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Paths of Civilization

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@Academia Nut If we elect the hero as our king, will our government structure change to familial inherited positions?

Edit: I just don't want people to argue about personal interpretations and fall into circular arguments instead of constructive discussion.
 
Citino said:
Guys, do you really imagine snubbing him will go over well?

First of all, it goes against what our system is supposed to stand for. We elect the best, and in this case, he is clearly the best. If anyone can handle a war, or better yet, stop one, it would be this guy. This guy is better than pretty much anyone else that can be elected, and yet people don't want him because they dislike his policy on one issue.

Second, if we snub him, we now have an entire province that starts to dislike the system and becomes radicalized. It won't be just one or two generations before that dies off, it will be an ongoing problem.

Third, not electing him sets bad precedents. First, all of our other heroes became king, but our martial didn't. What happens when we don't get the loyal and honorable warrior next time? He's going to look at his predecessor and realize that it is quite possible he will never become king because a bunch of old men disagrees with him. Worse, narratively, the reason he is not being elected is favoritism. The chiefs are so sure that they are right that they won't even entertain the idea that this guy could be right about something. This is not something I want our people doing, I want them to elect someone who is competent even if they personally dislike it.
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First, not one issue.

Complete tax law, hereditary law and landownership is not one issue.

Second it is not our province, it is a march, because he already declared himself semi independent and thus refused to be coached by the old high chief, as a proper candidate to be high chief Had to for hundreds of years.

So no, I do not see him as a viable candidate.
 
DragonParadox said:
What about his sons and his sons sons, hungry for glory but with not a tenth his brains or wit?
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And how will said son change the law?

Plus, I like how you are already assuming that all of his sons will go mad with power, because how else can it go, right? I mean, it's not like we've had other heroes with children before.
 
VoidZero said:
And throwing out the martial and diplomatic hero just because is also part of meritocracy?

Where did this strange thought of monarchy came from?
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From hereditary land ownership. The two go together. If you can own the land (which of the spirits) why not the state?

Citino said:
And how will said son change the law?

Plus, I like how you are already assuming that all of his sons will go mad with power, because how else can it go, right? I mean, it's not like we've had other heroes with children before.
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So you are assuming his dynasty will just magically not produce any failures....?
 
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[X] Elect Cwriid heir (+1 Stability, Crisis Ends on his terms)
[X] Keep trading with both (Large chance of one of the two declaring war, tiny chance of both declaring war)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
 
Kiba said:
They are in theory elected, but only political dynasties ever have a chance of being elected. Granted, this is because they are fit to rule..

But we do have a nobility class.
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For example, in the Roman Republic the majority of the Senatorial Houses were either those who descend from the Old Priestly Caste of the Roman Kingdom, or were the descendants of men who had been elected Consuls.

So while Senators and Consuls were in theory elected, in practice only these most well off and most well connected houses had the resources to get elected to those positions.

While some new Houses could be created when men who are not of those lineages get elected to Consulship, it was both a rare occurrence, and these men often had extensive backing from the Established Houses first.
 
tenchifew said:
First, not one issue.

Complete tax law, hereditary law and landownership is not one issue.

Second it is not our province, it is a march, because he already declared himself semi independent and thus refused to be coached by the old high chief, as a proper candidate to be high chief Had to for hundreds of years.

So no, I do not see him as a viable candidate.
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He is semi-independent because he is fucking 6 months one-way from our capital, so it's more a matter of simple logistics rather than him outright declaring his own kingdom
 
tenchifew said:
Complete tax law, hereditary law and landownership is not one issue.
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The hereditary law and land ownership are the same thing, and we don't even know where he stands on the tax issues, I believe.
tenchifew said:
Second it is not our province, it is a march, because he already declared himself semi independent and thus refused to be coached by the old high chief, as a proper candidate to be high chief Had to for hundreds of years.
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Uh, no. There was no way for the King to rule it, so acting as he is was literally the only way to run the system. Hell, we were the ones who choose to have him run the province!
tenchifew said:
And these heroes did not make their children their successors.
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Gwygotha?
 
[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)

Going to war here is rather short-sighted. In the long run, even a partial success with this project would give us a tremendous advantage over the other local civs.
 
Citino said:
The hereditary law and land ownership are the same thing, and we don't even know where he stands on the tax issues, I believe.

Uh, no. There was no way for the King to rule it, so acting as he is was literally the only way to run the system. Hell, we were the ones who choose to have him run the province!

Gwygotha?
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We know what he wants about the taxes - completely the old system.

Yes, I forgot, it happened.

Once.
 
Deadly Snark said:
Gwygoytha's children and descendants effectively did become the ruling class of the people for many generations, and I'm rather certain that most of our Chiefs all descend from her in some way at this point.
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This is wrong.

One child.

Never was it mentioned that more than one was king.

This said some, at some times, probably were elected, but there was no dynasty,
 
[X] Elect Cwriid heir (+1 Stability, Crisis Ends on his terms)
[X] Stop trading with the Highlanders (-3 Diplomacy, small chance of the Highlanders declaring war)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
 
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tryrar said:
He is semi-independent because he is fucking 6 months one-way from our capital, so it's more a matter of simple logistics rather than him outright declaring his own kingdom
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Strange, this is not the only rim province, but the only march we have.

He simply used the distance as a legitimation to snub the central government and to do whatever he pleases, with own martial, Econ, diplomacy and so on.
 
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