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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Ugolino said:
Step B: Since they'll need to talk anyway,
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Will they? What does Sayaka specifically have to offer in a conversation about magic? Madoka's there just as much if it's a conversation about her friends' experiences with magic or them having kept a secret from her. Also, if I were Hitomi I'd zero in on the actual magical girls to help me get my head around the universe suddenly not making sense anymore.

[x] SynchronizedWritersBlock

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Otherwise you get Kyouske lashing out at her and Sayaka promising him a miracle.
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So why is this a bad outcome? The end result here should be a magic reveal ahead of schedule and Kyousuke healed. Not the most controlled circumstances but not the worst way to go about it.
 
Actually, took the line back out. It didn't flow well at all or add much of anything to the existing one.

[x]Change the subject.
[x]Telepathy with everyone but Sayaka. There's more to it. It isn't fair to Hitomi or Sayaka to keep her out of the loop, and you think it might be making things worse between them
[x] It's becoming impossible for us to interact normally while magic is still a secret. I don't like that.
[x]Telepathically ask Homura if she thinks it's a bad idea or just unnecessary?
[x]Visit Kyosuke. Try and see how he's doing, and nudge Sayaka to talk to him if she doesn't.
[x]Try to get back before 5 unless something comes up.
 
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Eh, I'm going to chime in now that I've caught up again (darn you Alerts) by saying that I don't really see the Magi Talk and the Debt Talk needing to be in quick succession. Maybe it seems like stalling, but it's really for the best; explaining Magic, and the peculiarities (and pitfalls) of the system is going to be a LOT to take in on its own, meaning it might take a while for us to do. It's also a group activity, involving the whole gang, and I think most of us believe this. Doing that and then after taking Hitomi aside to explain raspberries to her might be a bit dissonant.

However, if we're going to bundle anything together (or close to one another), I'd say that the Sayaka-Kyousuke talk session and explaining to Hitomi about Sayaka's feelings (debt-wise) might be better things to pair up. After we've given Sayaka the social!advice we need to, if we really want to, we could have (as an example) Sayaka (and possibly Madoka, if we want) with Kyousuke, and say that we need to talk to Hitomi about something. If we want it to be completely just-us-and-Hitomi, Homura and Mami can go get drinks for everyone, or something (possibly with Madoka, if we want Sayaka and Kyousuke to have time all to themselves).

From there, events proceed as they will. How's this sound for a future plan?

Also:
[X] Null Vote

Unsure which to choose between Ugo and SWB.
 
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Stalling doesn't actually add anything and there's no real reason not to get these things said when we have a chance to. It doesn't need to be a group activity even if it could be, and doing it without making it a group therapy session lets us move things along to the other problems.

That alternative pairing runs into a)bringing in Kyosuke himself before we've resolved things between Sayaka and Hitomi, b)not resolving this mess with the debt before it can interfere with the handling of the Kyosuke problem.

SWB's vote is the same vote with a random omission of a line that actually explains our reasoning to the others properly, adds a bit more unnecessary detail for the Homura question, and is slightly more verbose.
 
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Just going to point out that pacing is a thing. That piling on issues, if it has to be done, needs to be done tactfully, else we're just repeating the same actions that brought about Mumi-limpet.
 
It's a vote that deliberately nixes the idea that we should discuss Sayaka's personal issues in the same conversation as we reveal magic to Hitomi. That's enough to differentiate it. We've argued that particular subject to death, so time to put it to a vote.
 
Mumi limpet happened as an inevitable result of the lichbomb's implications. This situation is different, not least because Hitomi's stable and likely to take these points fairly well.

It's a vote that takes out a useful line that does damage control for the last vote's use of the potential argument and that provides reasoning that'd make sense for Homura and Madoka in particular, never mind the potential applications later. Other than that, the changes made really don't add much of anything.
 
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...If we hadn't of lichbombed Mami when we did Sendai would have caused more headaches than it already did, somehow. Fighting them without the gem pull surprise would have been troublesome, to say the least.
 
Ugolino said:
Mumi limpet happened as an inevitable result of the lichbomb's implications. This situation is different, not least because Hitomi's stable and likely to take these points fairly well.
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She might be able to take the idea that three of her friends' friends happen to be liches fairly well, as well as that magic is both a wonderful thing and a wretched ordeal, but then that's not actually something that's personally affecting her -- the closest it comes to this is that we want to heal her and Kyousuke (a plus, and not anything inherently problematic because we are such bullshit), and that Madoka and Sayaka are close to both her and us (and therefore are impacted by this knowledge a bit themselves). We could possibly aside to Hitomi after the explanation that if she could help Madoka and Sayaka feel a bit better, that'd be nice (I still remember how they were after that downer party we had) . . . but, I don't think the debt issue is one that has a place in that; it's an issue exclusive to Sayaka, and while no less important there's a time and a place for everything.

