Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
FlatlineAskari
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Spending hours, plural, on a measure that doesn't fix the problem, when the best (only) lead we have on an actual solution is maybe an hour away, is just plain dumb.
Also, you're assuming that we'll be in a better position to handle outsider in a week than now, when we know we have an evening free of anything life-or-death to do.
Also, you're assuming that letting the just-possibly-crazy outsider find out where we live before dealing with her is in our favor.
We don't need her to come here; we need her to use her powers for us. Mountain, Mohammed, et cetera.
What is contacting her first supposed to accomplish?
I'm going to say that the "maybe" makes trying to fly overseas more than a little silly. As far as I'm concerned, we have no reason to go there and leave the vicinity of Mitakihara- and Oriko herself when she's coming to us.
Yes, we are because we'll have further prep time. What we don't have is the time to mount an expedition to another country and ditch our current problems for a "this might possibly help" approach when it'll happen anyway in the very near future.
It kind of is- we have enough friendly magical girls here to deal with a worst case scenario better than attacking her on her own turf.
Her using her powers is going to involve her coming to us or us dragging Oriko overseas. I think I know which one I'd prefer.
- Location
- South Africa
It's meant to establish if she's willing or at least can be convinced and for her to tell us exactly where to find her.
FlatlineAskari
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If the 'maybe' proves to be a 'no', we need to know ASAP because it means we have no means of attacking the problem at all.
We can trivially take Oriko with us.
If we don't have time to spend tonight on an expedition, we don't have time to spend tonight on an enchantment, either. Mami's estimate for developing an enchantment was 'I think this should be possible'.
'A week from now' is not 'the very near future'. If Homura or Mami or Sayaka were incapacitated, we wouldn't be messing around, we'd be getting shit done right the fuck ten minutes ago. Why is this any different?
Why?
She is more likely to be convinced in person.
Any time spent attempting to contact her via unproven magic is time that could be spent reaching her in person by proven ones. We can turn a rough location into a face-to-face conversation very quickly.
We're meeting her in person eventually. This is not a good use of time. Enchantment is a direct result based on a reliable ally's aid, not a wild goose chase. We shouldn't go off on a quest for Eurogirl when we have Mami right on hand to help us and Eurogirl's confirmed to be coming here sooner rather than later. A week is plenty of time to exhaust our other options before being desperate enough to try begging an unknown.
Also given that we have issues getting to Kasamino and back on time, [citation needed] on that optimistic travel time estimate.
Also..unproven? Enchantment's fairly established. Mami's saying it should be possible, with her experience? Yeah, that's better than flying to a foreign country for help and throwing all our other problems and responsibilities to the wind in the process. I don't think it's possible to vote for that in good conscience and expect anything positive to happen of our absence- even assuming that it'd go well in the first place which is a major and completely unwarranted assumption.
This is not helping Oriko. It's running off on a wild goose chase at the faintest hope of "this might help" for a girl of uncertain powerset and mental state...and especially egregious when we know she's coming to us. This argument would apply no matter who was incapacitated.
Also approaching the girl who'd show up anyway on her home turf when we have no idea what she's like or how many friends she has? Yeah, no, let's not do that for very little reason.
We aren't going to throw away in progress efforts for: keeping Mitakihara safe, Madoka, Mami, our attempts to build bridges and set up meguca social networking, Walpurgisnacht preparation, our actual research, and hell, even Nagisa... just because we're so desperate to help Oriko that we'd ignore every sensible option in favor of trying some last resort with a girl who might just be a lunatic or unable to help. If we have any sense, that is.
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Lovnag
Clumsy little penguin
- Location
- Antarctica
I just don't see the reason what is the big deal if we spend just 4-5 hours on it. It is not like we are going way out of our way to do that. I can't imagine why we can't just sort it out and move on, whatever the result is. Enchantment is possible, but I doubt we will be able to develop it in time. Worst case scenario - Oriko looses her precog abilities. These have proven to be very useful for us. We really don't want that to happen. And that is only a progmatic point of view.
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FlatlineAskari
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What other options?
Firn confirmed that we don't have a top speed, just a maximum acceleration. Our survivable acceleration is superhuman. If we don't mind being uncomfortable, we can go extremely fast.
She says it should be possible, eventually. This is beyond her experience.
Besides, it is not a solution.
If we can afford to spend tonight enchanting, we can afford to spend tonight travelling.
If it is a 'wild goose chase', we need to establish this as soon as possible so we can formulate another response. It is presently our only lead.
Uhhh no, that's not the worst case.
