and then you can keep on using it?"

"Um," she says, thinking for a moment. "Yeah." She nods slowly to herself. Focusing on you, she nods again, this time more decisively. "I'll do it. Though, uh, you're sure it's safe?"

"Mine's been fine so far," you say, patting down your pockets. "Uh, Mami, do you mind?" She frees herself from your side, giving you room to root around the other half of your pockets and produce Hildegarde's Seed. You hold it out to Sayaka. "See?"

"Huh," Sayaka says, holding up her own, balanced on the tip of her finger. Where the Grief Seed she'd just claimed is obsidian black, Hildegarde is glassy clear. Absently, you check on Hildegarde.

Quiet, sleeping still.

Hm.

"Yeah, alright," Sayaka says, offering her Grief Seed. "Go ahead."

You smile at her, tucking away Hildegard and taking hers. "Thanks, Sayaka."

She returns the smile. "So how does it work?"

"Well," you say. "Let me work my magic." You exhale, taking a moment to center yourself - and then you delve into the Grief Seed. Its name reverberates in your mind, the knowledge sinking in.

Decima.

You start hauling the Grief out, ropy streamers filling the air. Sayaka watches in fascination as the Grief condenses into solid particles. You can only imagine what it looks like from her point of view: yourself with bent head over the Grief Seed. Surrounding you would be billowing clouds that shade from complete invisibility into a rippling disc of fractal cloud. Tiny spheres accrete out of the disc, the blobs building in size before drifting off to the side.

It takes you a good ten minutes to finish. A orbiting solar system of Grief spheres swirl around you, bumping gently against each other. You eye the Grief for a moment - combined with all the Grief you already had, you now have a lot of it. You don't exactly have trouble controlling it all, but all told, you've got what amounts to a bus-sized group of eye-rending spheres following you around.

It might be perfectly controllable, but it's also getting somewhat more difficult to move about inconspicuously.

Eh, a problem for later.

You turn back to Sayaka, grinning. "Here you are!" you say, holding the clear Seed out to her. You take the opportunity to shape instruments from Grief, and the moment Sayaka reaches for Seed, you belt out an iconic tune familiar to virtually everyone who grew up in this generation.

Sayaka jumps, before groaning and slapping her hand over her face. "Really, Sabrina?" She swipes the Seed from your hand.

"What, didn't you play Zelda?" you ask, grinning cheekily at her.

"That's not the point!" Sayaka complains.

"Sure it is," you say. "Don't you think so, Mami?"

Mami giggles, patting your elbow. "Which one was your favourite?"

"Ahhh, hard to say." You consider it for a while. Majora's mask is probably something you should never mention around Homura, if nothing else. "Shall we walk and talk, by the way? We're going to the hospital, right?" You glance at Mami for confirmation.

Mami nods, flashing you a quick smile.

"Yeah!" Sayaka says, pumping her gloved fist. "Let's go!" She bounces off the edge of the roof, utterly fearless, though she doesn't land quite... smoothly. When the three of you leave the alley, you leave behind more broken concrete.

At least it's not your fault, any more, and this time, Sayaka remembers to detransform before bouncing out onto the street. You follow more sedately, Mami at your side. You nudge her gently, tilting your head at Sayaka.

Mami catches your meaning and straightens, taking a few steps forward to catch up with Sayaka. You flank Sayaka on the other side.

"Sayaka," Mami says. "We'll discuss your performance in the fight on the way to the hospital, if that's alright with you?"

"Huh?" Sayaka says, cocking her head. "Oh, right. Gotcha."

"First of all," Mami responds, her tone light, but firm. "Well done on your first Witch fight, Sayaka! I've known girls who didn't conduct themselves as well."

"Thanks!" Sayaka beams.

"That said," Mami continues. "You were far too reckless, Sayaka."

"I..." Sayaka's face falls a little. "Go on?"

Mami shakes her head. "What do you think you did wrong?"

The three of you are silent for a while as Sayaka walks on, clearly reviewing the fight in her head. "I... rushed in?"

"Do you remember when I told you that you should copy my powers?" Mami asks gently.

Sayaka's expression twitches, chagrin washing across her face. "Ah," she says. "I... got too caught up in my powers and forgot to do that?"

"You did," Mami agrees. There's no accusation in her voice, just simple statement of fact, and the warm smile on her face takes any sting out of it. "You rushed in too much, Sayaka."

"Can you think of other ways in which you were too impulsive?" you supply, earning a smile from Mami.

"Uhh," Sayaka says. "With the Witch? Maybe?" It's pretty clear she's guessing, from the confusion in her eyes. A bit of tunnel vision.

"That's one," Mami agrees. "You didn't check whether the Witch could attack you before attacking."

"But it... didn't..." Sayaka says, trailing off in realisation. Her shoulders slump. "Oh."

