Hey, guys, here's a though; Why do we have to Grief Rend a witch to take control of it? Can't we just reach out and say "I'm now controlling this grief, so it should stop moving"? It doesn't matter if the Witch is super powerful, we OWN it the moment it gets within our range. The Grief Rend is just us deconstructing it. We've already won.
 
Hey, guys, here's a though; Why do we have to Grief Rend a witch to take control of it? Can't we just reach out and say "I'm now controlling this grief, so it should stop moving"? It doesn't matter if the Witch is super powerful, we OWN it the moment it gets within our range. The Grief Rend is just us deconstructing it. We've already won.
Noooonononononono
We've tried that.
Buk.
 
Hey, guys, here's a though; Why do we have to Grief Rend a witch to take control of it? Can't we just reach out and say "I'm now controlling this grief, so it should stop moving"? It doesn't matter if the Witch is super powerful, we OWN it the moment it gets within our range. The Grief Rend is just us deconstructing it. We've already won.
Because having a malevolent entity that feasts on human souls and suffering active (even if shackled to our will) isn't as reliable as having the said entity disabled and inert? Also, last time we tried to take over a chicken things didn't go well.
 
Hey, guys, here's a though; Why do we have to Grief Rend a witch to take control of it? Can't we just reach out and say "I'm now controlling this grief, so it should stop moving"? It doesn't matter if the Witch is super powerful, we OWN it the moment it gets within our range. The Grief Rend is just us deconstructing it. We've already won.
There's resistance. The Witch's grief is the Witch's grief, despite our Wish.
 
Hey, guys, here's a though; Why do we have to Grief Rend a witch to take control of it? Can't we just reach out and say "I'm now controlling this grief, so it should stop moving"? It doesn't matter if the Witch is super powerful, we OWN it the moment it gets within our range. The Grief Rend is just us deconstructing it. We've already won.

Noooonononononono
We've tried that.
Buk.
Yeah, that did not turn out well. I consider it a bit of a zelda reference actually. We tried to bully a chicken and it turned around and proceeded to kick our (mental) ass.
 
There's resistance. The Witch's grief is the Witch's grief, despite our Wish.
Well, no, what I meant was different than the chicken episode (Which is now a noodle incident...). That was walking up to a hostile restaurant and not expecting to get poisoned. I'm just asking "Why do we have to take it apart brick by brick to claim the building?"

Basically, I'm asking why us taking control away from the witch requires us to move it around first. I just want to reach for that extra little bit of laziness in witch fights, where the barrier just collapses into a seed right after we walk into it.
 
Well, no, what I meant was different than the chicken episode (Which is now a noodle incident...). That was walking up to a hostile restaurant and not expecting to get poisoned. I'm just asking "Why do we have to take it apart brick by brick to claim the building?"

Basically, I'm asking why us taking control away from the witch requires us to move it around first. I just want to reach for that extra little bit of laziness in witch fights, where the barrier just collapses into a seed right after we walk into it.
Because it's controlling that grief. We've tried to wrest control of grief from a witch without destroying it before, and it ended in a grief spike and made Mami and Homura sad.
 
Because it's controlling that grief. We've tried to wrest control of grief from a witch without destroying it before, and it ended in a grief spike and made Mami and Homura sad.
I thought that that was just us poking the pile of shattered glass that was the soul of that proto-witch with our squishy and vulnerable brain meats.
Maximum laziness is not achieved. :c
 
You stare aimlessly at the elaborate fractal edges of the Barrier entrance as you mentally debate the pros and cons of doing some experiments here and now, working through a quick outline to try and determine the difference between time inside and outside a Barrier and an extensive dissection of a Familiar and...

"Yeah, let's go," you say, shaking your head to clear away the gathered wool. You'll have enough time later, you figure. You can always find another Witch, even, it's not like Mitakihara doesn't have enough of them. And you think you know what the Barrier's structure is, so you can try that too - later.

Weeeeell, you have a little time, right now.

"Um," you say, as Mami and Homura line up behind you, ready to enter the Barrier. "Actually, one thing?"

"What is it, Sabrina?" Mami asks.

"I'd like to try something with a Familiar," you say, turning around to face your two friends. "Since, you know, they're made of Grief, and I control Grief, so I figure there might be something there?"

Mami smiles at you. "That sounds like it might be interesting."

Homura tilts her head very slightly to the side, and nods slowly. "It might," she allows, a hint of interest entering her voice.

