No, let's not.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
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Well... yes. Thats somewhat awkward, true. It also presumes a huge level of trust that simply may not be there - yet.
Krecart
Not for throwing.
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We're 8 days old and unsure if that's literally true or not.
It doesn't really bother me, personally, but I guess we could start there?
The meta-knowledge issue is more potentially distressing, but I dunno if we're prepared to talk about that.
You're no fun.
'Are you okay' is a very different question, one that's much less open and that is easier to brush off. It also doesn't convey the same level of support. 'Do you want to talk about it' contains the implication that the audience will listen, and if presented in the right context, without judgment or reservation.
I don't really understand the rest. Everyone's right there... yes? Isn't that the whole point?
Gadjo
Doka
Agreed. It feels a little odd to answer "are you okay" with anything other than "yes", since the alternative is admitting out loud that, no, you are not okay. It's different from your line in that it isn't really an invitation to talk.
Also, I think their worry is that with too many people there it might be hard to open up. I don't think it's an issue, but I believe that to be what they're driving at.
Mmm, I think that's part of the reason I wanted to open with Mami originally. I think she'd trust a little more easily.
Our ultimate goal with Madoka and Sayaka should be to inform them of the full truth about wishes, contracting, and witches. The canon lesson of "People are selfish and tend to make wishes for selfish reasons" is also relevant; indeed it is the primary reason that wishes tend to be Faustian bargains. If either of them run into a situation in the future where she still thinks it's a good idea to make a contract, then that's her prerogative. Knowing the problems with the system and making a wish specifically designed to fix them is what made the hopeful ending to canon possible in the first place; it's also what allowed us to make a hopeful wish at the beginning of this Quest.
Obviously, we want to try to prevent things from getting dire enough that meguca wishes start looking like a good idea, but with the imminent threats of Walpurgisnacht plus whatever it is that Oriko saw, there's still a good chance that someone will still decide make a contract, despite the cost.
We also need to take a long, hard look at our own powers and how they affect the meguca system. Our powers can currently allow any meguca to use as much magic as they want without having to worry about turning into a witch, so the costs of becoming a meguca are lower than they were in canon. Probably. But we do need to consider what our limits are in terms of the number of people we can help. And we need to consider the probability that we will die (at some point) and that things will go back to the way they were. We need to either come up with a way to permanently change the system without our presence or to achieve literal immortality so that our presence is itself a permanent change to the system.
Remember that the incubators are not evil in the conventional sense; it's just that their goal is to maximize the reduction of entropy and they are willing to allow humans to suffer if it helps that goal to be achieved. Incubators are alien and indifferent to human suffering, but we can potentially still work with them. Our abilities basically turn grief and magic into renewable resources so our abilities have the potential to transform the fight against entropy; that's probably why Kyuubey is so interested in us and has been so accomadating. Our way is not the way that the incubators are accustomed to working with, but they are pragmatic enough to consider alternative solutions to the problem. One thing we may have to worry about is that our methods have had a pattern of involving lots of exposure and highly visible property damage which Kyuubey has had to cover for. We keep saying that it's his problem, but given that it may hurt our chances of coming to a working relationship with him in the future, maybe we should stop being quite so cavalier about it.
Obviously, we want to try to prevent things from getting dire enough that meguca wishes start looking like a good idea, but with the imminent threats of Walpurgisnacht plus whatever it is that Oriko saw, there's still a good chance that someone will still decide make a contract, despite the cost.
We also need to take a long, hard look at our own powers and how they affect the meguca system. Our powers can currently allow any meguca to use as much magic as they want without having to worry about turning into a witch, so the costs of becoming a meguca are lower than they were in canon. Probably. But we do need to consider what our limits are in terms of the number of people we can help. And we need to consider the probability that we will die (at some point) and that things will go back to the way they were. We need to either come up with a way to permanently change the system without our presence or to achieve literal immortality so that our presence is itself a permanent change to the system.
