Paths of Civilization

Academia Nut · Apr 9, 2017

hylas240 said:
If we send a secondary trade mission to the Thunder Horses, what's the minimum peace extension we can get?

Minimum? None. Nomadic groups don't really work that way.

BungieONI said:
Speaking of centuries how many have passed since we started? As an estimate.

Technically speaking the first to second turn incorporated a period of several centuries, and then things have been a bit blurry, but hmmm... probably about five centuries or so since the turns really started going.

bluefur87 said:
does dropping bellow 6 because we are starting diplo missions this turn stop our guys from doing their own trade missions?

No, because it wasn't above 6 yet

Umi-san · Apr 9, 2017

Sivantic said:
It's less dependent on military and more to do with walls. Anyway he is mediocre in Military, which is okay apparently. Don't need to worry as much

Ah yes, I forgot how threatening people with soldiers doesn't require military...? And the IRL definition of mediocre, which isn't "okay."

Massgamer said:
At some point we need to raise our Mysticism considering how far it fell. Doing another megaproject would help but what about also studying forests in general?

The description doesn't say Study Forest will increase mysticism but it probably should.

veekie said:
This does mean next turn should be:
-[Main] Expand Warriors
-[Secondary] Expand Economy

And Sailing Mission or More War Carts, maybe.

Side note: Sailing Mission + Survey Lands pair together as not needing mysticism, imo.

tryrar said:
We don't need to double main it, and we likely could not afford to do so anyways since that'll likely cost 4 econ

Supposedly trade missions only cost diplo. The overseas cost was for the boats.

hylas240 · Apr 9, 2017

Umi-san said:
EA is a dumb choice atm because it decreases stability by 0.5 for, generously, 1.5 centralization. Generously because, again, our hero has mediocre martial and the entire thing is based on using that.

AF is a better choice if ur prepared to lose stability but is still a waste of econ for only +1 stab. If you're worried about centralization *now* do new trails and hope the additional effects are worthwhile. If you're worried about centralization in a non-urgent way vote for something else, do RH as a main next turn, and then do EA w/ a different hero after.

You're acting like our hero is a damn pacifist, or scared of blood. He has medicore martial, which is below average...not poor.

Considering we only have 2 walled settlement, I doubt we'll fail.

Sivantic · Apr 9, 2017

Massgamer said:
At some point we need to raise our Mysticism considering how far it fell. Doing another megaproject would help but what about also studying forests in general?

Study forests gives new tech, not more Mysticism

Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more? ({S}: Potential new discoveries; [M]: -1 Econ, improved odds of success)

BungieONI said:
Speaking of centuries how many have passed since we started? As an estimate.

That's rather unmeasured, each turn is a generation and we are on our...23rd generation

bluefur87 · Apr 9, 2017

Academia Nut said:
No, because it wasn't above 6 yet

Whelp, I want to aim to get it really high then so we can have a positive feedback loop.
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom

The real neat idea here? If stone-pen just starts regularly sending trade missions towards thunder horses, we won't have to worry about them for many many turns.

tryrar · Apr 9, 2017

Umi-san said:
Ah yes, I forgot how threatening people with soldiers doesn't require military...? And the IRL definition of mediocre, which isn't "okay."

The description doesn't say Study Forest will increase mysticism but it probably should.

And Sailing Mission or More War Carts, maybe.

Side note: Sailing Mission + Survey Lands pair together as not needing mysticism, imo.

Supposedly trade missions only cost diplo. The overseas cost was for the boats.

I'm talking about double-maining Expand Warriors. That shit be extensive, yo.

highs2lows · Apr 9, 2017

When your forests are set ablaze and your women and children are carried off to be slaves remember you were warned. When the crows feast upon your brother's entrails will hubris still then be a cowards word? Alas Babylon

hylas240 · Apr 9, 2017

bluefur87 said:
Whelp, I want to aim to get it really high then so we can have a positive feedback loop.
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom

The real neat idea here? If stone-pen just starts regularly sending trade missions towards thunder horses, we won't have to worry about them for many many turns.