"So, yeah," you say, smiling at their agreement. "And, well, after I'm done with that... you know, if there's anything you ever wanted to try, but couldn't, maybe we could try it now?" You wave a hand at yourself. "I'm here, so cost, well," you smirk depreciatingly, "-and there's three of us to watch each other's backs if we need to. So... I'm thinking, if there's anything that was too big, too impractical..." You let your smile widen into a full grin.

Mami's eyes brighten a little, her back straightening. "That's a great idea, Sabrina," she says, giving you a warm, delighted smile.

Homura nods again.

"OK then!" you say, and turn back to the glowing slit in reality. You suck in a deep breath and step forward.

The second thing that hits you like a wet slap to the face is the overpoweringly... earthy smell, rotting meat and dung and something sickeningly sulphurous, like a million rotting eggs. The first is the repulsive, nauseating sensation of a Witch's Grief, all around you.

"Ugh," you comment, looking around at the landscape. Rickety old wood decking, crusted with a gummy, dried layer of disturbingly organic looking gunk, creaks under your booted feet.

Mami's nose is wrinkled in a genteel displeasure, and even Homura looks faintly unhappy with the smell, looking around the surroundings of the Barrier with an tiny scowl on her face.

"Buk."

You look in the other direction, to find what looks like a perfectly normal chicken peering at you. Perfectly normal, apart from the fact that it comes up to your waist. It's standing near a low wall, one made of the same rickety wood as the floor.

"Buk," the Familiar announces decisively, turning away to peck at the wall behind it.

"Umm, Sabrina?" Mami asks.

"Right, right," you say. It seems like the Familiars of this Witch aren't hostile - then again, most aren't, until you attack. "Watch my back?"

"Of course," Mami says. Homura just bobs her head in quick acknowledgement, a heavy pistol appearing in her hand with a sharp click. Mami, not to be outdone, removes her beret and waves it over the floor in front of her, muskets sliding out to thump against the floor, balancing on their muzzles in stark defiance of gravity.

Marbles drift out of your bag, twirling into concentric, spinning orbits around you - a defensive perimeter of your own, just in case. You start forward, trotting towards the chicken Familiar with your arms outstretched.

"Um... here, chicken chicken chicken?" you say, feeling more than a tad ridiculous. You reach out with your senses, examining the Familiar closely. It contains...

You frown to yourself.

There's something that might be a Witch's core, albeit one so minute, so fractional that it's nearly imperceptible. It'd... be fair to say that this is a nascent Witch, which, well, it is. It feels... incomplete, incredibly so, something essential to it missing.

"Sabrina?" Mami calls, a hint of concern in her voice. You'd been standing still, staring at the Familiar which is in turn still pecking away at the wall, sharp beak tearing out splinters of wood from the wall.

"Yeah, one last thing!" you say. You take a deep breath and reach out with metaphorical fingers, steeling yourself to try and grab that core. You pause for a moment- and slam your will down. Mine.

Pain.

Pain, raw and jagged, rips into your mind in a flood of white-hot agony, pounding upon you in a tremendous, sledgehammer blow. Your back arches, your breath driven from your lungs in a single, harsh scream. The searing attention of something vast upon you.

Distant screams.

You're on your knees.

You utter failure.

Did you really think so highly of yourself?

Do you hear that?

That's Mami, screaming your name. Shaking you.

You reduced her to this.

She would have been better dead than stuck to your side.

You break everything you touch. Everyone you touch.

You bend them to your will because you know better.

Put her in a gilded cage, where she'll be safe.

Because you want to protect her.

These are not your thoughts.

You snarl, calling your powers to yourself.

And you scream with what little breath is in your lungs, a thin, thready sound.

Grief from your Gem.

It pours out, a syrupy, rippling torrent that floods into the air and instantly crystallizes into razor shards you spin around you and the two human forms near you in a tight, protective barrier.

Your breath, coming in harsh gasps loud in the echoing, dead silence.

A familiar, solid form, clutching at you with desperate strength.

"Sabrina? Sabrina, please, talk to me!" Mami's voice, shaking.

"I-I'm here," you gasp.

"Sabrina!" her grip on you momentarily becomes a bonecrushing hug, warm arms holding you close to her in a shaking grip.

Homura pushes a Grief Seed into your hand. "Here," she says in her quiet voice, a humming undercurrent of worried tension singing under her calm facade.

[] Write-in

=====​

Ouch.
Actually, on further reflection...
You utter failure.

Did you really think so highly of yourself?
...
You break everything you touch. Everyone you touch.

You bend them to your will because you know better.

Put her in a gilded cage, where she'll be safe.

