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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Higure said:
Do we actually need to to create lift here? We can move Grief however we want, disregarding physics in the process.

Keep the wings for style, but don't bother actually flapping them. Instead, just move them like we do our marbles.
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Given my math so far, it is stupid amounts of cheap for us to generate lift. We can carry 135 lbs ontop of our own body weight and the wings (assuming they have mass) and only need 50 lbs of thrust, traveling at about 40 feet per second (27 mph).
 
...if you all don't make the Grief Hoverboard as cool as the ones in "Back to the Future" I will be severely cross.
 
Crasian01 said:
Seriously though, computer aided flight is strictly *UNnecessary*. You can very easily design an airplane such that it's stable and controllable without a computer and still turn on a freakishly tiny dime. The basic physics is the same for literally every lifting surface ever, so if we're only gliding on Grief Wings, then it's easy to just apply standard analysis to the wings and be done with it.

It only gets weird if we insist on flapping wings, but if we can figure out a way to get forward motion without flapping, again the physics and math are all the same.
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There's a huge difference between airplane wings and peudo-bird wings like we have. Airplane wings for the most part stay in the same position and generate lift just by moving forward with propulsion from engines. We're using flapping wings to directly push the air down. It's ridiculously more unstable.
 
inverted_helix said:
There's a huge difference between airplane wings and peudo-bird wings like we have. Airplane wings for the most part stay in the same position and generate lift just by moving forward with propulsion from engines. We're using flapping wings to directly push the air down. It's ridiculously more unstable.
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Oh sure, don't get me wrong, EVERYTHING I'm calculating goes completely out the window if we assume that flight will occur due to flapping rather than propulsion via a system.

HOWEVER, by my current calculations, we only need to get to about 54 mph in order to take off while carrying *1000 lbs* of payload. An estimate of the runway distance for that payload is 346 ft, which isn't trivial, but that assumes Not Megucas. Depending on what you want to believe, it seems entirely reasonable to me that Sabrina can run at about 60 to 70 mph and accelerate extremely rapidly. In addition, previously noted telekinesis of grief implies that any grief-made object can be moved at some speed and made to hover at some height relative to the user.

In that respect, I hereby argue that Sabrina should shape her wings into long, flat plates, hold them at an angle of about 10 degrees, and then telekinesis them forward. I can plug in various numbers, but, just to give a ballpark, my current math indicates that:

Payload = 0
Takeoff Speed = 18.4 MPH;
Payload = 150
Takeoff Speed = 27 MPH;
Payload = 300
Takeoff Speed = 33.4 MPH;
Payload = 450
Takeoff Speed = 38.7 MPH;

Maximum Glide Distance, starting at a height of 500 feet and Payload of 400 lbs: 2835.6 feet

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I am confident in those numbers, but standard caveats for error, miscalculation, etc.
 
...or we can just bypass wings altogether and make a suit of grief, which we can directly control however we want. Lift, thrust, hovering, fine maneuvering, you name it. The only limit (aside from what our physical body can handle, which is a lot) is how strongly we can manipulate the grief while we're inside a suit of it.

Also, we don't need to block our own vision with the suit. Leaving eye holes, and maybe a space for the mouth, would be perfectly fine (and easy).

As for learning the technique, we could just start out with a partial suit of grief--one that provides physical support all-around, allowing for flight--that we only form on an as-needed basis, and dispel upon landing. Makes articulation a non-issue, since you don't exactly need to do fine movements when flying in complete disregard for physics.
 
Well I think Magic doesn't give a shit about aerodynamics.

[x] CannonGerbil.
 
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[X] Grief Ornithopter
[X] Return to Mami's house. Get on the computer. Look up "Gen Urobuchi."

I will not give up on my quest for full meta!!!
 
It's worth noting that literally the only reason to choose any one method of transportation is what you think is the most badass. We're not energy constrained since we can control our own grief, so if we wish to become SabrinaRocket and go to the Moon, we have the power to do so.

Hell, we could literally make a stairway to heaven with our own grief.
 
Crasian01 said:
It's worth noting that literally the only reason to choose any one method of transportation is what you think is the most badass. We're not energy constrained since we can control our own grief, so if we wish to become SabrinaRocket and go to the Moon, we have the power to do so.

Hell, we could literally make a stairway to heaven with our own grief.
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...for a second, I thought you wanted to make a Stand instead of an actual staircase. :V
 
Crasian01 said:
It's worth noting that literally the only reason to choose any one method of transportation is what you think is the most badass. We're not energy constrained since we can control our own grief, so if we wish to become SabrinaRocket and go to the Moon, we have the power to do so.

Hell, we could literally make a stairway to heaven with our own grief.
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Think about what you're saying for a second. No, really. Think about it.

...

Are you seriously saying that omnidirectional, full-dexterity, perfect maneuverability flight capability that is as small as our person and doubles as a suit of armor is not superior to giant grief-wings spanning over a dozen meters that we have to flap and ride heat currents to get anywhere with? Not to mention the whole landing aspect--we tried landing with grief-wings. It resulted in us crashing and tumbling off the roof of a goddamn building.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Think about what you're saying for a second. No, really. Think about it.

...

Are you seriously saying that omnidirectional, full-dexterity, perfect maneuverability flight capability that is as small as our person and doubles as a suit of armor is not superior to giant grief-wings spanning over a dozen meters that we have to flap and ride heat currents to get anywhere with?
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It isn't.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Think about what you're saying for a second. No, really. Think about it.

...

Are you seriously saying that omnidirectional, full-dexterity, perfect maneuverability flight capability that is as small as our person and doubles as a suit of armor is not superior to giant grief-wings spanning over a dozen meters that we have to flap and ride heat currents to get anywhere with? Not to mention the whole landing aspect--we tried landing with grief-wings. It resulted in us crashing and tumbling off the roof of a goddamn building.
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No no, you misunderstand. I'm saying that literally anything goes.

We should analyze the trade-offs between various modes of transportation in more depth depending on what situations Firnagzen ends up giving us. But if there's a situation where we need to jump off a large structure and make my way basically silently (to magic sense) across a huge distance while carrying Homura under one arm and Mami under the other, I would 100% prefer the huge ass wings.

That's just me though, and there are other practical considerations we need to consider before we make *ANY* vote for such a scenario.
 
I agree with Ugo. Practicality has its place, but WINGS OF GRIEF SOARING ON A BLACKENED SKY is just way too metal to pass up on.
 
Grief Wings are just more badass than armor. Especially once we learn to weaponize them.

Giant eldritch wings covered in eyes/arcane circles/whatever suits us that shoot Grief-lasers and can be used as both shields and shapeshifting stabbing/slashing implements? Yes please.

Six of them? Even better.

Absolutely massive? Definitely.

As for controlling them...I see no reason to actually use our wings like wings, when we can easily...

Alternatively, just make both. Grief Armor can be used for passive defense and propulsion, etc. Grief wings can be badass, are great for combat (see above), and be used for long range passive gliding. Did I mention they're badass?
 
I entirely stand by my words. (Not that I have need to, considering the Hora.)

Armor implies personal vulnerability and weakness. You wear armor if you're afraid of being stabbed or shot. That's not particularly badass.

Wings? Wings imply glory and power. They allow one to literally rise above others and leave them in awe. They're symbols of freedom and divinity. That's badass.

Edit: Just saw Hora, thank you Gerbil. That pic is disturbing.
 
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