Except if we don't secure a peace extension, those trade caravans will be sacked and justify in the TH's eyes their decision to raid us.

pbluekan · Apr 9, 2017

First things first:

I'll be back with an analysis and vote in a bit.

Sivantic · Apr 9, 2017

Umi-san said:
Ah yes, I forgot how threatening people with soldiers doesn't require military...?

Don't nitpick. you know what I mean.

tryrar said:
I'm talking about double-maining Expand Warriors. That shit be expensive, yo.

FTFY

hylas240 said:
Except if we don't secure a peace extension, those trade caravans will be sacked and justify in the TH's eyes their decision to raid us.

And we won't get one unless we actually send a trade mission to them.

VoidZero · Apr 9, 2017

Sivantic said:
That's rather unmeasured, each turn is a generation and we are on our...23rd generation

Well during ancient era, a generation is about 20 years as the life expectancy did not rise til early iron age. So 20*23 is about 460 years. Fairly close to AN's 5 centuries, give or take 10%.

veekie · Apr 9, 2017

Sivantic said:
Actually it's Centralization remember?
New Trails raised Centralization and showed us the corruption.

Corruption isn't that simple:

Namely, just how much corruption Bynwyn had no idea was going on under his nose.

Bynwyn's Mediocre Administration mean that people could get away with corruption unnoticed, despite having higher centralization than with Twythulmyn .

Still, while Twythulmyn knew that to some extent he didn't have the skill to root out all of the corruption, there were a few people he made sure to smile extra long at who he suspected would discover a number of 'errors' in their tallies.

Twythulmyn says he didn't have the skill to root out the corruption, which points to his Average Economy/Administration skill.

We know from the past that Stability marks when corruption becomes a problem rather than an annoyance(we also had MUCH higher Centralization at the time).
So what you need to remove corruption is:
-High Stability. Unpopular actions will need to be taken to root out the corrupt but popular leaders.
-High Legitimacy. The King must be able to push through his desires despite opposition from the ruling caste.
-High Administration. The King must be able to identify the problem to lead to all the corrupt. More blackbirds may lower the difficulty, it's one thing to put together the clues from your reports, and another thing to have a lot of people gathering information.
-High Centralization. The King must higher personal authority than the governors below him. Higher Centralization means a bigger gamble, as the individuals targeted are also going to be powerful in turn when authority is Centralized.

So action wise, removing Corruption should be Restore Harmony + Enforce Authority as double Main on an Administrator+Warrior or Administrator+Diplomat king.

Oh and @Academia Nut
Can you elaborate on what the new stats(Legitimacy, Prestige) reflect and are used for?

Umi-san · Apr 9, 2017

[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom

@tryrar Kk, sorry.

@hylas240 That assumes they can't make it back by the end of the turn, which is unlikely. R.e. EA, mediocre is worse than average, average is a standard by which things are judged. So average is the going rate for 1-0 stab loss to gain 1-3 centralization. So having less than average skews the odds, and IIRC "Poor" is the lowest quality, which Mediocre is only one step above.

@Sivantic No

BungieONI · Apr 9, 2017

One comment, not sure if it's been brought up but our Stone Age Canal completed megaproject says that for completing any major engineering project we gain Art and Mysticism. @Academia Nut does Scourge Warding count as such a project. I imagine it sort of does, social engineering more than anything else.

Sivantic · Apr 9, 2017

VoidZero said:
Well during ancient era, a generation is about 20 years as the life expectancy did not rise til early iron age. So 20*23 is about 460 years. Fairly close to AN's 5 centuries, give or take 10%.

It was an eyeball measure, Just went through the reader mode and ticked off everytime we got a project vote and added a couple for Gwygoytha and the High Chief after Gwygoytha.

veekie said:
Stuff

All I see this pointing out is that we need to go back to regular Kings, we need people that can be good at everything again instead of excelling at one thing and having the rest of their stats suffer.

BungieONI said:
One comment, not sure if it's been brought up but our Stone Age Canal completed megaproject says that for completing any major engineering project we gain Art and Mysticism. @Academia Nut does Scourge Warding count as such a project. I imagine it sort of does, social engineering more than anything else.

*Somewhere an Engineer just felt insulted*

Also, that profile pic, someone else on this thread has that exact one...

