...Backfire horribly, maybe, but it will get the desired response because Oriko cares quite a lot about Kirika's wellbeing. As for Sabrina's character...We'll live, the real issue is how Mami sees it.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Sabrina's character is SV. Thats why we are having multipage discussion about it. Please don't use third person in regards to Sabrina, you are a part of her..
Muramasa
Best Girl
She'd wonder what the hell we're doing. And I'd agree with her.
Speak for yourself. I'm invested in the character. If a terrible vote like that got through, I'd be pretty damn upset about it.
I'm fairly invested in the character but I really, really don't want to see a Cold Tea or to ever have to deal with Oriko being crazy again if we can help it. If we can make "Oriko burning down houses" a closed book without resorting to drastic measures, great. If not, we take the next best option.
Character-wise, "white knight" is probably slightly less than completely accurate thanks to Mami being fairly unaware of the actual circumstances. This is a character that almost wished to end everything by summoning Cthulhu when she realized the circumstances after all.
We have people we know about and who we're intent on keeping alive at all costs and look up to to some extent, everyone else who we want to help as people trapped in the system, and then there's Oriko who we really don't properly understand even with the benefit of metaknowledge and who we really don't want to hurt the previous two categories. We're going out of our way to save her life/find out why, but there is a limit to that.
As it is, Oriko is probably our biggest obstacle to a Good End, except Kyubey. That needs to change one way or another, the less coercion and the lower the danger the better.
Last edited:
Muramasa
Best Girl
Last edited:
Muramasa
Best Girl
huh... I can actually agree with most of this. Still hate the hostage idea with every fiber of my being though. We need better 'next, best options'.
The whole point of the argument earlier, though I was rather easily redirected from it, was that we could just stash their bodies somewhere and then carry their soul gems around with us, yet people argued that the soul gems would turn black from trying to generate a new body or from the mental effects of sensory deprivation/lack of body. There's no true canon to support the idea that separating the soul gem from the body costs significant grief which was the original issue.
People stated that generating a body takes tremendous grief use, and even if I concede that it doesn't solve the issue; because the soul gem won't try to generate a new body on its own. There is no evidence in canon that a soul gem separated from a body will attempt to generate its own body.
From episodes 5-6 we know that when Sayaka's gem was separated from her body she had no cognition. Her mind was utterly shut down, no sensory deprivation or out of body issues. The gem did not start growing flesh.
From the PSP game we see a soul gem separated from a body for four days without it trying to generate a body. In fact we see zombie-esque Sayaka because her soul gem was separated from the body long enough for the body to start decomposing before the soul gem was reunited with the body at which point it reanimates it, the soul gem didn't start growing a body even though it was separated long enough for the body to start decomposing.
The idea that soul gems try to generate a new body as far as I can tell is pure fanon with no founding in canon.
We can keep them in effectively stasis imprisonment until whatever Oriko worried about has come to pass and then she won't have whatever motivation she has for trying to screw us over and we can release her then. Imprisonment is a common moral answer to not wanting to execute people. They won't be aware of time passing so they aren't going to plot against us during it and we can just release them later at our convenience. No need to make threats against their lives that we might or might not follow through on.
People stated that generating a body takes tremendous grief use, and even if I concede that it doesn't solve the issue; because the soul gem won't try to generate a new body on its own. There is no evidence in canon that a soul gem separated from a body will attempt to generate its own body.
From episodes 5-6 we know that when Sayaka's gem was separated from her body she had no cognition. Her mind was utterly shut down, no sensory deprivation or out of body issues. The gem did not start growing flesh.
From the PSP game we see a soul gem separated from a body for four days without it trying to generate a body. In fact we see zombie-esque Sayaka because her soul gem was separated from the body long enough for the body to start decomposing before the soul gem was reunited with the body at which point it reanimates it, the soul gem didn't start growing a body even though it was separated long enough for the body to start decomposing.
The idea that soul gems try to generate a new body as far as I can tell is pure fanon with no founding in canon.
We can keep them in effectively stasis imprisonment until whatever Oriko worried about has come to pass and then she won't have whatever motivation she has for trying to screw us over and we can release her then. Imprisonment is a common moral answer to not wanting to execute people. They won't be aware of time passing so they aren't going to plot against us during it and we can just release them later at our convenience. No need to make threats against their lives that we might or might not follow through on.
Really, lets have the discussion of whether to execute Oriko AFTER she said her piece and we have made our arguments. At this point in time, we have little information to go on to decide what to do, other than canon information which may or may not pertain to this quest at all.
What I told him to take to PMs was the whole energy thing. This, on the other hand, I deem to be an on-topic discussion.
Update in following post.
Direct Intervention pt. 34
You hiss out a breath, mind whirling as you try to figure out what to do.
You don't want Oriko to die. Not yet, anyway.
You grab and pull the enormous, malignant mass of Grief free of Oriko's gem, leaving it sparkling again. The Grief comes free in ropy, syrup-like streamers that drift aimlessly in the air, before slowly dissipating into the more familiar billowing vapour of your Grief clouds. A lot of it.
