A defeated witch core might be very similar to a cleared grief seed. Both are quiescent entities which have had all off their grief stripped away. The primary difference is that the grief seed has a framework (similar to a soul gem) erected around it. Perhaps if we heal a girl directly from the core without allowing it to form a grief seed first, then the body would form around that core and the end result would be a girl who has her soul inside her body rather than within a soul gem.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
I'd be rather happy if that turns out to be the case: Meguca get their shot at being magical girls, then if it turns out they can't hack it they can be turned back into normal girls and have a normal life again. It even has the upside that the associated trauma of coming back to life won't spiral them because they'll just be a normal human.
Firn has said before that Homura doesn't have the ability to revert a Witch, which I'm taking as evidence that you'd need a specialist magical healer to pull it off.
- Location
- spinning
Though, on poking clear seed with telepathy, I'm tossing out some hypotheses off the top of my head there:
Hypothesis A: Witch reactivates. Pokes us with bit of sadness (not much despair unlike our previous experiences but it is a witch).
Hypothesis B: No Reply, as if trying to telepathy disconnected girl.
Hypothesis C: The mind, now no longer overcome by grief, can be coaxed back to sanity from insane loneliness.
Hypothesis D: Kyubey replies: "That is my cash cow. Stop poking it and hand it over, please."
Also, I'd take that as evidence as healing is the wrong way to go about it - and that Homura can't reverse time for "one particular witch". But I haven't seen the statement actually.
Hypothesis A: Witch reactivates. Pokes us with bit of sadness (not much despair unlike our previous experiences but it is a witch).
Hypothesis B: No Reply, as if trying to telepathy disconnected girl.
Hypothesis C: The mind, now no longer overcome by grief, can be coaxed back to sanity from insane loneliness.
Hypothesis D: Kyubey replies: "That is my cash cow. Stop poking it and hand it over, please."
They'd still be witches, I suspect they'd be like grief nut'd normal humans or berserking Kazumi.
Also, I'd take that as evidence as healing is the wrong way to go about it - and that Homura can't reverse time for "one particular witch". But I haven't seen the statement actually.
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
I can't remember the exact wording myself.
E: How about I change that to: evidence that if that healing magic is the way to go, you would need a specialist healer to pull it off.
A different way to interpret it is: The general skill set of an experienced meguca is insufficient to perform de-witching.
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Muramasa
Best Girl
It doesn't change the fact that it's an assholish thing to do.
You don't borrow something with the intent of tampering and likely breaking it.
You just don't do it.
New bandwagon is impatient and misguided.
Gadjo
Doka
That seems like a lloooonnnnnggggg shot, boone. I don't think we can just heal a core into a body. That's a soul your talking about there. I don't think we can just heal biomass out of it. Not to mention, the soul is likely still witched, meaning they'd be insane with despair and self loathing, and that's in the insanely unlikely event that it works at all. I would vote against trying that. Best case scenario it just doesn't work. Worst case? Some crazy shit going down that never should have happened.
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
I disagree with the reasons that you (and some others) have for thinking that it will break. I do not think it will break, so I'm not voting for it with the intention of breaking it. Under the theory of grief seeds I'm working under, the seed she gets back should be completely identical to the seed she gave us. I have seen no hard evidence that points towards an emptied and re-filled seed being any different from an unchanged seed.
E: (Note that when I say hard evidence I mean conclusive evidence, that you would not expect to find on both sides of an argument.)
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Muramasa
Best Girl
You'd still be giving Mami back a potentially unstable seed. I don't care even if you're right. It's still a jerk thing to do.
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
I suppose that is your prerogative.
Gadjo
Doka
Don't we know that the seeds that have been cleared are changed? Don't they unload grief from then on out? We would be giving back a tampered product if we did that.
I rather think this is about the grief. If you fully heal a girl's body and then connect it back into the core of the witch, but you don't do anything about the grief, then it's just going to witch out again as soon as you're done.
It's fine as long as you inform the owner about the potential risk. Which we will be doing.
Those are all problems that are also present for healing the girls whose souls are stuck inside clear seeds. My point is that a witch core which has been stripped of grief is in basically the same situation, except without the structure of the seed. If we are capable of healing the one, then we should also be capable of healing the other. We're not there yet, so I'm not suggesting that we go out and try this right away, I was just speculating on what might happen if we were capable of doing it.
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
We don't know that, no. Hildegard did it only once we'd taken the grief out to make wings (E: leaving it perhaps 3/5ths - 4/5ths full), there have been no other instances of it happening. There have been no instances of it happening with full seeds.
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Your vote does not do this.
I'm pretty sure we tried that.
M: "Okay, what exactly are you doing to it and why?"
S: "I'm trying to turn it back.... into a magical girl. SHIT, forget I said anything. Why did I say any part of that sentence out loud. Why am I still talking? shit shit shit shit shit"
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Muramasa
Best Girl
No it is not fine. You don't give Mami a potentially live grenade and then inform her of the risks. What kind of logic is that?
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
Actually if it is a live grenade we'll know. We'll be able to feel if it is quiescent or not. If it's quiescent, live grenade. If not, normal seed. No potentially going on here.
E: Well that, and I would actually trust her with a literal live grenade. The exploding kind.
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Clear seeds are better than normal grief seeds in every way that we have been able to detect thus far:
1. They have more capacity to cleanse grief.
2. They are less likely to hatch.
3. The souls inside are quiescent, so they are less likely to cause other problems.
The only known danger is that a normal seed would suck out the grief from a clear seed. Which is the fault of the normal seed for being hungry and dangerous. Normal seeds are "normal" because they are more common, not because they're safer.
The vote asks to borrow seeds for experimentation. The danger is implied. But just to make it absolutely clear:
[x]Morning routine.
[x]Wake up calls for all of your friends. Including Sayaka.
-[x]Mention to Sayaka that we might try and finish off Kyosuke's healing during the day. Does she want us to hold off until everyone can go as a group again?
[x]Call Ono. Ask how she's doing, if she's used the seed, and where she wants to meet up today. Bring up telepathy.
-[x]Like this.
[x]Walk with Mami and friends to school.
-[x] Ask Mami if you can borrow two seeds to do some experiments on. You'll bring them back at lunch.
--[x] There is a chance that the experiments could damage a seed; we'll replace it if that happens.
[x]Go visit warehouse-kun.
-[x] How are the Sendai groups doing?
-[x]Pick up science where we left off.
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My preferred experiments need a soul gem that isn't ours. Can someone magic up a vote that borrows one?
Uhhhhh. They kind of need their soul gems....
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
Could you run by me how that would work exactly? It's not like we can walk off with the thing after all.
E: I guess if we're doing that test it would be done at lunchtime? Are people okay with that? Test involves touching together two soul gems with different amounts of grief to see if there are significant differences between a clear seed and a soul gem. A positive result might mean we can get away without having to revert seeds into gems. Does anyone have any significant objections?
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- Location
- East of the Sun and West of the Moon
Omegastar
fear the {CENSORED}.
that is bad and you should feel bad.
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
You make it sound so melodramatic. It's clinking two people's soul gems together to see what happens. When you say SCIENCE ON SOULS it brings to mind Frankenstein laughing and lightning and pitchfork mobs chasing monsters through the woods.