Ugolino said:
That alternative pairing runs into a)bringing in Kyosuke himself before we've resolved things between Sayaka and Hitomi, b)not resolving this mess with the debt before it can interfere with the handling of the Kyosuke problem.
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A) Bringing in Kyousuke isn't something that's really got much of a relationship with Sayaka and her debt woes either, beyond maybe her feeling indebted to us for going to these lengths for him. However, on that note . . .
B) This is a problem that we're not going to be able to solve bibbity-bobbity-boo, either; it's something we're probably going to have to work at. Us letting Hitomi know that the problem exists is one step to it, but from there we'll both (Hitomi and Sabrina alike) will probably have to brainstorm some way of either giving Sayaka an outlet* for this issue or else finding a way to dissolve it entirely. If we have to resolve this before we heal Kyousuke up, then that's a delay on the healing that we'll likely have to go through.

* (A part of me is now tempted to suggest Sayaka as a meguca therapist -- "You were expecting a cute girl? Too bad, it was just your therapist, Glasses Sayaka! Please take a seat on the couch.")
 
The point is that they're already talking about their issues, making it a natural place to bring up the debt. It's a wasted opportunity not to do it, and there's no good reason not to other than a certain kneejerk phobia of actually getting things done.

A. What to tell Kyosuke is a bit of a mess in its own right, and we should have them talk it out before bringing him in, if we do. The issue there is bringing him in before we've resolved the other problems, not the connectedness.
B. Getting everything out there as fast as possible is the best way to minimize headaches down the road...and resolving their issues a bit faster by bringing them up in association minimizes the delay on healing.
 
[x] SynchronizedWritersBlock

Even though I do want to ask about green-haired people.
 
Ugolino said:
The point is that they're already talking about their issues, making it a natural place to bring up the debt. It's a wasted opportunity not to do it, and there's no good reason not to other than a certain kneejerk phobia of actually getting things done.
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I respectfully disagree. While it may seem like ripping the band-aid off all at once, at least that's what it seems to be if I'm reading you right, to me it feels more like going to a session to talk about alcoholism and why you shouldn't fall prey to the tender trap, and then afterwards taking someone aside and saying 'by the way, Biff's got a gambling problem, we should probably help him with that' -- they're both problems, and both should be talked about . . . but it just doesn't really seem like it fits to do so, y'know?

It may be nice to bundle things up together to get more done, but really -- we have no shortage of time to get it done in. It's not like Sayaka's going to immediately straightaway do something drastic if we don't, especially now that she knows the price is as steep as it is.

Ugolino said:
A. What to tell Kyosuke is a bit of a mess in its own right, and we should have them talk it out before bringing him in, if we do. The issue there is bringing him in before we've resolved the other problems, not the connectedness.
B. Getting everything out there as fast as possible is the best way to minimize headaches down the road...and resolving their issues a bit faster by bringing them up in association minimizes the delay on healing.
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Actually, I don't really see much of an issue in this. In fact, now that I think about it, I think we're getting a bit muddled-up here (myself included), so what I'm going to do is instead make a hard right turn:

I think an ideal sequence of events for future plans would be . . .

1) We talk to Hitomi about magic. Let her know the ins and outs, make sure she doesn't contract (potential or otherwise).
- 1a) Possibly let Hitomi know about Madoka and Sayaka being a bit down about our situation for one reason and another. Ask advice and aid?
2) Later, give Sayaka some time with Kyousuke to bolster his spirits, if he needs spirit-bolstering. If he doesn't, no worries! Routine visit.
- 2a) Prior to visit, try to help Sayaka with her tactfulness via sage advice.
- 2b) While she's doing this, possibly take Hitomi aside to inform her about Sayaka's debt issue.
3) Later still, possibly after we work to mend the Sayaka's debt issue, or at least put together a good plan for it (even if it's not yet solved, we can at least brainstorm solutions with Hitomi and Madoka, given how long they've known Sayaka), we can get on with the healing.
- 3a) Priority on making sure that Sayaka's not feeling indebted to US, as that's really the biggest hangup on healing, and we really shouldn't leave Hitomi waiting on her miracle after we've explained that it's possible. We can work on the more long-term issue of Sayaka-and-Hitomi later.
- 3b) Possibly give Sayaka an outlet for her issue? Something she can do that lets her feel like she's making a contribution.
-- 3b.1) Jokingly, Sayaka as meguca therapist or barkeep (in the 'listens to your problems' sense). Someone to talk to is invaluable, even if your soul doesn't fetch a good price at a pawn shop.

