Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

[Ugolino]

There's no towel to throw in, this conversation is already a failure.

Click to shrink...

It only becomes a failure when the quest just gives up whenever things don't go perfectly instantly with a character who we fully expected to be prickly, who has been prickly in her every appearance ever making her being a bitch entirely predictable and expected rather than a major disaster, and who already showed a few interesting traits in these few words we've exchanged with her.

It's a failure only if we actively want and choose for it it to be one.

 

[Onmur]

Vote Tally : Puella Magi Adfligo Systema | Page 3672 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4

[X] Telepathy Kyouko that you'll be there soon.
[X] Apologize to Sasa for the trouble
-[X] Tell her to flag you down next time she see's you for that ice cream.
[X] Head over to Kyoko
[x] Plan to use the Mall to do routine shopping so Sasa can run into you again.
No. of Votes: 8
DB_Explorer
Balduran
Dragontrapper
LostDeviljho
Muramasa
Onmur
SoothingCoffee
UbeOne

[X] Okay, you don't want to talk; I get that.
-[X] Serious, no-nonsense tone. Drop the act. "But the way you've said it tells me that you match the profile I'm looking for, that you're more important than you realize. Don't be so willing to give that up, especially not to... well, you'll see."
[X] Grief up a pair of glasses (just the rims, no glass) directly onto your face.
[X] I'll probably be around here again sometime. You can try looking me up, but I don't have a legal identity to find. If you do find something anyway, well. Let me know.
[X] Talk to Kyoko when you're finished with Sasa.
-[X] Um, yeah, sorry about that.
-[X] Be right there.
[X] Head over to Kyoko.
-[X] If you can do it by flying away from a dead-end alley, putting on a Grief-bended Ring of Invisibility, or some other way to play up your mysterious-ness for Sasa, do that.
No. of Votes: 4
Torgamous
crowbar
Kaizuki
Redshirt Army

[x]...Hey, um, sorry.
[x]Just, if you ever change your mind or you want someone to talk to or yell at or something, consider it a standing offer, okay? I'll stop bothering you now but please take my number?
[x]Talk to Kyoko when you're finished with Sasa
-[x]Um, yeah, sorry about that.
-[x]Be right there.
[x] Head over to Kyoko
No. of Votes: 3
Guilop
MrLZRS
Ugolino

[X]"Nope. You're coming with me for ice cream...either that, or I'm going to get it and bring it back. So...do you want fresh ice cream in a nice place, or half melted ice cream here?"
[X]Follow through on that.
[X]Let her know we'll see her around.
[X]Go see Kyouko.
No. of Votes: 1
Higure

[X] Okay, you don't want to talk; I get that. But the way you've said it tells me that you match the profile I'm looking for, that you're more important than you realize. Don't be so willing to give that up, especially not to... well, you'll see.
[X] I'll probably be around here again tomorrow. You can try looking me up, but I'm pretty sure I don't have a legal identity to find. If you do find something, um, let me know? I've been trying to find out, well, anything about me for awhile now. No luck yet, but hey, maybe a fresh pair of eyes can help.
[X] Talk to Kyoko when you're finished with Sasa.
-[X] Um, yeah, sorry about that.
-[X] Be right there.
[X] Head over to Kyoko.
-[X] If you can do it by flying away from a dead-end alley, putting on a Grief-bended Ring of Invisibility, or some other way to play up your mysterious-ness for Sasa, do that.
No. of Votes: 1
TheEyes

[x] Plan to use the Mall to do routine shopping so Sasa can run into you again.
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈to use the Mall to do routine shopping so Sasa can run into you again.

Total No. of Voters: 17

Click to shrink...

 

[DB_Explorer]

...

[X] DB_Explorer

@DB_Explorer

Can you change 'tell her to flag you...' for 'I hope we meet again! We can have that ice cream then!'

... or something else less demanding?

Click to shrink...

Sure...