Mami taps Sayaka on the forehead with one finger. "Sayaka, you did amazingly today," she says firmly. "You handled yourself very well for a new magical girl, and you shouldn't be down on yourself. We're not telling you why you're bad. We're teaching you how to improve. Right, Sabrina?"

"Yup," you agree. "It's just something to learn. Overall... Your only real sin was that you were too eager, and you focused too much on a small area. Like with the Familiars, you were only able to attack the ones directly in front of you, but others were still getting away, and could attack you from other sides."

"The same was true with the way you faced the Witch," Mami adds. "You weren't afraid, and that was good. But you didn't check whether its limbs were free to attack you."

Sayaka nods slowly. "So I should have... baited it?"

Mami nods. "That's one tactic," she acknowledges. "Or for example, if you'd copied my power, you could have tied the Witch up."

"Ah," Sayaka says. "I see..."

The rest of your walk to the hospital is similarly filled with discussions of strategy and tactics against Witches, Mami recounting and explaining possible ways to fight them.

You listen, absorbing it with a careful ear and contributing where you can. You find yourself thinking about Homura along the way - she's presumably messing around with the the meteorological agency's computer right about now. You rather hope it's going well.

Homura... Homura deserves to have good things happen to her. She needs hugs and everything. She came from a Catholic school. She's said as much, elsewhere and elsewhen, and here in Japan, that's as good as a euphemism for being from an orphanage.

Not all orphanages in Japan are Catholic run, but many are.

You sigh to yourself, earning you a concerned look from Mami. You shake your head, smiling at her. You're fine.

You also have a question for Sayaka. "Hey, Sayaka?" you inject into a lull in the conversation. "Are you inviting Kwijibo for the picnic tomorrow?"

Sayaka blinks at you, jolted from whatever train of thought she had. "... Kwijibo?"

You blink right back at her. "... uh. Slip of the tongue?" you supply weakly. "I mean Kyousuke?"

"... er," Sayaka says. Her train of thought seems to have not only stalled, but also derailed rather spectacularly.

Mami starts giggling, falling a step back to cross behind Sayaka and grab your arm in a hug.

"... um. I guess?" Sayaka says. "How do you even get 'Kwijibo' from 'Kyousuke'?"

Mami giggles harder as the three of you step into the lift up to Kwijibo- uh, Kyousuke's room. Outside, out of sight, you guide your Grief to a hiding place on a hospital roof. At this point, you're all but certain it's noticeable. An entire planetary system's worth of objects made of Grief -including the Kuiper, Trojan, and Oort cloud bodies- is not exactly inconspicuous.

Ah, well. Kyuubey's problem.

Sayaka rockets out of the elevator door the moment it opens. Not literally, but she does make a beeline for Kwijibo's room. You and Mami follow more sedately, hearing voices echo from the room.

You find Sayaka dragging a chair over to Kwijibo's bed, the other one already occupied by Hitomi. Madoka's sitting by the wall, a happy smile on her face, and to your surprise, Homura's there too. Violet eyes meet yours for a moment, and she nods slightly.

[] Write-in

=====​

Yes, the winning vote literally said Kwijibo. The next vote will take you past the hospital vote to dinner, most likely, so vote accordingly!
 
Last edited:
There isn't a coherent one. That said, I would very much like to research her to see if she's a viable resource for our various soul trubs, and then, if she is, expedite her arrival.

I don't think waiting for Oriko's soul to finish imploding before acting is a good idea.
Agreed completely. I think we need to research how to contact her.
 
[X] Assist with Grief-cleansing while the others do however much healing of Kyousuke they plan to do today. While you do, engage Kyousuke in a little light conversation. Ask him why he doesn't get a laptop or at least a phone so he can browse the internet all day instead of having nothing to do. The internet is great! Speak passionately about how great the internet is and how he's missing out if he's not using the hospital's wi-fi. Realize, embarrassed, that you too should probably get a cell phone so that you can browse the internet and make calls instead of depending on telepathy all the time. Excuse yourself after that and go to the hospital roof. Call Kyuubey and get rid of some of this Grief while Mami is busy with the healing. When the hospital visit breaks up, go shopping with Mami for 1. Dinner; 2. Food for the picnic tomorrow; and 3. Maybe a cell phone? Once home, make dinner with Mami and then tell her that we have to talk (with serious-face on).
 
Last edited:
Excuse yourself after that and go to the hospital roof. Call Kyuubey and get rid of some of this Grief while Mami is busy with the healing. When the hospital visit breaks up, go shopping with Mami for 1. Dinner; 2. Food for the picnic tomorrow; and 3. Maybe a cell phone? Once home, make dinner with Mami and then tell her that we have to talk (with serious-face on).
Not sure this bit is going to get counted by a tally program, since there's no [x]
 
Even if the rest of my plan gets scrapped, I really, really want to take Kyousuke to task for not finding some way to keep the endless days filled other than listening to endless loops of music he thought he could never play again. Get addicted to Bejeweled or something, dude!
 
Back
Top