Does this all sound sound?
 
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Possible additional bird to kill with these stones: help Madoka feel useful and reduce our potential for misstepping by promoting her to Chief Sayatomi Relationship Mender?
 
Baroque said:
I respectfully disagree. While it may seem like ripping the band-aid off all at once, at least that's what it seems to be if I'm reading you right, to me it feels more like going to a session to talk about alcoholism and why you shouldn't fall prey to the tender trap, and then afterwards taking someone aside and saying 'by the way, Biff's got a gambling problem, we should probably help him with that' -- they're both problems, and both should be talked about . . . but it just doesn't really seem like it fits to do so, y'know?

It may be nice to bundle things up together to get more done, but really -- we have no shortage of time to get it done in. It's not like Sayaka's going to immediately straightaway do something drastic if we don't, especially now that she knows the price is as steep as it is.

Actually, I don't really see much of an issue in this. In fact, now that I think about it, I think we're getting a bit muddled-up here (myself included), so what I'm going to do is instead make a hard right turn:

I think an ideal sequence of events for future plans would be . . .

1) We talk to Hitomi about magic. Let her know the ins and outs, make sure she doesn't contract (potential or otherwise).
- 1a) Possibly let Hitomi know about Madoka and Sayaka being a bit down about our situation for one reason and another. Ask advice and aid?
2) Later, give Sayaka some time with Kyousuke to bolster his spirits, if he needs spirit-bolstering. If he doesn't, no worries! Routine visit.
- 2a) Prior to visit, try to help Sayaka with her tactfulness via sage advice.
- 2b) While she's doing this, possibly take Hitomi aside to inform her about Sayaka's debt issue.
3) Later still, possibly after we work to mend the Sayaka's debt issue, or at least put together a good plan for it (even if it's not yet solved, we can at least brainstorm solutions with Hitomi and Madoka, given how long they've known Sayaka), we can get on with the healing.
- 3a) Priority on making sure that Sayaka's not feeling indebted to US, as that's really the biggest hangup on healing, and we really shouldn't leave Hitomi waiting on her miracle after we've explained that it's possible. We can work on the more long-term issue of Sayaka-and-Hitomi later.
- 3b) Possibly give Sayaka an outlet for her issue? Something she can do that lets her feel like she's making a contribution.
-- 3b.1) Jokingly, Sayaka as meguca therapist or barkeep (in the 'listens to your problems' sense). Someone to talk to is invaluable, even if your soul doesn't fetch a good price at a pawn shop.

Does this all sound sound?
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Yes as one way to handle it, not sure 2 and 2a) are needed, 2b) needs to be merged with 1a), 3. makes sense
 
Ugolino said:
Yes as one way to handle it, not sure 2 and 2a) are needed, 2b) needs to be merged with 1a), 3. makes sense
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Erm . . . the point of having 2b as 2b is that I personally feel merging it with 1a, while timewise streamlined, is topic-wise/conversation-wise a bit of a klunky way to handle it -- particularly when we can handle it as 2b with no real negative impact, given that 3 is potentially a ways off depending on how we want to handle it in relation to 2b.

We've all the time in the world to get this taken care of, and while some bits of it are a bit more time-sensitive than others (3 in relation to 1, for example), as a whole we can afford to space it out.
 
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Baroque said:
Erm . . . the point of having 2b as 2b is that I personally feel merging it with 1a, while timewise streamlined, is topic-wise/conversation-wise a bit of a klunky way to handle it -- particularly when we can handle it as 2b with no real negative impact, given that 3 is potentially a ways off depending on how we want to handle it in relation to 2b.

We've all the time in the world to get this taken care of, and while some bits of it are a bit more time-sensitive than others (3 in relation to 1, for example), as a whole we can afford to space it out.
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We don't. No need to stall it, it doesn't add anything, and we can smooth over any awkwardness. The sooner we defuse this situation, the better for all concerned.

We'll live with a bit of clunkiness ,the version as written just seems strange and odd conversationally.
 
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