Remember that the incubators are not evil in the conventional sense; it's just that their goal is to maximize the reduction of entropy and they are willing to allow humans to suffer if it helps that goal to be achieved. Incubators are alien and indifferent to human suffering, but we can potentially still work with them. Our abilities basically turn grief and magic into renewable resources so our abilities have the potential to transform the fight against entropy; that's probably why Kyuubey is so interested in us and has been so accomadating. Our way is not the way that the incubators are accustomed to working with, but they are pragmatic enough to consider alternative solutions to the problem. One thing we may have to worry about is that our methods have had a pattern of involving lots of exposure and highly visible property damage which Kyuubey has had to cover for. We keep saying that it's his problem, but given that it may hurt our chances of coming to a working relationship with him in the future, maybe we should stop being quite so cavalier about it.
Oriko already suspects. This experiment would either show that those fears are unfounded or else allow us work with her to actively prevent that future from coming about, so I'd say that it's still a good idea.
We have lots of secrets, but we don't really have a lot of personal secrets since we just came into existence (probably as the result of a wish) a few days ago, although that fact is (in and of itself) a personal secret, as @Krecart mentioned. It wouldn't be a bad idea to share these facts with the group as an opener to asking if there's anything that they want to talk about.
If trust is the issue, then we should ask Mami first, since Mami more-or-less trusts everyone here.
Interesting commentary...and welcome aboard!
Kyubey has been 'accomodating' because he's gathering information and our responses give him that no matter what we do. Nothing we do will hurt our chances of a relationship if we have results, and nothing will change how much he wants us dead without said results on hand. The lesson of Rebellion is that the Incubators are NOT reasonable; they have a distinct preference for short term, larger payoffs in general as well. The last thing we can do is treat Kyubey as a human being because it isn't and that will get us killed. Treat it as an enemy until we have something to offer and something to gain from the alternative.
We have no need or reason to accommodate the little rat in any way at all.
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Krecart
Not for throwing.
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[X]SynchronizedWritersBlock
As much as I dislike bunnycat, not sure I agree with you on that. The Witch system was better for the incubators. The only thing that seems like a big, short-term payoff is abandoning the planet after Gretchen. That doesn't even count since she basically filled it's quota with (I think) enough energy to break the universe.
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Gadjo
Doka
Does she have the impression that we're to blame for that, though? You'd have to point me to where she said that.
Rebellion. Before that you can argue they're rational as long as they get a payoff, but they're quite clearly willing to throw caution to the winds and break a completely functional if a chance of a higher payoff even seems possible. They can never be completely trusted, or even really worked with.
Gadjo
Doka
I think they're a little more rational than that, but yeah: they're a bunch of backstabbing psychopaths from outer space that harvest the souls of young girls to power their empire. Working with them is risky at best.
They're probably completely rational for power plant workers feeding souls into the furnace.
That doesn't mean they're trustworthy for US.
Krecart
Not for throwing.
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I think that's a tiny bit unfair. Nobody anticipated Homucifer happening. What she did was a complete Outside Context Problem.
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It is more like "my way or the high way" with them, they seem to be unwilling or even unable to operate under conditions not fully under their control. There may be reasons for that ( my headcanon being that they are a hivemind AI set at their work by some precursor race now lost), but this makes any plan based on them TRUSTING us "emotional, therefore mad/inferior" beings rather doomed IMHO.
Gadjo
Doka
Point is they're willing to pursue more energy at the expense of anyone they happen to be working with. They did realize after Homucifer that perhaps giving emotionally damaged teenage girls cosmic power was a poor choice, but by then it's too late to go back on it.
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Everything since Madokami was an OCP. Does not change the fact they broke a working system...
Krecart
Not for throwing.
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There was no reason to believe that what they were doing would break anything.
This is true. They will totally build a better mousetrap over us if they can.
It just seems weird to call them reckless for not considering that they'd accidentally make a goddess who would then proceed to rip apart another goddess/law of physics -that they weren't even sure existed- and break the universe.
Gadjo
Doka
Agreed, reckless isn't the word, greedy is. They will take big risks and do things outside of their normally intelligent MO if they stand to make sufficient gain from it.
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They seemed to understand the law of cycles/madokami well enough- and I , amongst others , do not buy into this " I will never understand humans " spiel of Kyuubey...
That's the thing though. Without foresight there's no way they could have know what they were doing was dangerous. If I remember the whole thing was supposed to be them just trying to prove the law of cycles existed. Any actual containment testing would have happened after they had some idea what they were dealing with.