Hitomi also needs to be told about magic so we don't have to, for example, lie to her whenever we meet her partway to where she's walking on foot, or if she asks how Sabrina got up to the roof, or any number of other things that her social circle is or will be hiding if she isn't let in on the secret.

Telling Hitomi about magic has never been just for Sayaka's benefit.

Various things are various. They by definition don't follow from each other.

...And people die when they are killed! :V

Bringing up magic means they can talk about things they couldn't before. They'd be talking anyway after we bring up magic. That means we can use the opportunity, while they're already talking, to bring up things that they also need to talk about. There is no need whatsoever to wait for later to bring up all the other issues they need to talk about when the chance to do would be practically gift-wrapped for us.
 
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So we're agreed that both things being things to talk about doesn't make them naturally related.
If you hate the idea of talking about magic and Sayaka's issues in the same conversation, keep in mind that the current vote doesn't lock us into such a conversation. It just pursues permission to tell Hitomi about magic at some point.
 
The reason we want to inform Hitomi about magic is that Hitomi causes Sayaka to witch in canon, and might cause her to contract here. If she knows more about Sayaka and what's going through her head she won't break her by saying something that she didn't intend to be so hurtful, like she did in the show.

Yes? I completely agree. But as I said, no one but us has that chain of logic in their head right now. Either explain it properly or don't bother.

Ugolino's plan is to tell her those things in the conversation about magic. If you take this vote now, you are supporting that plan because it is explicitly setup for that plan.
 
We're singling out Sayaka because saying "you have problems" to Sayaka's face is a bit of a social fumble.

What does that have to do with magic, though? They both have a crush on the same guy and Sayaka feels she owes Hitomi for giving her a place to stay after the fire. How are we suppose to explain to the others that keeping magic a secret from her is making things worse between them?
 
If you hate the idea of talking about magic and Sayaka's issues in the same conversation, keep in mind that the current vote doesn't lock us into such a conversation. It just pursues permission to tell Hitomi about magic at some point.

It does so by excluding Sayaka from the planning and by telling the others that we're telling Hitomi because of Sayaka's issues. That's what the current vote does.
 
Not doing so would be shooting ourselves in the foot for no real reason other than "we're getting too much done again, time to stall".

Yes? I completely agree. But as I said, no one but us has that chain of logic in their head right now. Either explain it properly or don't bother.

Ugolino's plan is to tell her those things in the conversation about magic. If you take this vote now, you are supporting that plan because it is explicitly setup for that plan.
Why would we say any of that to the others? What is the point of "explaining it properly" (whatever that's supposed to mean) rather than "this situation is bad for Hitomi and Sayaka, let's change it"?

It does so by excluding Sayaka from the planning and by telling the others that we're telling Hitomi because of Sayaka's issues. That's what the current vote does.
Third line. You must have missed it.

Telling them that is perfectly valid when this problem is about the two of them and everyone recognizes that. I really don't see what you're trying to get at.

What does that have to do with magic, though? They both have a crush on the same guy and Sayaka feels she owes Hitomi for giving her a place to stay after the fire. How are we suppose to explain to the others that keeping magic a secret from her is making things worse between them?
The point is they need to talk about a lot of things, and magic is just one of them.
 
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I'm mostly fine with Ugolino's vote, I guess. It's just that line in particular kind of befuddles me.

Not doing so would be shooting ourselves in the foot for no real reason other than "we're getting too much done again, time to stall".


Why would we say any of that to the others? What is the point of "explaining it properly" (whatever that's supposed to mean) rather than "this situation is bad for Hitomi and Sayaka, let's change it"?

It's just that the current issue between them is that Sayaka feels indebted to Hitomi for helping her out. Not because she's keeping magic a secret from her.
 
What? So you're saying that having them both in the same conversation is cool, but that we could also do other things that would work? I mean, this is true, but I get the feeling it's not what you meant.
I did feel that way, but Agent Whiskers makes a good point, so I don't anymore.
What is the point of "explaining it properly" (whatever that's supposed to mean) rather than "this situation is bad for Hitomi and Sayaka, let's change it"?
The line you feel doesn't do the job on its own says that this situation is bad for Hitomi, Sayaka, Madoka, Mami, Sabrina, and Homura. Singling out Hitomi and Sayaka as a separate explanation needs justification.
 