Pythia
Homura's tentative smile morphs into a puzzled frown, but you hold up a hand to stall her objections for a moment. She holds her peace for now.
"Mami!" you call.
"Sabrina? What's happening?" she replies.
"It's over. We're OK, and Oriko and Kirika are down for the count," you inform her.
"Oh, thank goodness," Mami says in relief. You can sense her stopping to lean against something for a moment.
"No need to push yourself, Mami," you tell her. "We'll be with you as soon as we can, OK?"
"Alright," Mami says. Nevertheless, your senses tell you that she's pushed herself off, and is continuing to make her way over.
You look at Homura. "Nicely done, Homura. I want answers from Oriko, first, and Mami isn't going to deal well with all of this," you say, gesturing at the nearly beheaded corpse of Oriko. There's a pool of blood, gleaming crimson under the starlight, slowly spreading out from it, and her neck as well as most of her fac- you look away, hastily. "Could you... use your timestop?"
Homura's lips tighten. "We'll talk." She sets her MG3 down beside her, and grabs the edge of the shield with her free hand. She tries turning it, but her hands simply slip across the surface, shield stubbornly refusing to turn. Her frown deepens, and she grips it more firmly, before giving it a sharp yank.
With a crunching noise, the shield turns, gears grating over each other. Instead of the expected discontinuity of timestop, though, shattered cogwheels rain out of the mechanism, pinging over the ground as Homura stares in consternation. She cranks it back into the neutral position again.
Her hands are shaking.
Homura moves her hand slowly across her shield, the purple light of her magic trailing after it, and the entire shield becomes limned with a dim glow, St. Elmo's fire cast in purple. Hesitantly, Homura turns it aga-
-in. Homura's got her arm on your shoulder, and the world is in the grey hues of the timestop. You breathe out a sigh of relief, before you catch sight of Homura's rather displeased expression.
"We went through all this trouble to kill Oriko," Homura states, frowning heavily at you. "And you want to bring her back?"
[] Write-in
Homura has certain misgivings.
You don't want Oriko to die. Not yet, anyway.
You grab and pull the enormous, malignant mass of Grief free of Oriko's gem, leaving it sparkling again. The Grief comes free in ropy, syrup-like streamers that drift aimlessly in the air, before slowly dissipating into the more familiar billowing vapour of your Grief clouds. A lot of it.
Pythia
Homura's tentative smile morphs into a puzzled frown, but you hold up a hand to stall her objections for a moment. She holds her peace for now.
"Mami!" you call.
"Sabrina? What's happening?" she replies.
"It's over. We're OK, and Oriko and Kirika are down for the count," you inform her.
"Oh, thank goodness," Mami says in relief. You can sense her stopping to lean against something for a moment.
"No need to push yourself, Mami," you tell her. "We'll be with you as soon as we can, OK?"
"Alright," Mami says. Nevertheless, your senses tell you that she's pushed herself off, and is continuing to make her way over.
You look at Homura. "Nicely done, Homura. I want answers from Oriko, first, and Mami isn't going to deal well with all of this," you say, gesturing at the nearly beheaded corpse of Oriko. There's a pool of blood, gleaming crimson under the starlight, slowly spreading out from it, and her neck as well as most of her fac- you look away, hastily. "Could you... use your timestop?"
Homura's lips tighten. "We'll talk." She sets her MG3 down beside her, and grabs the edge of the shield with her free hand. She tries turning it, but her hands simply slip across the surface, shield stubbornly refusing to turn. Her frown deepens, and she grips it more firmly, before giving it a sharp yank.
With a crunching noise, the shield turns, gears grating over each other. Instead of the expected discontinuity of timestop, though, shattered cogwheels rain out of the mechanism, pinging over the ground as Homura stares in consternation. She cranks it back into the neutral position again.
Her hands are shaking.
Homura moves her hand slowly across her shield, the purple light of her magic trailing after it, and the entire shield becomes limned with a dim glow, St. Elmo's fire cast in purple. Hesitantly, Homura turns it aga-
-in. Homura's got her arm on your shoulder, and the world is in the grey hues of the timestop. You breathe out a sigh of relief, before you catch sight of Homura's rather displeased expression.
"We went through all this trouble to kill Oriko," Homura states, frowning heavily at you. "And you want to bring her back?"
[] Write-in
=====
Homura has certain misgivings.
[x]To stop Oriko.
[x]Homura, if she wanted to kill Madoka...she'd have done it. If she just wanted Sayaka's family dead...she wouldn't just have used a fire or left a note justifying it. Maybe we're going to have to kill her, and Kirika as well. I don't want to do that. But we need to find out why she did what she did. If there's another threat, wouldn't it be better to know about it?
[x]Please trust me. We should try to talk her out of it. Yes, an Oriko killed another timeline's Madoka after Kirika died. Yes, this Oriko and this Kirika might not be able to be saved. If they're still dangerous to...the people we know, then...I'll help you with it.
