Even if they have guns, they'll find that they don't go along well with their primary advantage- highly skilled and mobile horse archers.

They'll be forced to fight on foot, like us. But there will be fewer of them.

You did saw what the Khan brought when everyone shattered? Or that time when ash face cleansed lowland? What about the time when Stallion almost bite the dust? Never assume we have more people or guns unless we actually spent effort to find out.
 
[X] [Reform] Naval reform
[X] [Fuel] Deepening trade ties with growing powers

We can't fall behind in the naval race if we want to stay relevant.

And deepening trade ties with growing powers like the Black Sheep should keep things peaceful and hopefully move us closer to each other for mutual benefit.
 
You did saw what the Khan brought when everyone shattered? Or that time when ash face cleansed lowland? What about the time when Stallion almost bite the dust? Never assume we have more people or guns unless we actually spent effort to find out.
We did outnumber not!Ghenghis. It's the reason we 'won'.
 
You did saw what the Khan brought when everyone shattered? Or that time when ash face cleansed lowland? What about the time when Stallion almost bite the dust? Never assume we have more people or guns unless we actually spent effort to find out.
I mean, it's pretty hard to gather up a nomad horde as an outsider.

Like, yeah, you could go arm a tribe, or multiple tribes, with guns, but how do you unite them? And if they do unite, how do you control them and keep them from raiding your lands later on?

They could arm the nomads, but I don't think they would get much out of it. Trade routes through the steppes would require a lot of effort to establish, it'd be slower then either the sea routes or the Ymaryn/Khemetri overland routes, and could eventually backfire if some upstart nomad decides you are weak, and that he can certainly do better by raiding your lands and looting your shit.

Also, I should point out that we actually had more people in most of the later nomad engagements, with the one against Genghis Khan having a 30:1 advantage on our side.

While I won't assume we can field even a fraction of that number, guns and city defenses can likely make up for a lot.
 
If we attack the black sheep confederation while they are busy with the tea people, we would get the rest of Iran and will be met with very grateful tea people who will ally with us instead of the not!Europeans.
 
I'm voting for this unless @Academia Nut corrects me.

[X] [Reform] Land reform
[X] [Fuel] Conquest of minor powers

Land reform to get started on the agricultural revolution (the industrial revolution is still a bit too far out of reach IMO) and better land management for the lands we will be conquering from the Gylruv kingdoms and the Black Sheep Confederation. Conquering those two will also give us access to the triple crown and a very grateful tea people we could use to replace the trade we've lost in the seas, because we simply can't compete with the Vortugas naval power.
 
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[] [Reform] Land reform
-This is about land divisions and efficiency. The people are trying to adapt, but the big chill will still hurt regardless. We need ships to extend our ability to buy grain and cold resistant crops from abroad so we can tank the damage better. So Naval reform.

[] [Fuel] Development of new industries
-This is good but the purses of our city-state allies are "grim" and our grain is "stretched" thin. We'll need time to actually develop these industries, time we might not have before the above 2 critical areas go bust during the big chill.

I'll say that while we're not decisively winning, we're not going with land reforms is just about changing land divisions and squeezing out more efficiency. It's not gonna help us tank the coming chill as well having the money to purchase extra grain from abroad will.

And furthermore, it's kind of a 'SOL' move to Khemtri after we gave them money to basically retool their naval capabilities. We'd be letting more advanced pirates take the initiative for round 2 instead of boosting our allies defenses.

So yes, we're winning sometimes, which isn't something to be satisfied with, but remember that the update says we are the educational and manufacturing center of the world even after the Vortug redirected vast amounts of trade away and tried choking us with pirates. The people know they just have to get wood from the principality through deepened trade and then we can challenge our enemies on an even footing.

That's it.
 
[X] [Reform] Naval reform
[X] [Fuel] Deepening trade ties with growing powers

We still have a shot at joining the colonisation race, lets go for it.
 
[] [Reform] Land reform
-This is about land divisions and efficiency. The people are trying to adapt, but the big chill will still hurt regardless. We need ships to extend our ability to buy grain and cold resistant crops from abroad so we can tank the damage better. So Naval reform.

[] [Fuel] Development of new industries
-This is good but the purses of our city-state allies are "grim" and our grain is "stretched" thin. We'll need time to actually develop these industries, time we might not have before the above 2 critical areas go bust during the big chill.

I'll say that while we're not decisively winning, we're not going with land reforms is just about changing land divisions and squeezing out more efficiency. It's not gonna help us tank the coming chill as well having the money to purchase extra grain from abroad will.

And furthermore, it's kind of a 'SOL' move to Khemtri after we gave them money to basically retool their naval capabilities. We'd be letting more advanced pirates take the initiative for round 2 instead of boosting our allies defenses.

So yes, we're winning sometimes, which isn't something to be satisfied with, but remember that the update says we are the educational and manufacturing center of the world even after the Vortug redirected vast amounts of trade away and tried choking us with pirates. The people know they just have to get wood from the principality through deepened trade and then we can challenge our enemies on an even footing.

That's it.

Or we could conquer them and remove the middle-man, getting a direct trade route to the triple crown, we could also take out the black sheep and save the tea people and then use that gratefulness to replace the Vortuga as their ally and trading partner, removing the reason why the Vortuga are all the way here in the first place.
 