Because you want to protect her.
[PARALLELS TO HOMURA INTENSIFY]
 
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Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[x]Grief platform for the three of us.
[x]Ask Homura to drop timestop. Grief rend it as the attacks hit, just to go for ludicrous overkill and in case it lashes out.
[X] Ask Homura and Mami if you can keep the seed.
[x]Stay alert. Go check on Sayaka. Ask her how she's feeling. Make a grief couch if she's still out of it.
-[x]Once she feels better, ask her what the last thing she remembers is.
-[x]If she doesn't know, gently let her know that a Witch kissed her. Oriko warned us in time, and we killed it.
[x]Her parents are asleep. Is that normal and does she want us to drop her off back at her house?
No. of votes: 3
Ugolino, MrLZRS, EtchedSteel

[x] Hero of good choices
No. of votes: 1
'Lement

[X] Muramasa
No. of votes: 1
Agent Whiskers

[x]Ask Homura and Mami if they heard a voice when they entered the barrier.
[x] Put a little more distance between the three of you and the witch. Just in case. A little extra time to react to things couldn't hurt.
[x] Ask Homura to drop timestop. Grief rend it as the attacks hit, just to go for ludicrous overkill and in case it lashes out.
[x] Grief scan again after the barrier dispels. If no new developments, offer cleansing.
[x] Ask Homura and Mami if you can keep the seed.
[x] Go check on Sayaka.
-[x] Actually, was she really the only one that was witch kissed?
[x] Make sure she's okay. Try and wake her up if she's still out of it.
-[x] Tell Sayaka she was witch kissed (prompt for Mami or Homura to explain if she doesn't know what that is.). Ask Sayaka what was the last thing she remembers.
[x] Offer to take Sayaka home.
-[x] If she accepts, once you're there ask if her if it's normal for her parents to turn in this early.
--[x] Or ask her after the offer if she declines.
No. of votes: 5
o3o, Onmur, chocolote12, Kai Merah, Muramasa
 
[x]Ask Homura and Mami if they heard a voice when they entered the barrier.
[x] Put a little more distance between the three of you and the witch. Just in case. A little extra time to react to things couldn't hurt.
-[x] Be ready with floating Grief platform for everyone to stand on - the barrier was over a girder in an unfinished building and we might not reappear back on solid ground, after all.
[x] Ask Homura to drop timestop. Grief rend it as the attacks hit, just to go for ludicrous overkill and in case it lashes out.
[x] Grief scan again after the barrier dispels. If no new developments, offer cleansing.
[x] Ask Homura and Mami if you can keep the seed.
[x] Go check on Sayaka.
-[x] Actually, was she really the only one that was witch kissed?
[x] Make sure she's okay. Try and wake her up if she's still out of it.
-[x] Tell Sayaka she was witch kissed (prompt for Mami or Homura to explain if she doesn't know what that is.). Ask Sayaka what was the last thing she remembers.
[x] Offer to take Sayaka home.
-[x] If she accepts, once you're there ask if her if it's normal for her parents to turn in this early.
--[x] Or ask her after the offer if she declines.

Just o3o + redline
 
[x]Ask Homura and Mami if they heard a voice when they entered the barrier.
[] Put a little more distance between the three of you and the witch. Just in case. A little extra time to react to things couldn't hurt.
-[] Be ready with floating Grief platform for everyone to stand on - the barrier was over a girder in an unfinished building and we might not reappear back on solid ground, after all.
[] Ask Homura to drop timestop. Grief rend it as the attacks hit, just to go for ludicrous overkill and in case it lashes out.
[] Grief scan again after the barrier dispels. If no new developments, offer cleansing.
[] Ask Homura and Mami if you can keep the seed.
[] Go check on Sayaka.
-[] Actually, was she really the only one that was witch kissed?
[] Make sure she's okay. Try and wake her up if she's still out of it.
-[] Tell Sayaka she was witch kissed (prompt for Mami or Homura to explain if she doesn't know what that is.). Ask Sayaka what was the last thing she remembers.
[] Offer to take Sayaka home.
-[] If she accepts, once you're there ask if her if it's normal for her parents to turn in this early.
--[] Or ask her after the offer if she declines.

Just o3o + redline
You forget that all magical girls are magical ninjas who can jump in midair, except for us, because we are a Witch Adolescent Female Magic Specialist with the ability to just straight-up fly. We'll be fine.
 
Let's see, 5-ish hours. Probably fastest I have dropped a quest since picking it up seriously.
(Writing this up on mobile, expect typos)

Long story short: I was not ready to jump back on this "crazy train"..