BE ADVISED... I WILL BE VOTING FOR SASA FOLLOW UPS

[X] Telepathy Kyouko that you'll be there soon.
[X] Apologize to Sasa for the trouble
-[X] I hope we meet again. We can have that ice cream then.
[X] Head over to Kyoko
[x] Plan to use the Mall to do routine shopping so Sasa can run into you again.

 

[Kaizuki]

What?

That's just throwing in the towel.

I mean, really?

That's just flipping the table and saying "I don't care what this does to quest events lol, bored of social". And it'd be awful for characterization too.

I mean, Redshirt, you're basically saying with that your vote is a vote to intentionally ruin things with Sasa in a way that'd potentially backfire on us. Because it'd be "interesting" and social is scary.

Click to shrink...

Not the point of his vote. It's one of his goals, but it isn't the point of the vote. It's also one of my goals: I don't want to sit here talking to a brick bitch wall for another IRL week. I want moar bests and less worsts, dammit! And if I can't have Mumi at least I can have Koko! But this Sasa drivel is gettin on mah nerves!

Anyway. The point of his vote is to get us a hook into Sasa for future use and then leave. He's doing it by performing a total 180 from the previous face we were displaying and leaving her wondering if we were just pretending to be an airheaded foreigner.

He's doing a really good job of it. Really, really good job. That's all we could want, I think.

 

[TheEyes]

Hmm, just realized that I left it way too vague as to when we'll show up.

[X] Okay, you don't want to talk; I get that. But the way you've said it tells me that you match the profile I'm looking for, that you're more important than you realize. Don't be so willing to give that up, especially not to... well, you'll see, if its little plushie butt starts sniffing around here.
[X] I'll probably be around here again tomorrow, say 10 o'clock. You can try looking me up, but I'm pretty sure I don't have a legal identity to find. If you do find something, um, let me know? I've been trying to find out, well, anything about me for awhile now. No luck yet, but hey, maybe a fresh pair of eyes can help.
[X] Talk to Kyoko when you're finished with Sasa.
-[X] Um, yeah, sorry about that.
-[X] Be right there.
[X] Head over to Kyoko.
-[X] If you can do it by flying away from a dead-end alley, putting on a Grief-bended Ring of Invisibility, or some other way to play up your mysterious-ness for Sasa, do that.

 

[Ugolino]

Not the point of his vote. It's one of his goals, but it isn't the point of the vote. It's also one of my goals: I don't want to sit here talking to a brick bitch wall for another IRL week. I want moar bests and less worsts, dammit! And if I can't have Mumi at least I can have Koko! But this Sasa drivel is gettin on mah nerves!

Anyway. The point of his vote is to get us a hook into Sasa for future use and then leave. He's doing it by performing a total 180 from the previous face we were displaying and leaving her wondering if we were just pretending to be an airheaded foreigner.

He's doing a really good job of it. Really, really good job. That's all we could want, I think.

Click to shrink...

It...Really won't make her wonder anything. It'll make her hate our guts. That's all it'll accomplish well as I see it.

And honestly, >disregard everything, hug the Mumi isn't really good characterization. There's plenty of that in story only and inevitably a lot more to come. Not every update needs to be obsessively interacting with cutes. Even meow quest had some semblance of actual non-fluff interaction towards the goal. That's kinda what a quest is.

 

[Redshirt Army]

What?

That's just throwing in the towel.

I mean, really?

That's just flipping the table and saying "I don't care what this does to quest events lol, bored of social". That'll be awful for characterization too.

I mean, Redshirt, you're basically saying a vote for you is a vote to intentionally ruin things with Sasa in a way that'd potentially backfire on us. Because it'd be "interesting".

aaaaaa

Click to shrink...

I mean, I'm trying to flip the table in a vaguely productive way.
• Everything Sabrina says in my vote is true:

The way you've said it [massive neurotic bitchfest] tells me you fit the profile I'm looking for [people I need to look out for because they'll make dumb wishes out of spite].

You're more important than you realize [because you could fuck up this timeline, of literally omniversal importance]. You shouldn't be willing to give that up [to Kyubey, no fucking kidding.]

