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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Onmur said:
Actually, something I thought:

Little to no self esteem, dark haired girl who thinks the World of her, gets vindicated through helping others...

Am I talking about Oriko or about Madoka so far?

:p
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Depending on how dark you want to make Mami's hair that also fits Sabrina.
(Plot twist: We are Madoka! Also Oriko.
Also Walpurgis and Feathers.
The one causing our problems is ourselves! Repeatedly!)
 
Onmur said:
Actually, something I thought:

Little to no self esteem, dark haired girl who thinks the World of her, gets vindicated through helping others...

Am I talking about Oriko or about Madoka so far?

:p
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Oriko's rant made me think of Sayaka as well.

From part three- it almost reads as though Oriko got control of her magic just by using it "wholeheartedly".

Also relevant- "she is who she is and she should become someone she wants to be...>Don't become like me."
 
Ugolino said:
Oriko's rant made me think of Sayaka as well.

From part three- it almost reads as though Oriko got control of her magic just by using it "wholeheartedly".

Also relevant- "she is who she is and she should become someone she wants to be...>Don't become like me."
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And that she doesn't owe anything to anybody and should live for herself, and not accept the blame others want to pin on her.

Basically say no to Oriko's life.

That's when Oriko realizes the meaning to her life, I believe.

She tells Yuma she deserves better and should ask for help as much as she's telling it to herself.

That's why she can be more open with Kirika afterwards, she accepts it's OK for herself to be loved.

It really all comes back to her shithead of a father.
 
Ugolino said:
Hmmm.

We can use that in our vote, I think.
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Shortest I could put it is telling Kirika a little about Oriko's dad: He taught her she should be nice and try to help the World...
Ugolino said:
No one needs me!"
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which coming from him was the shittiest of lies.

Keeping in mind Japan's japanness, Hisaomi very much left Oriko to take blame for everything, as a scapegoat after he took the easy way out and traumatized his daughter througly at the same time.

Ugolino said:
Oriko feels that thinking of yourself as a good person is arrogant,
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So Oriko blames herself, very much.

But she doesn't want to. It's true without her Wish she wouldn't have found her life's meaning, or rather wouldn't have accepted that her life had meaning to start with; her Wish showed her Yuma's death, and so Oriko found herself in a situation in which she could avoid that, but only by doing the hard thing and working her wants, her feelings into words.

It's said saying something out loud helps believe it.

Problem here is that while Kirika knows what Oriko needs, love, it's Oriko herself who needs to admit she's worth that much.

Kirika's giving her all she can of herself, and telling her how much she cares, repeatedly.

We've maintained Oriko's worth all the trouble we're going through for her.

Oriko is doubtful. It would hurt if she accepted it and was wrong afterwards.

... It took a very precise situation for Symmetry Oriko to admit her feelings, one where she couldn't move forward without vocalizing her thoughts she had been doing her best to keep shut deep down.

We don't have the power to enforce such a situation. We break things, and I fear we're gonna break Oriko further before she gets better -she accepted she might've been wrong about her meaning today, and it hurts her, so I think that's the only real progress we'll get out of her today.

We should tell ALL the things to Kirika, though.
 
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[x]Eavesdropping proof if it's not already up. This isn't for Kyubey's ears.
[x]I...I just want her to believe that there's another, better way for things to go. She seems to feel that there's only one way for this to end, that it'd be better that way...and that isn't true. I was trying to get her to think about that.
[x]Tell her anything else you can think of about the events of that timeline. How she had trouble with controlling her magic. How she blamed herself, and her magic. How she realized the meaning of her life after fighting for Kirika and helping Yuma.
-[x]Tell her, word for word, what led up to that Oriko's revelation.
--[x]You're what matters to Oriko. It might not be something I can get through to her on- or she'd want to hear from me.
[x]Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's part of what Oriko needs here. Part of why her magic's the way it is. And even if it isn't...I think it'd help if she could admit it to herself.
[x]You're probably the only person who can get through to her, here and now, I think. Maybe, just try and get her to talk about what matters to her. Try and get her to see that it doesn't have to be this way and it isn't easier or better. That she has value for being herself too. Get her to think about things, and don't let her just accept this. Don't let her...give up.
[x]Kirika...I might know things, but...I'm not sure I'm doing this the right way. What do you think?