Now I remember the other reason I dropped this quest temporarily: the discussion just makes me feel more and more that we can't win:
- The occasional shitstorms (thankfully, this one is being handled more directly now)
- The long wall of text arguments repeating the same things over and over about seemingly minor details
- The fact that there seems to be very little direction in our discussions despite the hints that we need direction in our plans and general forward thinking to have any shot of winning this quest
- The increasingly frequent "guilt tripping" of our actions in this quest (this one is personally exacerbated by RL depression issues)
- How often we point out the magnitude of the problems we face with barely any idea about how to start tackling them is making me feel like they are insurmountable (this one isn't an issue in and of itself, but rather, tickles the aforementioned depression stuff)

Generally speaking, the main thread has become something that is a "toxic" environment to me personally (and I am sure some of those points apply to many others too).
I am going to be honest with you guys, and also possibly uncomfortay open with you too. My RL depression issues were getting worse, and the factors I listed above getting seemingly worse was not helping. This was a large reason why I had to drop the quest temporarily. I thought that after seeing the psychiatrist and getting a medication adjustment, and some time away, and I would be able to pick it up again. Well, I am doing better, but, this thread is still just going to hamper my recovery, instead of improving. Sorry guys. :(

Also, frankness time:
@Firnagzen and the thread: you have a problem. Much of what made this "thread" toxic may have been personal, but I think much of it is also a real issue, and is indeed making it "toxic" for others.
I know this isn't Firn's fault, but that doesn't negate the fact that it is seriously imparing my enjoyment if this quest, and I think that of many others too.
I'm sorry to rub this in your face, especially after Firn himself has expressed similar thoughts in the matter, but I feel that it needed to be said.


I will say that I won't drop it entirely; I will be following story only. I'll try the main thread again later, this time in a month or so.
Also, I am glad to been able to witness "Plan Sabrina plushie" and "The successor to Toucans: Rhinoceroses!", those did genuinely make me laugh. Not enough so to offset everything above, but still, I am glad to have laughed with it, and I don't regret those experiences.

And ad I said earlier, I do not regret my participation in this quest. I still think it has been a net positive for me if you count from when I first participated.

I wish you the best guys.
And Firn, despite these issues, you are writing something great here!

EDIT: Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, my depression has been getting better over these past few weeks, so that is good.
 
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[X] o3o

...magical girls have never been truly threatened by a fall. Terminal velocity isn't a threat to a meguca, it seems. We'll be fine.
 
A couple things @techsy730 and I'm sorry to hear about your struggle with the quest.

- The occasional shitstorms (thankfully, this one is being handled more directly now)

Agreed. And things do seem to have calmed down a bit.

- The long wall of text arguments repeating the same things over and over about seemingly minor details

This is an aspect of questing in general and not specifically a flaw of PMAS. People who are enthusiastic, and passionate about something they like are going to want to talk about it. Even the seemingly minor details that others are less enthusiastic about. This is in a way, how they enjoy the quest.

- The fact that there seems to be very little direction in our discussions despite the hints that we need direction in our plans and general forward thinking to have any shot of winning this quest

In the long term we have plans for dewitching former magical girls, coming up with alternative, superior methods to cleanse soul gems, and slowly but surely gathering potential allies for Walpurgis and onwards. On the short term we're trying to prevent any known potentials from contracting, keeping an eye out for new magical girls in spite of that, addressing the Kyousuke love triangle, trying to repair Mami's relationships with Kyouko and Masami respectively, trying to mend bridges with Oriko and... just about everyone else, maintaining a tenuous truce between the Sendai Group and the University Group, and the less we talk about Mami's limpeting issues, the better.

If you see this as having no direction... well, that's probably because there are a ton of issues to tackle (which means scattered discussion) and not a lot of time to address any of it.

Also it's rather difficult to make plans when we're not completely sure just who exactly is our real enemy to begin with.

- The increasingly frequent "guilt tripping" of our actions in this quest (this one is personally exacerbated by RL depression issues)

If you mean the frequent and consistent deconstructing of Sabrina's handling of matters in Sendai and her conduct towards Mami and her friends in general...

I absolutely and whole heartedly agree.

I mean, it was an interesting, if disturbing view point to take for awhile, all things considered but it has gotten to the point that we're now constantly second guessing Sabrina's actions. Are we being too controlling? Are we patronizing? Are we stepping on 'x's agency? Won't this make the dependency and limpeting worse?

Something has gone horribly, horribly wrong here.

- How often we point out the magnitude of the problems we face with barely any idea about how to start tackling them is making me feel like they are insurmountable (this one isn't an issue in and of itself, but rather, tickles the aforementioned depression stuff)

This... may have been intentional actually.
 
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