I'll be around again sometime [to make sure you haven't caused the universe to collapse into a singularity of worst]. I don't have a legal identity [...we don't].

• It resets our impression from "weird pushy foreigner" to "jebus fuck magic bullshit", which is honestly probably a step up. For all the claims of massive arrogance, the major message communicated is "you're important and matter to weird bullshit magicians because reasons", which is... true?

• It very directly opens us up for further contact with her - and if I'm reading her right, she'll be the one pushing for it.

• And, yes, it'll be way more fun to read than yet another rehash of "over-apologetic busybody", an approach that has repeatedly failed.

I'm flipping the board, but isn't that the quickest way to knock over the enemy king?

 

[TheEyes]

Anyway. The point of his vote is to get us a hook into Sasa for future use and then leave. He's doing it by performing a total 180 from the previous face we were displaying and leaving her wondering if we were just pretending to be an airheaded foreigner.

He's doing a really good job of it. Really, really good job. That's all we could want, I think.

Click to shrink...

The problem is that he's doing it by playing up Sabrina as exactly the kind of arrogant little shit that Sasa has a massive hate-boner for, to the point that it seriously puts us in danger of the Incubators manipulating a retaliatory Wish out of her that targets Sabrina.

 

[Ugolino]

Hmm, just realized that I left it way too vague as to when we'll show up.

[X] Okay, you don't want to talk; I get that. But the way you've said it tells me that you match the profile I'm looking for, that you're more important than you realize. Don't be so willing to give that up, especially not to... well, you'll see, if its little plushie butt starts sniffing around here.
[X] I'll probably be around here again tomorrow, say 10 o'clock. You can try looking me up, but I'm pretty sure I don't have a legal identity to find. If you do find something, um, let me know? I've been trying to find out, well, anything about me for awhile now. No luck yet, but hey, maybe a fresh pair of eyes can help.
[X] Talk to Kyoko when you're finished with Sasa.
-[X] Um, yeah, sorry about that.
-[X] Be right there.
[X] Head over to Kyoko.
-[X] If you can do it by flying away from a dead-end alley, putting on a Grief-bended Ring of Invisibility, or some other way to play up your mysterious-ness for Sasa, do that.

Click to shrink...

Too mysterious, cocky, and tipping our hand about magic without actually telling her useful things. Which we don't have time atm to do properly. Also, ech "profile"...

I mean, I'm trying to flip the table in a vaguely productive way.
• Everything Sabrina says in my vote is true:

The way you've said it [massive neurotic bitchfest] tells me you fit the profile I'm looking for [people I need to look out for because they'll make dumb wishes out of spite].

You're more important than you realize [because you could fuck up this timeline, of literally omniversal importance]. You shouldn't be willing to give that up [to Kyubey, no fucking kidding.]

I'll be around again sometime [to make sure you haven't caused the universe to collapse into a singularity of worst]. I don't have a legal identity [...we don't].

• It resets our impression from "weird pushy foreigner" to "jebus fuck magic bullshit", which is honestly probably a step up. For all the claims of massive arrogance, the major message communicated is "you're important and matter to weird bullshit magicians because reasons", which is... true?

• It very directly opens us up for further contact with her - and if I'm reading her right, she'll be the one pushing for it.

• And, yes, it'll be way more fun to read than yet another rehash of "over-apologetic busybody", an approach that has repeatedly failed.

I'm flipping the board, but isn't that the quickest way to knock over the enemy king?

Click to shrink...

Flipping the board is just getting chess pieces everywhere for no good reason. It's not playing a game or doing anything.

Truth is irrelevant, what matters is the TONE. It's trashing any chance of a good outcome in a way that comes over as LOL KILL SASA.

Basically, it oozes arrogance to any listener when it really doesn't need to do that. I'd rather do busybody some more because at least it doesn't make Sabrina an asshole in the process and it's more likely to get SOME of what we're (ideally) after.

