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Paths of Civilization

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Hmm...

Seems like a very strange system to me. I'd need to actually play with it for a bit to know for certain, but it seems... dangerous.

Initially it'll probably be fine, but as soon as we can get our innovation high enough to start getting the permanent boosts we'll quickly get ridiculously high stats.

There doesn't seem to be any reason to do the -1 PW actions unless you desperately need short-term boosts (for a conflict generally). Many of the -2 PW actions give permanent stat gains. This may be intentional, but it still seems awkward.

In the original system, we had a bunch of actions that were pure stat consumers to produce other effects (stat incomes/refunds, roll bonuses, narrative effects, action modifications, etc.) There doesn't seem to be any equivalent here, which makes things that increase your overall stat pool a lot more powerful. There's basically no reason you should ever not have development maxxed out as far as I can tell, since it's a massively overpowered (but limited) action.
 
Maybe our resource supplies & trading acumen are so good that making bronze cast cannons is actually economical? IIRC Iron cast cannons were first created because bronze is expensive as shit.
 
notgreat said:
Hmm...

Seems like a very strange system to me. I'd need to actually play with it for a bit to know for certain, but it seems... dangerous.

Initially it'll probably be fine, but as soon as we can get our innovation high enough to start getting the permanent boosts we'll quickly get ridiculously high stats.

There doesn't seem to be any reason to do the -1 PW actions unless you desperately need short-term boosts (for a conflict generally). Many of the -2 PW actions give permanent stat gains. This may be intentional, but it still seems awkward.

In the original system, we had a bunch of actions that were pure stat consumers to produce other effects (stat incomes/refunds, roll bonuses, narrative effects, action modifications, etc.) There doesn't seem to be any equivalent here, which makes things that increase your overall stat pool a lot more powerful. There's basically no reason you should ever not have development maxxed out as far as I can tell, since it's a massively overpowered (but limited) action.
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Education and Academies uber alles.
Like really, in this day and age, we need to, for example, bumrush empiricism and scientific method, while not falling behind military tech so that we can get rifled guns and levee en masse on time.
We need academies spam to beeline important techs line, again, scientific method, steam engine, breach-loaded rifle in parallel, while not falling behind in other ones.


Also, we really really need railroads spam. With our underdeveloped hinterland and potential Siberian expansion, beelining everything needed to spam railroads everywhere is mandatory for us.

Sooo...not easy tbh: we need to be up-to-date on army and navy while modernizing infrastructure and education.

In here, it means we actually want to take Temp Innovation bursts for some time, and also Improve Education and Infrastructure a lot.

Also, we must keep up spamming Trust and Espionage to keep pulling of the insanity we did.


Also, Develop Industry costs 1 PW and we kinda want to do it every turn, so there's one 1PW action we will want to take always.


Like, right now we need:
1. Increase Army, storm is coming.
2. Army research.
3. Finish that Liberalism cooking up in our Academy.
4. Railroads!
5. Steam engine.
6. Mass production of steel.
7. Catch the Gylruv up to wrt infrastructure.
8. Keep diplomancing and infiltrating the world.
9. Secure the trade with Moonson Sea while everyone is on fire.
10. Capitalism.

And like...this all is kinda needed soon.
I doubt getting leeway to increase permastats is going to be all that easy. Let's see I guess.
 
DakkaMania said:
It's a metallurgy issue. Iron cannons are harder to cast compared to bronze.
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A bit more complicated an issue than that. Bronze cannons are safer to operate than cast iron:

Field artillery cannon in Europe and the Americas were initially made most often of bronze, though later forms were constructed of cast iron and eventually steel.[162]​:61​ Bronze has several characteristics that made it preferable as a construction material: although it is relatively expensive, does not always alloy well, and can result in a final product that is "spongy about the bore",[162]​:61​ bronze is more flexible than iron and therefore less prone to bursting when exposed to high pressure; cast iron cannon are less expensive and more durable generally than bronze and withstand being fired more times without deteriorating. However, cast iron cannon have a tendency to burst without having shown any previous weakness or wear, and this makes them more dangerous to operate.
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Eventually, better iron and steel does replace bronze in artillery, but from what I can tell, bronze cannons were still in use by the civil war era, if not later.
 
[X] [War] Joined in on the Alliance to Restore the Monarchy (major participants: Vortuga, Sketch, Tortun, Etal, Halvyni) (1x)
[X] [Rounds] Begin Industrial Age play
 
@Academia Nut - some preliminary thoughts about the doc.

ECON
Just to be clear, Development is a stat that tells us how advanced our industry is, and Industrial Cap is a tracker for how much free industry we have, correct?

CULTURE
When Consciousness is greater than standard of Living, reduce Happiness by the difference until balance corrected
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It might be clearer to say that "when Standard of Living is less than Consciousness, reduce Happiness by the difference until balance corrected." and stick this under SoL instead.

Min. Consciousness = Education - 2
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What does Min mean here? That we die if it ever goes under it, that we aren't allowed to intentionally reduce it past that, or that if we were ever taken below that amount we would stay at that amount anyways?

At 9 Happiness -1 Consciousness until below
At 10 Happiness -2 Consciousness until below
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You've got a positive feedback loop looking to happen here; increasing happiness decreases consciousness, but that increases (SoL - consciousness) which increases happiness. Not sure if you want that.

More to the point, is this really necessary? Generally speaking, it is wise to minimize the amount of mechanics in play, because having to keep track of extra minutae is unfun. I do see the narrative justification for a "euphoria penalty", but if you really want to penalize us for high happiness I think it would be both easier and more fun to simply have the doc say that having happiness at 9-10 may start spawning negative events from laziness or whatnot.





I'll probably comment more later, but this is as far as I've gotten at the moment.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Just to be clear, Development is a stat that tells us how advanced our industry is, and Industrial Cap is a tracker for how much free industry we have, correct?
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Yes. Development is overall how much you can do things, while IC is your current free throughput, essentially.

PrimalShadow said:
It might be clearer to say that "when Standard of Living is less than Consciousness, reduce Happiness by the difference until balance corrected." and stick this under SoL instead.
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That looks workable, was trying to decide where to best put it.

PrimalShadow said:
What does Min mean here? That we die if it ever goes under it, that we aren't allowed to intentionally reduce it past that, or that if we were ever taken below that amount we would stay at that amount anyways?
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Min. means that if you want Consciousness to go lower, you have to suppress Education, because a well educated population is more aware of their situation, and has higher Standard of Living demands, so when failed to be met you will crash your happiness. Thus the intent is to create a balancing act. I will probably end up adjust this mechanic more than once, but it is intended to directly mechanically induce the "Building for tech progress induces social issues" that I didn't apply as much to you before as I should have.

PrimalShadow said:
You've got a positive feedback loop looking to happen here; increasing happiness decreases consciousness, but that increases (SoL - consciousness) which increases happiness. Not sure if you want that.

More to the point, is this really necessary? Generally speaking, it is wise to minimize the amount of mechanics in play, because having to keep track of extra minutae is unfun. I do see the narrative justification for a "euphoria penalty", but if you really want to penalize us for high happiness I think it would be both easier and more fun to simply have the doc say that having happiness at 9-10 may start spawning negative events from laziness or whatnot.
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Somewhat, but Happiness maxes at 10, so it can't go any further. I am looking at what I am writing down already and going "Need to simplify, but how?"
 
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