Lightning Round X
[X][Reform] Primary: Land reform
[X][Reform] Secondary: Naval reform
[X][Fuel] Primary: Development of new industries
[X][Fuel] Secondary: Deepening trade ties with growing powers

The entire naval system needed reform if the People wanted a hope in gygo to resist the naval pressure of the Syffrynites, but in order to pay for these reforms they needed other reforms. They needed to be more productive with the land that they actually owned, to be able to produce more things to sell in case their old staples were no longer viable, and they needed more trading partners to obtain all the raw goods they required. To that end, they undertook a series of sweeping reforms. The first and most profound was a reworking of land distribution. Surveyors went through and rationalized the distribution of land and laws governing them. Families that owned a dozen tiny plots scattered across two or three provinces had all those plots consolidated into single packages under a single set of laws. Common and Crown lands that had gone into decline from neglect or over-utilization were similarly reorganized, either put into saner arrangements rather than distributed in patchwork, or sold off to wealthy families that could make better use of them. The natural philosophers of the universities were also brought in to rework crop management practices with the latest in scientific knowledge, to best ensure the vital flows of elemental essences continued to flow through the terrain despite the reorganization.

The effort saw the coffers of the crown swell once again, and the reorganization of the fields also allowed more sheep to be raised in pasture, bringing in more wool that could be processed. The clever artisans of the cities could build larger and more sophisticated looms, allowing for the wool to be processed more finely and more quickly than anywhere else, producing a very fine product that also brought in more wealth. With the increased emphasis on naval matters, the need for intricate clockwork soon appeared, and the experienced metal casters, printers and gunsmiths found that they could expand their ranks with clockwork guilds. Redshore and the Monsoon Sea city of Newport swelled with industry.

But those industries were ever hungry for raw resources that the People struggled to acquire within their own territory. They made many deals, including with Syffrynites in the Monsoon Sea. The more reasonable ones anyway, not the hated Vortugs, but the ones that would buy their weaponry and hire their forces as mercenaries, ones like the Sketch and Halvyni, who were from the radical Meshamini sects the People had supported in generations past and seemed to recognize their scholarship. These trade deals also exposed the People to some of the more esoteric innovations of the Syffrynites, as the Sketch and Halvyni traders they met were part of complex and elaborate 'joint stock trade companies' that used strange methods of credit and debit to finance the construction and outfitting of their trade missions. Once the scholars at the university actually talked with people of actual accounting responsibility it made considerable sense to them.

However, as several bad winters rolled through, it became obvious that all of these reforms and money making efforts had come too little, too late. The Nevien Patriarch used his trade networks to buoy his people through a famine and unify the Gylruv kingdoms to the north, while the Black Sheep had done something similar to the tribes of the east. All land routes to the east were controlled by those two groups, and together they could throttle the flow of luxuries from the east to the People and then onward to the Saffron Sea. With the People still playing catch up in the sea and the Khemetri undergoing economic chaos as silver and gold flooded the markets of the Saffron Sea from the west, the loss of those overland silk routes would mean the death of the People. If either of the Gylruv or Black Sheep cut off the supply of raw resources, the economy of the People would stall, and if both did it at the same time, the economy would outright explode.

The Gylruv, their northern ports spending an increasingly intolerable amount of time frozen over in the winter, had reason to go to war with the People. Their envoys made it increasingly clear that they wanted the river ports on the Yllthon, and also passage through Trelli. The Black Sheep, increasingly annoyed with the Vortuga and Sketch efforts in the Lands of Spice and Tea, were making noises that suggested that they might like Newport for themselves. The armies of both of these powers were immense from the territory they had conquered giving them huge populations to draw upon. The generals and spies and ambassadors of the People figured that they had enough of a dense urban core to fight off one of these powers, but it was also pretty obvious that if one struck the other would not be far behind to tear apart the distracted People. Only internal troubles from the bad weather and the knowledge that whoever pounced first would likely get the lesser share of the spoils, but it was also obvious that eventually one of them - probably the Gylruv deciding that the warm water ports were a good enough prize for their needs - decided that the lesser prize was good enough.

The ambassadors saw only one path that would guarantee safety: submission to one power or the other. If the People agreed to vassalization under the Nevien Patriarch or the Black Emperor then the other could not tear off a chunk of them. Of the two, the Black Emperor with his better trade routes and penetration into the Kus regions of the Lands of Tea and Spice and opposition to the Syffrynites in the Monsoon Sea was probably preferable, but the Nevien Patriarchy also claimed descent from the ancient Amber Road, and the Patriarch had even gone so far to declare himself 'haddyth', a debased form of the Old Ymaryn for 'high king', as part of a claim to legitimacy over the rest of the Gylruv, so there was probably more legal wiggle room for forging a low pain vassalization arrangement.

Or the People could defy both powers and almost inevitably be torn apart in the struggle.

Decision time
[] Bend knee to the Gylruv (1.1x)
[] Bend knee to the Black Sheep (1x)
[] Defy both (0.8x)
 
Who is whom? I've missed the name changes. Gylruv are what grew out of the Northern trade post, and the Black Sheep are the old lowlands?

Edit: From discord
Gylruv are Not!Russia and they want Crimea, and the Black Sheep are basically the Mughals, controlling the eastern lowlands, the Horse Mountains, the paths to the Salt Sea, and pushing into Not!India
 
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