The problem is that he's doing it by playing up Sabrina as exactly the kind of arrogant little shit that Sasa has a massive hate-boner for, to the point that it seriously puts us in danger of the Incubators manipulating a retaliatory Wish out of her that targets Sabrina.

Click to shrink...

Frankly, we'd deserve it if we did do that. I mean honestly, she comes over as extremely facepunchable in that vote dialogue.

 

[crowbar]

I"m fine with any path that leads to us breaking her kneecaps .

 

[Ugolino]

I"m fine with any path that leads to us braking her kneecaps .

Click to shrink...

...There goes Sabrina's entire characterization. You'd have just put Sabrina's entire character through the shredder to have her kneecap someone for shits and giggles.

Well done, you'd have voted to turn a character with dozens of pages of characterization written in a story worth reading and reading into a sadistic, murderous, impulsive thug. I'm sure Mami and Sayaka will love to hear about that from QB. Or Madoka, even.

But hey, Sasa a shit, amirite? What's characterization? What's consistency? Are those things you eat?

 

[Onmur]

I"m fine with any path that leads to us braking her kneecaps .

Click to shrink...

Homu will be proud.

(Though, she'd be prouder if we break Sasa's kneecaps, rathen than braking them)

 

[Redshirt Army]

There's a reason I normally stay out of social votes. PMAS updates where we do this kind of dialogue are all but unreadable to me. I have to force myself through them for the sake of plot coherency and tend to skip them on re-reads.

Is Sasa more or less likely to contract after any of the suggested votes? Who fucking knows! Between her massive back catalogue of issues, social cues being goddamn impossible to interpret in text, and the fifty bajillion different approaches the Incubator could take, I could argue either side of that issue for every single suggested vote.

And if all votes have an equal chance of success in my mind (nofuckingclue%), then you better believe I'm voting for the one I want to read most.

 

[Ugolino]

There's a reason I normally stay out of social votes. PMAS updates where we do this kind of dialogue are all but unreadable to me. I have to force myself through them for the sake of plot coherency and tend to skip them on re-reads.

Is Sasa more or less likely to contract after any of the suggested votes? Who fucking knows! Between her massive back catalogue of issues, social cues being goddamn impossible to interpret in text, and the fifty bajillion different approaches the Incubator could take, I could argue either side of that issue for every single suggested vote.

And if all votes have an equal chance of success in my mind (nofuckingclue%), then you better believe I'm voting for the one I want to read most.

Click to shrink...

The answer to Sasa's issues isn't all that complicated-she's pricky, insecure about people seeming better than her, and is fairly selfish and all three of those can be handled with some forethought-and neither is most social.

It just requires us to avoid the flashing red characterization landmines and say the right thing in as many words as it takes to get the desired response. Not just giving up at the first setback is also kindaa a prerequisite.

And, no, not all social votes are equal and some are definitely worse than others. Change things from her canon state of mind and boom, progress.

 

[Kaizuki]

The problem is that he's doing it by playing up Sabrina as exactly the kind of arrogant little shit that Sasa has a massive hate-boner for, to the point that it seriously puts us in danger of the Incubators manipulating a retaliatory Wish out of her that targets Sabrina.

Click to shrink...

No, I disagree. This isn't arrogance, it's confidence. We're not displaying behavior that triggers her bullshit, we're displaying behavior that should give her a different opinion of who we are than we previously did (the previous behavior certainly triggered her bullshit, so...)

It's like... It's like we just spent 10m being a schoolgirl, and that schoolgirl pissed her off. Now we're suddenly going to turn into a policewoman (analogy) and we're not going to give her time to react to it. The only thing we're giving her is a hint of something she can't provide an explanation for, this girl who is a schoolgirl but isn't, something she won't be able to pidgeonhole into her worldview without more information.

It...Really won't make her wonder anything. It'll make her hate our guts. That's all it'll accomplish well as I see it.