It's massively overestimating the ease and practicality of flying all the way to a specific location in europe we've never been to before, making a friendly first contact, explaining ourselves, getting her to agree, and having it happen. To the point of being wishful thinking. Above all, it puts us out of contact when we have Sayaka, Madoka, and the local situation to manage.
Enchantment is the sensible option. The one we KNOW will work from Mami.
Oh no but what about Oriko, she'd totally be uncomfortable.
Yeah, no, you're assuming. I'd rather trust Mami's judgement than gamble on an unknown we're going to meet anyway.
I'm quite happy to go for the likely-to-succeed plan rather than throwing away time to move a meeting up a few days on our schedule. We can safely ignore the gambling option for a week. It's an alternative to the sane, sensible, practical option and absolutely nothing more.
If we have any sense we are not dropping everything to go fly to Europe to meet a girl who'd come to us in a week. If nothing else, her coming to us makes her becoming a long term ally more likely.
There's a smart way to fix Oriko. That isn't it. At all.
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FlatlineAskari
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You're insisting on a longer talk to Madoka and an extended training session for Sayaka and still consider it an unacceptable risk to turn our back on them for a few hours?
My interpretation is that the emotions and the voters coexist but aren't the same. The emotions get the results of the votes on a fax machine.
This is true of every quest protagonist. The only difference with Sabrina is someone hacked a connection to the outside world in the voting chamber.
I choose to believe that the person who did that looks like Hackerman even though there's no-one with him as their avatar.
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Lovnag
Clumsy little penguin
- Location
- Antarctica
You have a point there. It can take a little longer. But I believe we can do everything in European daytime, while Japan is sleeping.
Worst case - I mean, if we don't do anything. I understand that if we do something wrong... Well, for all we've managed to accomplish, I thnk our position is still very shaky.
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Cheerfully.
Because characters are not houseplants. You can't water them and just expect them to be alright afterwards for the rest of the week because they are going to have problems and emotions of their own, and require constant managing of the same. Especially in a situation where they are TARGETS. Kyubey is going to actively be trying to screw everyone over, and the last thing we'd EVER want to do is give him a clear field for it while everyone's still in a delicate mental state for various reasons. Because we are their friend, and that's what we are supposed to do, not go on a European joyride.
And that regret for saving Oriko and Kirika's coming back in force. This is not a useful way to help anyone, including them, and even if it was, the priorities are completely warped.
You don't help someone by throwing the reliable method out the window, rushing to go try the longshot, and disregarding everyone counting on us to do it.
Given the situation, I am completely against trying to rush through delicate negotiations and magical healing overnight, possibly alone, in a foreign country and probably up to our ears in local megucas. It'd be a bad idea at any time and right now it's suicidal.
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FlatlineAskari
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We think it will, eventually, yield a painkiller.
The 'likely to succeed' plan relies on precisely the same factors as the 'gambling' one, except it spends a night - perhaps considerably more - on something that we know will not fix the issue at hand.
You're making this up.
They are not going to spontaneously combust if we aren't available overnight. That's dumb.
And now you're just making shit up.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
While I'm comfortable leaving Mitakihara to go to the neighboring cities on a cleansing trip, who knows what kind of shit we can get involved in by flying to another continent, and what other shit can go down at home while we're not there.
Remember Feathers is supposed to take advantage of us leaving the city when it's its time to attack.
And that megucas need to send forward warning before intruding into another one's territory. Kyuubey would totally tell every meguca on the way that we just flew over their heads as we pleased.
And that we'd basically be advertising the fact we're in contact with a Seer, since how else would we know about Euroguca?
And we'd either have to take Oriko with us, in which case we'd be stomping on the progress we've made with Homura so far, or we'd have to leave her and Kirika... in Homura's care. Oh boy.
And I bet there's a lot of other problems beyond my comprehension right now.
Remember Feathers is supposed to take advantage of us leaving the city when it's its time to attack.
And that megucas need to send forward warning before intruding into another one's territory. Kyuubey would totally tell every meguca on the way that we just flew over their heads as we pleased.
And that we'd basically be advertising the fact we're in contact with a Seer, since how else would we know about Euroguca?
And we'd either have to take Oriko with us, in which case we'd be stomping on the progress we've made with Homura so far, or we'd have to leave her and Kirika... in Homura's care. Oh boy.
And I bet there's a lot of other problems beyond my comprehension right now.
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Frankly I trust Mami's judgement more than wishful thinking OOC.We think it will, eventually, yield a painkiller.
The 'likely to succeed' plan relies on precisely the same factors as the 'gambling' one, except it spends a night - perhaps considerably more - on something that we know will not fix the issue at hand.
You're making this up.
They are not going to spontaneously combust if we aren't available overnight. That's dumb.
And now you're just making shit up.