EDIT: @lordchaos99 That's the bloke that has it...

Academia Nut · Apr 9, 2017

veekie said:
Can you elaborate on what the new stats(Legitimacy, Prestige) reflect and are used for?

At the moment Prestige is primarily for dick measuring between other major groups, but like Art its full use will come in time. You can probably guess some of the things it can be used for.

Legitimacy on the other hand is the people's trust that the government should be the government, and its mechanical usage is that it serves as a cap on Stability. It is normally maxed at 3, but there are ways to raise it further.

BungieONI said:
does Scourge Warding count as such a project.

It does not.

hylas240 · Apr 9, 2017

Umi-san said:
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom

@tryrar Kk, sorry.

@hylas240 That assumes they can't make it back by the end of the turn, which is unlikely. R.e. EA, mediocre is worse than average, average is a standard by which things are judged. So average is the going rate for 1-0 stab loss to gain 1-3 centralization. So having less than average skews the odds, and IIRC "Poor" is the lowest quality, which Mediocre is only one step above.

@Sivantic No

I was referring towards our local chiefs sending trade missions to the TH in the background. If we fail to extend the peace agreement, the caravans they may send will get raided.

And average is only 2 steps above poor. I feel that your wording when talking about our hero's martial is constantly implying that he is complete garbage at anything requiring shows of force.

tryrar · Apr 9, 2017

hylas240 said:
I was referring towards our local chiefs sending trade missions to the TH in the background. If we fail to extend the peace agreement, the caravans they may send will get raided.

And average is only 2 steps above poor. I feel that your wording when talking about our hero's martial is constantly implying that he is complete garbage at anything requiring shows of force.

I thought he had mediocre martial?

Edit: Yup, here's his stats:

Twythulmyn (Mediocre Martial, Average Econ, Heroic Diplomacy, probable two turn lifespan)

This means while he isn't absolutely terrible with military actions, it might still be better to wait for someone better if we have a choice.

BungieONI · Apr 9, 2017

Sivantic said:
*Somewhere an Engineer just felt insulted*

Hey, I'm a Chem Engineer student.

Besides I was being handwavey there, grasping at straws you know.

highs2lows · Apr 9, 2017

highs2lows said:
When your forests are set ablaze and your women and children are carried off to be slaves remember you were warned. When the crows feast upon your brother's entrails will hubris still then be a cowards word? Alas Babylon

The people have abandoned the warriors path worshipping the trickster Crow who actively worked to sow chaos and destruction and turning against Ashryn your rightful leader. Your judgement shall come in the form of Dead Priests worshipers of the slaughter followed by flocks of crows and carrion.

veekie · Apr 9, 2017

highs2lows said:
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
If @veekie is willing to commit to double main expand warriors next turn I may be swayed.

Well the idea is to try to achieve a breakthrough in how we organize our warriors with a Main.
Double Main only if our Economy supports it. We don't know how the chiefs will spend at present, and Double Main costs 4 Economy. so it might not be feasible.

Would prefer to Main Warriors next turn, then Main it again the turn after that if economy allows.

tryrar · Apr 9, 2017

highs2lows said:
The people have abandoned the warriors path worshipping the trickster Crow who actively worked to sow chaos and destruction and turning against Ashryn your rightful leader. Your judgement shall come in the form of Dead Priests worshipers of the slaughter followed by flocks of crows and carrion.

what the heck are you even going on about?

highs2lows · Apr 9, 2017

[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom

I pray the crows don't feast this turn.

BungieONI · Apr 9, 2017

tryrar said:
what the heck are you even going on about?

I think they're pulling the collectives leg.

i can't really tell...

VoidZero · Apr 9, 2017

tryrar said:
I thought he had mediocre martial?
Edit: Yup, here's his stats:
This means while he isn't absolutely terrible with military actions, it might still be better to wait for someone better if we have a choice.

Please do consider our department chief's function when weighting proposed actions. The various cheif's will cover the King's weakness, so less worry on that front.

Paths of Civilization

Procrastinating.

Somethin's Fucky ...

Passing Flan 布丁魔王

Procrastinating.

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Passing Flan 布丁魔王