And honestly, >disregard everything, hug the Mumi isn't really good characterization. There's plenty of that in story only and inevitably a lot more to come. Not every update needs to be obsessively interacting with cutes. Even meow quest had some semblance of actual non-fluff interaction towards the goal. That's kinda what a quest is.

Click to shrink...

...

Not what I'm aiming for here. I just prefer interacting with cooperative people, polite (or at least TsunDere) people, etc. etc., and just generally people who aren't worst. And PMAS doesn't update nearly fast enough for me to be all and and XD all the time. It used to, apparently, but.

...There goes Sabrina's entire characterization.

Well done, you'd have voted to turn a character with dozens of pages of characterization written in a story worth reading and reading into a sadistic, murderous, impulsive thug. I'm sure Mami and Sayaka will love to hear about that from QB. Or Madoka, even.

But hey, Sasa a shit, amirite? What's characterization? What's consistency? Are those things you eat?

Click to shrink...

We aren't breaking kneecaps and we aren't giving up on Sasa. We need to step back for now, because...

Well, we could take Redshirt's vote and modify it. Doing the 180 would be a conversation reset, if we wanted to try something more here that's how I'd do it.

We don't like her attitude, Ugo. We don't like her. But she's a part of this, and that means we have some responsibility to her. We will pursue that responsibility, to an extent limited by our capabilities, both emotional and physical.

 

[Ugolino]

No, I disagree. This isn't arrogance, it's confidence. We're not displaying behavior that triggers her bullshit, we're displaying behavior that should give her a different opinion of who we are than we previously did (the previous behavior certainly triggered her bullshit, so...)

It's like... It's like we just spent 10m being a schoolgirl, and that schoolgirl pissed her off. Now we're suddenly going to turn into a policewoman (analogy) and we're not going to give her time to react to it. The only thing we're giving her is a hint of something she can't provide an explanation for, this girl who is a schoolgirl but isn't, something she won't be able to pidgeonhole into her worldview without more information.



...

Not what I'm aiming for here. I just prefer interacting with cooperative people, polite (or at least TsunDere) people, etc. etc., and just generally people who aren't worst. And PMAS doesn't update nearly fast enough for me to be all and and XD all the time. It used to, apparently, but.



We aren't breaking kneecaps and we aren't giving up on Sasa. We need to step back for now, because...

Well, we could take Redshirt's vote and modify it. Doing the 180 would be a conversation reset, if we wanted to try something more here that's how I'd do it.

We don't like her attitude, Ugo. We don't like her. But she's a part of this, and that means we have some responsibility to her. We will pursue that responsibility, to an extent limited by our capabilities, both emotional and physical.

Click to shrink...

No, it's absolutely arrogance, objectively. Just tonewise, it talks down to and orders her, never mind how Sasa sees A LOT of things as getting on her nerves.

If we go full authority lecturing figure, Sasa won't be curious. She'll lash out and we'll have shot ourselves in the foot because her main canon trait is hating that sort of thing.

Voting to go "meh social I'm bored" is begging for well-deserved trouble down the line and it will be entirely on our own heads.

 

[Redshirt Army]

The answer to Sasa's issues isn't all that complicated-she's pricky, insecure about people seeming better than her, and is fairly selfish and all three of those can be handled with some forethought-and neither is most social.

It just requires us to avoid the flashing red characterization landmines and say the right thing in as many words as it takes to get the desired response.

And, no, not all social votes are equal and some are definitely worse than others. Change things from her canon state of mind and boom, progress.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, whatever. A bunch of people crazy enough to actually enjoy social ( ) disagreed with you on an approach, and we had literally no vote consensus until Plan Tableflip happened. That should be evidence enough that the "correct" approach isn't self-evident. As a matter of fact, I did take those characteristics of her into account with my plan - the fact you think I didn't just proves my point.

 

[Ugolino]

Yeah, whatever. A bunch of people crazy enough to actually enjoy social ( ) disagreed with you on an approach, and we had literally no vote concencus until Plan Tableflip happened. That should be evidence enough that the "correct" approach isn't self-evident. As a matter of fact, I did take those characteristics of her into account with my plan - the fact you think I didn't just proves my point.