[x]Homura, if she wanted to kill Madoka...she'd have done it. If she just wanted Sayaka's family dead...she wouldn't just have used a fire or left a note justifying it. Maybe we're going to have to kill her, and Kirika as well. I don't want to do that. But we need to find out why she did what she did. If there's another threat, wouldn't it be better to know about it?
[x]Please trust me. We should try to talk her out of it. Yes, an Oriko killed another timeline's Madoka after Kirika died. Yes, this Oriko and this Kirika might not be able to be saved. If they're still dangerous to...the people we know, then...I'll help you with it.
Last edited:
[x] Ugolino
Yeah, but Homura's thoughts are essentially 'godsdammit she's mostly dead anyway. Let her die.'
Also, you were more than a little bit of a buzzkill, 'cuz prior to this point, she was already mentally celebrating Oriko's death.
NO FUN ALLOWED.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
[x]To stop Oriko.
[x]Homura, if she wanted to kill Madoka...she'd have done it. If she just wanted Sayaka's family dead...she wouldn't just have used a fire or left a note justifying it. Maybe we're going to have to kill her, and Kirika as well. I don't want to do that. But we need to find out why she did what she did. If there's another threat, wouldn't it be better to know about it?
[x]Please trust me. We should try to talk her out of it. Yes, an Oriko killed another timeline's Madoka after Kirika died. Yes, this Oriko and this Kirika might not be able to be saved. If they're still dangerous to...the people we know, then...I'll help you with it.
[x]Homura, if she wanted to kill Madoka...she'd have done it. If she just wanted Sayaka's family dead...she wouldn't just have used a fire or left a note justifying it. Maybe we're going to have to kill her, and Kirika as well. I don't want to do that. But we need to find out why she did what she did. If there's another threat, wouldn't it be better to know about it?
[x]Please trust me. We should try to talk her out of it. Yes, an Oriko killed another timeline's Madoka after Kirika died. Yes, this Oriko and this Kirika might not be able to be saved. If they're still dangerous to...the people we know, then...I'll help you with it.
The Bird
tEM IS GUD...RITER!
- Location
- In that den of villains and scum, OKLAHOMA
[x]To stop Oriko.
[x]Homura, if she wanted to kill Madoka...she'd have done it. If she just wanted Sayaka's family dead...she wouldn't just have used a fire or left a note justifying it. Maybe we're going to have to kill her, and Kirika as well. I don't want to do that. But we need to find out why she did what she did. If there's another threat, wouldn't it be better to know about it?
[x]Please trust me. We should try to talk her out of it. Yes, an Oriko killed another timeline's Madoka after Kirika died. Yes, this Oriko and this Kirika might not be able to be saved. If they're still dangerous to...the people we know, then...I'll help you with it.
Damnit Ugo, you and Mura make all the GOOD write ins! Sure, it prevents stupidity, but c'mon, stupidity is FUN(In the Dwarf Fortress sense)!
[F] Ey, no back talk!
[f] Forcivily witch Homu
[FFFFFFF] Nom Oriko's soul jim
[W] Become SUPAH WALPURGISNACT, HERO OF GRIEF AND SCIENCE
[T] Travel back in time and KILL LINCOLN
[x]Homura, if she wanted to kill Madoka...she'd have done it. If she just wanted Sayaka's family dead...she wouldn't just have used a fire or left a note justifying it. Maybe we're going to have to kill her, and Kirika as well. I don't want to do that. But we need to find out why she did what she did. If there's another threat, wouldn't it be better to know about it?
[x]Please trust me. We should try to talk her out of it. Yes, an Oriko killed another timeline's Madoka after Kirika died. Yes, this Oriko and this Kirika might not be able to be saved. If they're still dangerous to...the people we know, then...I'll help you with it.
Damnit Ugo, you and Mura make all the GOOD write ins! Sure, it prevents stupidity, but c'mon, stupidity is FUN(In the Dwarf Fortress sense)!
[F] Ey, no back talk!
[f] Forcivily witch Homu
[FFFFFFF] Nom Oriko's soul jim
[W] Become SUPAH WALPURGISNACT, HERO OF GRIEF AND SCIENCE
[T] Travel back in time and KILL LINCOLN
While we heal, we could ask her why she never did what she did in the Oriko timeline again- hanging out with Madoka and Sayaka seemed to work wonders for keeping them safe and uncontracted until Oriko gatecrashed the school. Trauma, maybe?
OrikoWitch is Pythia? That's fitting.
I really, really want to know what SabrinaWitch is called now. It won't help us, it won't really hurt us, and this is neither the time nor place, but I'm curious.
OrikoWitch is Pythia? That's fitting.
I really, really want to know what SabrinaWitch is called now. It won't help us, it won't really hurt us, and this is neither the time nor place, but I'm curious.
Last edited:
The Bird
tEM IS GUD...RITER!
- Location
- In that den of villains and scum, OKLAHOMA
Plotting a course of SCIENCE now for that purpose.
...We just need to look at the griefspot that powers Sabrina's own magic. No SCIENCE needed.