Except for the part where we know what enchantment does and Mami, an expert, is pretty sure it'd work.
I'm reading into her actions by coming all this way. For all we know, she might be planning to move in. Something we'd derail by dropping in on her. That's a potential local ally lost then.
Yeah, it's not like they're emotionally fragile timebombs actively being attacked by Kyubey and unknowns or anything, is it?
Do you think that time consuming and painful negotations are not going to take place in your fantasy plan? That there won't be local girls, and lots of them? That healing will happen instantaneously and without concessions demanded? Ones we might be unwilling to make and that we might avoid by simply waiting for this girl to come to us?
Have you planned your idea out beyond "go there really really fast and everything is magically fixed in time for breakfast and walking Mami to school?"
The problems with this plan are less a list and more a thesis paper.
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Lovnag
Clumsy little penguin
- Location
- Antarctica
What if we just make a yellow submarnie? How about that?(Please disregard my silly jokes)
On a more serious note, though - how about we ask Kuubey about situation in Europe?
Probably a bad idea. We sbouldn't trust it.
We desperately need information, though.
On a more serious note, though - how about we ask Kuubey about situation in Europe?
Probably a bad idea. We sbouldn't trust it.
We desperately need information, though.
FlatlineAskari
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Yes, and enchantment does not - cannot - fix what we are trying to fix. It is the definition of a stalling measure.
If we cannot trust them not to implode for a few hours, there is no acceptable plan.
We have considerable bargaining power. Assuming her problems are anything like conventional, she can pretty much name her price, and our capacity to generate clear seeds will cover it. If circumstances are otherwise, we still have options, like offering a safe haven.
If we aren't particularly worried about getting a good deal (and why would we be?), negotiations should not present a problem.
- Location
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There are major issues with dropping everything and going to Europe - starting with the issue that the current best descriptor we can give for our destination is 'Europe'. However, I feel compelled to say that enchantment isn't a solution.
It lets us permanently apply a magical effect, which is useful, once we find a magical effect that solves Oriko's issue. Which we haven't.
Either we do some wacky grief hi-jinx and permanency them, or we find someone who's specialty is applicable to the situation and permanency their magic.
It lets us permanently apply a magical effect, which is useful, once we find a magical effect that solves Oriko's issue. Which we haven't.
Either we do some wacky grief hi-jinx and permanency them, or we find someone who's specialty is applicable to the situation and permanency their magic.
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I'll note that both options are to address a symptom, and not the actual root of the problem. Even if the European girl manages to untwist things, it's only going to knot itself back up until that problem is solved.
Personally, I'm fine with spending time on enchantment as that would give a decent amount of practice with the skill in general(or we find a workaround), and the time spent can be used to continue chipping away at Oriko's issues socially. Which has to be done anyways, given that she's got two weeks or so to change as a person or that's that.
The European girl's powers would help alleviate Oriko's pain without needing Sabrina around to maintain the grief ring, but it's not going to be a permanent cure.
Personally, I'm fine with spending time on enchantment as that would give a decent amount of practice with the skill in general(or we find a workaround), and the time spent can be used to continue chipping away at Oriko's issues socially. Which has to be done anyways, given that she's got two weeks or so to change as a person or that's that.
The European girl's powers would help alleviate Oriko's pain without needing Sabrina around to maintain the grief ring, but it's not going to be a permanent cure.
Again, Mami seems to disagree.
Yeah, no, enchantment is following a sensible plan with reasonable expectations of results. It's direct, it's got reasons we think it'll work, and it's achievable without a high chance of backfiring. It's not a longshot, but that doesn't make it stalling.
Then there isn't- from your point of view. I'm quite happy with my plan.
Yeah, that didn't work out in Sendai. We need to stop assuming that we can bargain our way to victory without holding some of the cards- like her being desperate enough to come here, perhaps.
I do not want to be blackmailed into moving to Europe to get Oriko healed. I don't think you're being objective about this.
Fundamentally, "Let's fly to Europe and disregard all our problems with the expectations of a quick fix" is unworkable as a plan. Especially given the target is known to be coming to us soon and we have a plausible and easier alternative of enchantment.
...We've kind of been doing that. Or rather, they were. It's a stopgap measure at best.
Or do you mean the epiphany thing? That's a work in progress.
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
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I would prefer we stay because both options may/may not work(various reasons), we have been meaning to practice Enchanting for sometime anyway, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY I feel giving 6+ hours for Feathers to do what it wants (freeroam) is a very bad idea.
Lovnag
Clumsy little penguin
- Location
- Antarctica
I mean, not in terms of meguca powers.
Socially. It seems her own method ("be there for her") doesn't work efficiently enough.
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