Click to shrink...

Appeal to popularity is meaningless. People being wrong en-masse doesn't make them less wrong.

And your plan doesn't work for her traits as shown in canon and to date here. At all.

 

[Kaizuki]

No, it's absolutely arrogance, objectively. Just tonewise, it talks down to and orders her, never mind how Sasa sees A LOT of things as getting on her nerves.

If we go full authority lecturing figure, Sasa won't be curious. She'll lash out and we'll have shot ourselves in the foot because her main canon trait is hating that sort of thing.

Voting to go "meh social I'm bored" is begging for well-deserved trouble down the line and it will be entirely on our own heads.

Click to shrink...

Can I ask you to go read the vote again, carefully, and the posts that went into editing it? If you'd object to specific parts of it and give reasons for objecting to those parts we could do a better job of working on it.

If we sit here and disagree over arrogance we will get nowhere.

 

[landcollector]

...There goes Sabrina's entire characterization. You'd have just put Sabrina's entire character through the shredder to have her kneecap someone for shits and giggles.

Well done, you'd have voted to turn a character with dozens of pages of characterization written in a story worth reading and reading into a sadistic, murderous, impulsive thug. I'm sure Mami and Sayaka will love to hear about that from QB. Or Madoka, even.

But hey, Sasa a shit, amirite? What's characterization? What's consistency? Are those things you eat?

Click to shrink...

The emote should have indicated he wasn't seriously advocating that, Ugo.

It just requires us to avoid the flashing red characterization landmines and say the right thing in as many words as it takes to get the desired response. Not just giving up at the first setback is also kindaa a prerequisite.

Click to shrink...

Again, time is a factor. You're monofocusing, to the detriment of other priorities.

 

[TheEyes]

Yeah, whatever. A bunch of people crazy enough to actually enjoy social ( ) disagreed with you on an approach, and we had literally no vote concencus until Plan Tableflip happened. That should be evidence enough that the "correct" approach isn't self-evident. As a matter of fact, I did take those characteristics of her into account with my plan - the fact you think I didn't just proves my point.

Click to shrink...

Heh, you've got 24% of the vote; that's hardly a consensus.

Though I've got nobody agreeing with Plan Mysterious Victim, so I guess I can't talk.

 

[Onmur]

If anybody wants to do fancy, I'd say just don't go overboard.

You can just do simple.

[] Telepathy Kyouko that you'll be there soon.
[] Apologize to Sasa for the trouble
-[] I hope we meet again! We can have that ice cream then!
[] Wait until Sasa turns her back on you, if she hasn't already.
-[] Head over to Kyoko, by way of blasting off into the sky flying so hard Sasa will hear you take off.

 

[Kaizuki]

The emote should have indicated he wasn't seriously advocating that, Ugo.


Again, time is a factor. You're monofocusing, to the detriment of other priorities.

Click to shrink...

AND YOU! DO YOU JUST STALK THIS THREAD, GIVING CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM AND TELLING PEOPLE TO CALM DOWN? WHAT KIND OF POSTER ARE YOU, ANYWAY? WHERE IS THE RAGE? THE FIRE? THE ASSWHUPPINGS? THE ALL-CAPS?

...

Sorry, I don't know what came over me. It was so strange... I had this random urge to post something odd...

 

[AuraTwilight]

So, forgive me if this is stupid, but is there any reason we can't just straight up ask Yuuki what would get us on her good side, and tell her an honest-but-nonmagical reason why, like "I want to be your friend so you can enjoy life better?"

 

[landcollector]

AND YOU! DO YOU JUST STALK THIS THREAD, GIVING CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM AND TELLING PEOPLE TO CALM DOWN? WHAT KIND OF POSTER ARE YOU, ANYWAY? WHERE IS THE RAGE? THE FIRE? THE ASSWHUPPINGS? THE ALL-CAPS?

Click to shrink...

Heh. That's most prevalent in another quest for me.