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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Mura is right. We know a seed fully emptied then filled halfway can have its grief "stolen" by other seeds. We have not tested what happens when a seed has been fully emptied then refilled back to its original state.
Probably something to test.

It may very well be that Hildegarde isn't actually any closer to be "de-witched", just that the grief "suckiness" of a seed its proportional to its current level. That we have been chasing a false lead, a false hope, to "de-witching", and this much simpler explanation is right.

Not sure, but certainly something to add to the science list (empty -> normal act normal or still have grief taken by non formerly emptied seeds? And also grief seed halfway but never formerly fully empty, how does it act?)

EDIT: Turns out I was wrong. See SWB's post below.
 
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CornyBones said:
We can't ask Kyoko about her feelings. Feelings are for friends, and we aren't friends.
Also a seed is only going to make the problem worse. She doesn't like charity, and giving out seeds like candy only emphasis both how much of a non issue it is for us, and how weak she is. It takes things to places we don't want to go.
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That is the primary reason that I want to give Kyouko and Yuma a clear grief seed (Hildegard or Aurora), even though we're not completely done testing them yet. We've done enough testing to be reasonably sure that they can be used safely and we are at the point that we need other people to test them. Mami and Homura might be slightly better choices since we see them more often, and can respond to a situation more quickly, but Kyouko and Yuma are also very close and we can check on them almost as frequently if we decide on that path. If there is a report of a witch or some other unexpected problem, we are only a telepathic call and a timestop hop away.

Note that this approach still challenges Kyouko's attitude. It shows her that there can be situations in life where all parties involved gain without anyone being stupid or manipulative.

And if Kyouko declines the offer (due to fear of danger), we can still give her a normal grief seed (<unknown name>).

You stop filling Aurora's Seed when it's half full. Holding it by its point, you tap it to Irene's Grief Seed.

Irene tears Grief from Aurora, a substantial portion vacuumed from one Grief Seed to the other in an instant, and you hastily jerk them apart. You bring your powers to bear, and confiscate the 'stolen' Grief from Irene, returning it to its unused state.
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With us we currently have one empty clear seed (Hildegard), one clear seed with some grief in it (Aurora), and one more dark seed from Homura (<unknown>). Also, Oriko is borrowing one dark seed (Gwen). We had borrowed a dark seed (Irene) from Mami at one time, but we gave it back last night.

Edit: Homura gave us a grief seed just before the fight with the Chicken witch. We haven't investigated what its name is yet.
Edit2: and we gave Irene back to Mami last night.
 
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Cannongerbil said:
I'm personally in favour of dropping all pretenses to the contrary and just going balls in with the altruism angle. I don't see a need to dress our altruism as not altruism just to soothe Kyouko's ego, especially since she will accept it anyway, and any excuses that we come up with are going to be paper thin, by necessity. Plus, you know, there's the whole thing about convincing Kyouko that we geuinely just want to help other megucas.


...Is there a particular reason why you care about which seed is being given, as long as it isn't Hildegarde?
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I suppose that works too. Any specific vote ideas in mind?
 
techsy730 said:
It may very well be that Hildegarde isn't actually any closer to be "de-witched", just that the grief "suckiness" of a seed its proportional to its current level. That we have been chasing a false lead, a false hope, to "de-witching", and this much simpler explanation is right.
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We asked Homura. She said that Grief does not transfer between Seeds normally.

Clearing a Seed clearly alters it somehow.
 
Don't remember if I voted.
[X] Ugolino.
Looks good. I agree with gerbil's point about perhaps just admitting that we're giving it to her for free- since our excuse is totally transparent, but it's not a deal breaker.
 
Krecart said:
We asked Homura. She said that Grief does not transfer between Seeds normally.

Clearing a Seed clearly alters it somehow.
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The actual quote is:
"Hmm... does Grief transfer between Grief Seeds when you touch them together?" you ask curiously. "It doesn't, right?"

"It doesn't," Mami tells you.
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Homura was there too and she didn't disagree, so I assume that her experiences also match this. But neither of them have grief senses like we do. If there is a small transfer of grief between grief seeds that are stored together, they wouldn't necessarily have noticed, so it's still an experiment that we need to try.
 
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Ugolino said:
I suppose that works too. Any specific vote ideas in mind?
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We could just drop the "bearer of bad news" bit and include a line that says something like "If she presses, restate what we said during our first meeting about wanting to help all Megucas." to the vote. That would handle things.
 
Krecart said:
We asked Homura. She said that Grief does not transfer between Seeds normally.

Clearing a Seed clearly alters it somehow.
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Yea, but a grief seed only half full so it is "smokey" is also not really natural, as they start off full enough to be mostly solid black, and no MG before us had any way of removing grief from it, only add to it.

Maybe this is just a natural property of grief seeds ("grief grip strength" proportional to current level) that nobody really has been able to notice before due to the level that the normally spawn. Maybe the difference of level between about-to-hatch seeds and their "spawn level" seeds isn't large enough to have a noticeable grief transfer to "ordinary" MG senses.

