I'd rather not say anything until we get Mami a proper support network/give her some time to rebuild her world at the very least...Even an indirect mention.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Choo Choo
THE GRIEF TRAIN HAS NO BRAKES
- Location
- Sweden -> California
- Pronouns
- She/her
And if she asks to know? What then?
No. Stable Mami first, then witchbomb.
- Location
- spinning
Well, it is not exactly the last thing we haven't been trusting her with.
Things such as "Homura resets the universe because everyone dies to Walpurgisnatch." or "Nothing here is real." or "I fulfill the wishes of ten-twenty faceless voices." or "I am probably wish construct" or the universe-warpers or other meta-knowledge we have.
Things such as "Homura resets the universe because everyone dies to Walpurgisnatch." or "Nothing here is real." or "I fulfill the wishes of ten-twenty faceless voices." or "I am probably wish construct" or the universe-warpers or other meta-knowledge we have.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Aye. That's entirely right. But we can't exactly tell her now; it's the equivilent of setting off a nuke in your face, as opposed to a few hundred meters off. It's going to suck anyways, but that doesn't mean that doing it at any old time is good.
But I agree that, at some point, we have to allude to it otherwise when it hits Mami she will crumple further.
It has to happen at some point, but yes I am wary of it. It's a coin toss, I suppose, that we'll need to huggle more sobbing/feeling betrayed Mami. But I'm thinking that it's probably worth the gamble.
Actually, very good points. We can remove the witchbomb itself as 'the' secret, because we're still keeping a lot of secrets. The point is to admit to keeping secrets, not to explaining any given one.
- Location
- spinning
On the other hand, instead of just dropping it on her Kinematic's suggestion gives her more agency ( even if this is supremely bad time to have a serious discussion for Mami, even if we turn off some of our senses).
@Kinematics: Hm. I do agree that "we have been keeping other secrets" has lesser impact than "we've been keeping another secret".
Gadjo
Doka
I could live with just referencing that we're keeping something from her, and telling her that we'll tell her later. I just don't like keeping it too long, since it'll feel like more of a betrayal the longer we keep it from her.
That stuff would be easier to trust her with, though (although the time travel should be put off until that's okayed by Homura).
Also is the "nothing here is real" a reference to the whole "thread" thing? Because I've always taken this to be an approximation of her thought process, not a literal thread from another universe controlling her. That'd be kinda dumb.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is actually an incredibly salient comment and I think everyone should keep it in mind whilst discussing the issue of keeping secrets.
- Location
- spinning
@Gadjo: It is reference to the whole "PMMM is an anime" + our metaknowledge of the entire verse thing. By knowing the entire verse from the PoV of viewers, we know it is not real.
However, I do view it as a literal thread from real universe controlling the imaginary one through an interface (but what if this is a recursive story and I'm in a character in an imaginary universe? ). And then 'Lement was Kanna Hijiri
However, I do view it as a literal thread from real universe controlling the imaginary one through an interface (but what if this is a recursive story and I'm in a character in an imaginary universe? ). And then 'Lement was Kanna Hijiri
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I guess 'we're keeping secrets' will help drive home the point that Sabrina is most definitely the perfect friend Mami wishes she was. That'll help.
The witchbomb, though, is not something that we can tell her soon. If she asks us to tell her that one, we'de be flat out denying her? That would hurt the relationship between Mami and Sabrina. Not that it couldn't be spun the right way. Sometimes, one needs to make mistakes, and patching things up with a Mami that readily admits that Sabrina's got problems, is better than just go 'I'm bad, sorry, I'll be better in the future' and go have her accept it without actual 'consequences'.
What I'm saying, is that Mami might need more than an explanation and an apology. There should be a middle point where she's mad, where she acknowledges and accepts our points about all the shit we've pulled, and that's gotta hurt both of us. If she accepts our apologies without first showing feelings of hurt, or betrayal? Then I'm worried.
The witchbomb, though, is not something that we can tell her soon. If she asks us to tell her that one, we'de be flat out denying her? That would hurt the relationship between Mami and Sabrina. Not that it couldn't be spun the right way. Sometimes, one needs to make mistakes, and patching things up with a Mami that readily admits that Sabrina's got problems, is better than just go 'I'm bad, sorry, I'll be better in the future' and go have her accept it without actual 'consequences'.
What I'm saying, is that Mami might need more than an explanation and an apology. There should be a middle point where she's mad, where she acknowledges and accepts our points about all the shit we've pulled, and that's gotta hurt both of us. If she accepts our apologies without first showing feelings of hurt, or betrayal? Then I'm worried.