"Why? What does the situation have to do with Sayaka?"

You have to explain these things or what we say doesn't make sense.
...You did see how Madoka noticed Sayaka was miserable because of the situation between her and Hitomi, right?

I did feel that way, but Agent Whiskers makes a good point, so I don't anymore.

The line you feel doesn't do the job on its own says that this situation is bad for Hitomi, Sayaka, Madoka, Mami, Sabrina, and Homura. Singling out Hitomi and Sayaka as a separate explanation needs justification.
Clarifying our reasoning for pushing for the reveal, which works better than buzzing around Homura asking "Are you sureeeeeeeeeeee you don't want to?". The follow up line is something Sayaka can hear without problems.
 
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What does that have to do with MAGIC, specifically?
The magic reveal is part of this situation and we need to get it out of the way first for them to have a proper conversation without it hanging over their heads. Not letting her in on that would just be bizarre if we're doing the rest.

Also, I'm practically certain we're going in circles.

That's your perspective twisting others' concerns, I think.
Stalling is delaying, dragging it out, or not doing something for no reason other than its own sake. This qualifies.
 
The magic reveal is part of this situation and we need to get it out of the way first for them to have a proper conversation without it hanging over their heads. Not letting her in on that would just be bizarre if we're doing the rest.
So naturally the magic reveal must be no more than five minutes prior to the rest of their issues being aired.
Yes. Yes, it does. What it doesn't do is just use that as our sole attempt to convince her.
If she just thinks it's unnecessary she doesn't really need convincing.
 
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The magic reveal is part of this situation and we need to get it out of the way first for them to have a proper conversation without it hanging over their heads. Not letting her in on that would just be bizarre if we're doing the rest.

Also, I'm practically certain we're going in circles.

You didn't answer my question. Our conversation Sabrina is having right now is about revealing magic. If we bring up getting Hitomi and Sayaka to talk about Sayaka's personal issues, we have to relate it to revealing magic, or it doesn't make any fucking sense to do so.
 
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What does that have to do with MAGIC, specifically?
So let me get this straight: if we were to add a line to explain our train of thought to the others, you'd be cool with the vote?
[] The fact that Hitomi doesn't know about magic means that she might ignorantly do or say something that could hurt Sayaka more than she intended. We need to bring her into the loop for Sayaka's sake.
How's that look? Because the criticism that I keep picking out is "no one else is following our train of thought we need to explain it."
 
You didn't answer my question. Our conversation Sabrina is having right now is about revealing magic. If we bring up getting Hitomi and Sayaka to talk about Sayaka's personal issues, we have to relate it to revealing magic, or it doesn't any fucking sense to do so.
Why? The only connection that needs to be there for them to talk about it is that it's something else they need to talk about and haven't been. If you want something else, Sayaka's house fire was caused by a magical girl. There, done, there's your connection.

Step A: Tell Hitomi about magic.
Step B: Since they'll need to talk anyway, encourage them to talk about the rest of it while they're there.
Step C: Profit. Go brew tea.
 
Why? The only connection that needs to be there for them to talk about it is that it's something else they need to talk about and haven't been. If you want something else, Sayaka's house fire was caused by a magical girl. There, done, there's your connection.

Step A: Tell Hitomi about magic.
Step B: Since they'll need to talk anyway, encourage them to talk about the rest of it while they're there.
Step C: Profit. Go brew tea.

Ok. Let's try again.

Our conversation that we are having right now, with Madoka, Sayaka, Sabrina, Mami, and Homura as participants. Is about revealing magic to Hitomi. IF we want to continue that conversation (excluding Sayaka) by pointing out that we also want Hitomi and Sayaka to talk together about Sayaka's personal issues, we need to relate it to revealing magic to Hitomi, because one item does not necessarily follow from the other item for anyone not privy to our thoughts.


So let me get this straight: if we were to add a line to explain our train of thought to the others, you'd be cool with the vote?
[] The fact that Hitomi doesn't know about magic means that she might ignorantly do or say something that could hurt Sayaka more than she intended. We need to bring her into the loop for Sayaka's sake.
How's that look? Because the criticism that I keep picking out is "no one else is following our train of thought we need to explain it."

You know, like this.
 
No, we really don't. We just need to a)bring it up afterwards while we're having a word with Hitomi, b)nudge Sayaka to do it while they're talking and after the magic reveal.
 
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