I don't know, which is why a testing further might be a good idea.
 
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boonerunner said:
The actual quote is:

Homura was there too and she didn't disagree, so I assume that her experiences also match this. But neither of them have grief senses like we do. If there is a small transfer of grief between grief seeds that are stored together, they wouldn't necessarily have noticed, so it's still an experiment that we need to try.
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Seems unlikely. With our grief sense I think we would have noticed any transfer. Next time we need to do science for a different reason we could include that just to put the suspicion to rest, but it's not much of a priority.
 
It is very clear on page 6 of the story only thread, that we fully refilled Hildegard, and then some grief was accidentally sucked out of it not a few updates later. I can't really qquote it properly from my phone, but:

The only place for you to put the Grief to is back in Hildegard's Seed -you suppose you could make a giant Grief monolith and leave it here, but that's probably a bad idea- so you dig the Seed out of your pocket and hold it up, moving a few spheres out of the way so that the light catches the Seed.

Yep. Still a mostly clear, spherical shape with a pinprick dot of darkness in the centre. You shrug, and begin pouring the Grief back in - it goes in much more readily than it came out, the Seed vacuuming it in almost as fast as you can disincorporate your spheres.

Finally, the Grief is gone, and the Grief Seed back to looking like, well, a Grief Seed. You pocket it, and dismiss your puella magi costume in a blaze of light, fastidiously smoothing down your skirt beforewandering out to the main road.
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
It is very clear on page 6 of the story only thread, that we fully refilled Hildegard, and then some grief was accidentally sucked out of it not a few updates later. I can't really qquote it properly from my phone, but:
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Well what do you know. Seems like I remembered wrong.

Still, I would like to test the cases I mentioned above, but what you just posted does seem to suggest we are onto something, and thus bumping those items down in priority quite a bit.
 
Firnagzen said:
Yep. Still a mostly clear, spherical shape with a pinprick dot of darkness in the centre. You shrug, and begin pouring the Grief back in - it goes in much more readily than it came out, the Seed vacuuming it in almost as fast as you can disincorporate your spheres.

Finally, the Grief is gone, and the Grief Seed back to looking like, well, a Grief Seed. You pocket it, and dismiss your puella magi costume in a blaze of light, fastidiously smoothing down your skirt before wandering out to the main road.
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Quote of the actual section.
 
Muramasa said:
Half full. Not standard capacity.
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Looking back at it, I see this for the two primary votes:
[x] Carefully refill Aurora to an 'unused' state (nominal capacity). Pay EXTREME attention to how the grief seed is compressing grief. This is an effect you'll want to duplicate.
[x] Re-check its weight.
[x] Test Aurora by making contact with the other grief seeds, first with the Control Seed, then with Hildegarde.
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-[x] Carefully refill Aurora to an 'unused' state. Pay EXTREME attention to how the grief seed is compressing grief. This is an effect you'll want to duplicate.
-[x] Empty Aurora to half capacity. Have it make contact with Mami's seed. If nothing happens, empty Aurora to one quarter. Make contact again. Check for any kind of transfer between the two seeds.
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And it was the latter vote that won. It also looks like a partial copy of an earlier version that was supposed to start testing contact at nominal capacity, and then re-check at lower percentages.

So there was certainly an intent to test it at nominal capacity, but it seems that got screwed up in the vote.
 
Kinematics said:
Looking back at it, I see this for the two primary votes:


And it was the latter vote that won. It also looks like a partial copy of an earlier version that was supposed to start testing contact at nominal capacity, and then re-check at lower percentages.

So there was certainly an intent to test it at nominal capacity, but it seems that got screwed up in the vote.
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Whoops. Well, I guess add the "full" version of the vote back onto the science list?
 
Don't know if we gave back Irene, but Homura definitely has the chicken Seed.

Firnagzen said:
A rustle of cloth is Homura picking up the Grief Seed, and she holds it out to Mami quietly.

Mami shakes her head. "N-no, you should keep it, Homura," she says.
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Firnagzen said:
"Oh, that reminds me," you say, fumbling in your pocket. You withdraw the Grief Seed that Homura gave you earlier - you used it, technically, but your Soul Gem was clean, so it's technically also unused. You hold it up to Homura. She reaches out for it, before hesitating and stopping. "Keep it," she says softly.
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We do still have the unused one that Mom gave us when we got messed up by the familiar.
 
Well that clears that up.


I still want to at least offer her the chance to assist us in testing how an emptied seed holds up under normal usage conditions. Drain Aurora as a capacity demonstration, give her the full list of odd behaviors, and toss her the regular seed as a backup just in case? After lunch is wrapped up, obviously.

I know there are concerns, but you need to test these things sometime if you're ever going to put them into circulation, and Kyoko's pretty close to ideal, here.
 
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