- Location
- spinning
*Attempts to imagine Mami being mad at Sabrina*
*PMAS-predictor.exe has shut down*
Wow, this is hard.
@Ugolino: let's be honest, they're flat-out secrets. Part of the reason for this is giving Mami agency.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
If we're being honest, we should mention that some part of us doesn't want to tell her.
Gadjo
Doka
I know the witchbomb would be hard to take right now, but it needs to be done soon. She's already been betrayed by Kyubey, and Kyoko's falling out. I don't think she could handle finding out, independent of us, some of the things we've been keeping from her and realizing we never told her. Nor should we keep it from her for a long time and get her thinking "All this time, and you hid that from me? Why can I only attract friends who betray me?"
- Location
- spinning
Sure, but replace "things", and it's the same length.
I agree with Onmur too, though, and that isn't one-word replacement. Not "promise to tell ASAP", part of us is quite reluctant.
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mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, we're basically Mami's world right now. She'll totally take that well even if she gets it
Hmm. Not bad. Let me try my hand...
[] I'm going to be honest with you, because you deserve that. There's things you need to know, but I can't tell you yet, though some of it isn't mine to say. I will tell you, I promise. No lies. Just... not now. You deserve to know it yesterday but I don't know how to say it, and I don't think you should hear it yet. It might not be my place to decide that, but... one thing is for certain: I'm not going anywhere.
or something, if we get to write it out in depth like that.
Except that telling her "there's something we need to tell you once we figure out how" short-circuits that to some extent. Soon is bad unless we meet certain criteria (lots of friends, progress on saving witches, etc etc)
@'Lement Yeah, but then "things" has a less outright negative, deceptive connotation than "secrets".
Well, we're basically Mami's world right now. She'll totally take that well even if she gets it
Hmm. Not bad. Let me try my hand...
[] I'm going to be honest with you, because you deserve that. There's things you need to know, but I can't tell you yet, though some of it isn't mine to say. I will tell you, I promise. No lies. Just... not now. You deserve to know it yesterday but I don't know how to say it, and I don't think you should hear it yet. It might not be my place to decide that, but... one thing is for certain: I'm not going anywhere.
or something, if we get to write it out in depth like that.
"and I don't think you should hear it yet." seems a bit dodgy, even if it's honest plus it's a giveaway if we're still clinging to the hope of hiding our knowledge from Kyubey as long as possible. We've actually been amazingly successful on that front.
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Gadjo
Doka
Hey, I'd take telling her that we've been hiding things from her as a victory; I didn't expect anyone to agree that we needed to address it at all.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
- Location
- the bottom of a coffee cup
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The wonders of compromise and productive discussion!
It's fairly sensible; it's witchbombing her or all-but-witchbombing her that's setting off alarm bells. A healthier relationship with Mami makes perfect sense after all.
~small omake (in this version, only the witchbomb secret is considered)~
"Is this related to why you wanted to stop this war?"
Sabrina nodded. "Yes."
"And... and is it related to why... Akiko...." Mami trailed off.
Sabrina grimaced and sighed. "I don't know. I need to talk to her to find out. But probably."
Mami was silent for several long moments. "How many other people know?" she finally asked.
Sabrina paused to think. "Myself. Homura. Oriko, due to her ability to find out other people's secrets. I doubt Oriko told Kirika, and Kirika would hardly care anyway. Akiko might. Kyouko doesn't. Of the rest, I'd only be guessing, but I doubt any of the rest of Sendai know, nor the University girls. Ishinomaki is hard to say, but it didn't seem too likely with them, either. No clue with Fukushima. At most, probably only a couple people out of all the groups."
"So it's not like I'd be the last one to find out, right?" Mami asked, with a strained smile.
"Is this related to why you wanted to stop this war?"
Sabrina nodded. "Yes."
"And... and is it related to why... Akiko...." Mami trailed off.
Sabrina grimaced and sighed. "I don't know. I need to talk to her to find out. But probably."
Mami was silent for several long moments. "How many other people know?" she finally asked.
Sabrina paused to think. "Myself. Homura. Oriko, due to her ability to find out other people's secrets. I doubt Oriko told Kirika, and Kirika would hardly care anyway. Akiko might. Kyouko doesn't. Of the rest, I'd only be guessing, but I doubt any of the rest of Sendai know, nor the University girls. Ishinomaki is hard to say, but it didn't seem too likely with them, either. No clue with Fukushima. At most, probably only a couple people out of all the groups."
"So it's not like I'd be the last one to find out, right?" Mami asked, with a strained smile.
Needs more traumatized complete breakdown.
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
And also, more tetris.