Reworked the vote.

@Knightfall
@apeljohn
Thoughts?

Guys, we really need to make sure we craft the best vote possible here. Please nitpick it/tell me if this approach or summary is bad?
 
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[x] Ugo-kun

Previous analysis is very important and I think your vote can stress that a bit more. Emphasize the part about how she needs to realize she deserves better and that she has value even without magic and, god forbid, even without Kirika! She makes a big hubbabaloo about how she seems to imply meaning with being needed, so just shifting the buck to "Kirika needs you" isn't quite good enough (though better).

She needs to have value in her existence even if she's not using it to save the world. She needs more agency, but also to care about it less.
 
AuraTwilight said:
[x] Ugo-kun

Previous analysis is very important and I think your vote can stress that a bit more. Emphasize the part about how she needs to realize she deserves better and that she has value even without magic and, god forbid, even without Kirika! She makes a big hubbabaloo about how she seems to imply meaning with being needed, so just shifting the buck to "Kirika needs you" isn't quite good enough (though better).

She needs to have value in her existence even if she's not using it to save the world. She needs more agency, but also to care about it less.
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Added one line. Better?

May revise summary of SD or shamelessly crib if better summaries come along.
 
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It's better. Honestly yea we should just feed Kirika everything and get her feedback before we commit to any plans.
 
The vote seems pretty good so far.
We have to make sure to give Kirika all the information we can and make sure to hear her ideas on the matter. After all she knows her Oriko better than anyone else and I think she has a way better chance to get through to Oriko than us. We can support her, but she has to be the one to save her ojou.

I think Kirika has to be the one to work on the epiphany side of things, while we may have to work on Oriko's overall agency. Homura isn't going to budge anytime soon on the house arrest, but maybe we can get her consent for some shopping trips or other short trips, just to get Oriko out of the house for a while.

Come on Homura, have a heart and let them leave the house for a date or at least for some ice cream or a double ice cream date with Mami and Sabrina.
 
Did Someone Just Called Me at the second to the last page?

And a Vote:

[X] Redshirt Army
 
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Guilop said:
Come on Homura, have a heart and let them leave the house for a date or at least for some ice cream or a double ice cream date with Mami and Sabrina.
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Unless she has a way to eliminate the girls immediately if something fishy occurs, I doubt she will acquiesce with our request. Paranoia is very strong in that one. You bite her once, she will neutralize you in every timeline afterwards.
 
The "Homura kills Oriko and Kirika in every succeeding timeline" part is fanon. Then again, it could explain why they weren't around in the canon timeline.
 
UbeOne said:
The "Homura kills Oriko and Kirika in every succeeding timeline" part is fanon. Then again, it could explain why they weren't around in the canon timeline.
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Fanon it may be, but it still doesn't change the fact that she doesn't trust those who had once opposed her objective. Oriko even tried again in this timeline. After all, attacking Sayaka is just the same as attacking Madoka to her. She's really not going to let her try for the third time.
 
Guuuuuyyyyyyyyysssssssss... We just have to propose it as a business sort of thing.

We're not gonna ask Homu if we can go on a date with Oriko.

We're gonna tell Mami and Homu that, after having observed O&K's behavior in containment for some days, we need to test how they would react to a less restrained enviroment in which they could appreciate a certain degree of freedom, false as it may be -Mami and us will be there, after all.

Why, yes, a restaurant sounds like the perfect place to observe Oriko and Kirika. Don't want to waste our and Mami's time doing something boring, after all.

And if they try anything, we'll be close enough to react in time.

Flawless plan.

UbeOne said:
The "Homura kills Oriko and Kirika in every succeeding timeline" part is fanon. Then again, it could explain why they weren't around in the canon timeline.
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IIRC, she did in PMAS, until she realized it wasn't necessary -O&K didn't contract, normally.
 
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