We're not that dependent on overflow for tech. A large part of it comes from refunds. If we get one more GP, we'll be rather solid.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Yes, a Main Cash Crops and doube Sec React Expan Econ is what we need.
I'd argue that we want a Main Cement Works as well, as we'll have plenty of Forests. People seem fixated on them at the moment.
The cement will probably have interesting interactions with our immense amount of infrastructure that's being built
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Or we can just vote for Expand Econ and then go over refund with one react.
- Location
- Illinois
@Academia Nut why does Alyx think the DL proposal is good?
We don't need Main Cash Crops; we can do it with just Expand Econ, if we take enough Expand Econ.
The EE for overflows is, as far as I know, autorefunded.
He's a Patrician, born and bred? And as he's the King, whose family do you think will get the prime land?
How? I thought that overflows fully and automatically refunded their EE, so it was impossible to use Expand Economy to change LTE.
- Location
- Illinois
He's also excellent admin, so if he supports it, he has a reason beyond 'cause Patrician'.
He could think it's an excellent way of administratively locking in his descendants' power against future kings with different agendas.
Double Sec Expand Economy plus Main Cash Crops. Reduces EE while also getting lots of other nice overflows to pay of other goodies.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
@Academia Nut could you clear up what happens to our Econ Expansion when we expand econ over our limit? Is the excess refunded?
It caps out at our EE refund limit. If we go over 5 overflow, all remaining overflow hits our LTE.
Depends on our other react votes, since they can lower our econ. For instance, Boundary Passage costs two econ and will be paid this turn. 3x Expand Econ would get us to 11 EE right now, which is all but one of our cities online, but every point of econ we spend increases it due to us overflowing less.
So, we use 4x Expand Econ to ensure we get our cities online. At that point, it's better to just Main Textiles and 2x Expand Econ.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
PSN Expand Econ and React Expand Econ, dropping our EE by 18.
- Location
- Illinois
And if he says that, we can ignore it. If he has a legit reason to support it though, I want to know.
We can't disregard an option because of our own biases. We need to look at each option and see their pros and cons as much as we can before we decide.
So much for my attempt at humor. Needs more smiles I guess.
- Location
- Canada
My badSo much for my attempt at humor. Needs more smiles I guess.
Alright. Here is my suggest for what we do, stat-wise:
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
Here is what effect this has on Econ:
Cement: -2 Econ
Farming: +21 Econ
Total = +19
Currently, we have 17/27 Econ. Adding +19 gets us to 36/27 Econ. That is 9 over cap, which means we get 9 points of overflow. Of those 9 points, 5 refund EE, but the rest don't - which means we get -4 EE. Thus, our total EE will go down by 4 + (27-17) = 14; i.e. from 25 to 11. Well within bounds of where we need to be.
It also refills some of our stats, which is necessary given how much we are spending.
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
Here is what effect this has on Econ:
Cement: -2 Econ
Farming: +21 Econ
Total = +19
Currently, we have 17/27 Econ. Adding +19 gets us to 36/27 Econ. That is 9 over cap, which means we get 9 points of overflow. Of those 9 points, 5 refund EE, but the rest don't - which means we get -4 EE. Thus, our total EE will go down by 4 + (27-17) = 14; i.e. from 25 to 11. Well within bounds of where we need to be.
It also refills some of our stats, which is necessary given how much we are spending.
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- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Thanks for doing the EE math, dude. Now I just have to figure out what Gilded Age Bonuses I want...
No, we are totally dependent on overflow. Sure, we get a lot of tech each turn from refunds, but by necessity refunds give us less than we spend. E.g. we might spend 20 Tech, and get 6 back - in which case we are still down 14 that needs to be filled somehow. If we get that second refund up, we would be getting 10 back or something like that - still leaving a shortfall of 10.
- Location
- Illinois
Oh, and do you really think that mister 'duty is paramount' would do something just to advance his line? He's been shown to be a wise, stable and insightful general and leader so far, why would that stop now? I'm pretty sure we can trust him to be able to look to the future, and realize what kind of effects DL is going to have in the short-mid term, especially in regards to how the King's power might be affected.
We should get his opinion on this before we discard an option out of hand. He is the one on the ground level, after all. He can see a lot of problems we don't ever think about.
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OK.
Main Textiles still seems like a more efficient way of doing this though, given the overflows in question.
Look at what the following does:
[] Sec Expand Econ: +7 Econ, -3 Tech, -7 Econ Expansion, potential additional effects
[] Sec Expand Econ: +7 Econ, -3 Tech, -7 Econ Expansion, potential additional effects
[] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles: -5 Econ, -6 Econ Expansion, -1 Tech, +9 Wealth, +2 Diplo with boats, +1 Culture, +1 Econ next turn, other effects
Plant Cash Crops gives us 5 stats this turn, and two next, and can get our stats exactly where we need them to be. We don't want to suddenly recreate all our cities, that risks screwing us on centralisation.
Now we have -16 EE a turn, I'm wary of shooting our EE into single digits. Things will get very messy then, if our Yeomen have only one action they'd be running to keep still.
Not just to advance his line, to lock in his social class and their power against the recklessness of a future king (i.e., us).
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Derp. This is what I get for doing math in my head and thinking 25 - 16 is 11.
That is indeed enough. We need to be mindful of other econ expenses though, since that will eat into our overflow. In particular, Boundary Passage will cost us two more econ. Improve Festival is another. This already costs us a city, and any more may tip us over the edge and cost us all of them.
Will it? The costs will come with the action, and I don't think we will be doing actions now, only on main turn.
Mega Tracks perform 1 progress at regular costs the turn they are picked, even if not during the main.
This option would get us +9 Econ, -5 LTE, -7(+3) Tech, +9 Wealth, +2 Diplo, +1 Culture, +1 {Econ+LTE} next turn. Over the next two turns, that will total:
-4 LTE,
+10 Econ,
+8 Other Resources
In comparison, a SINGLE Farming reaction plus the farming PSN would get us +21 Econ, -9(+3) Tech before overflow. I calculated that we would get 9 overflow, so the end result would be -3 LTE, +12 Econ, -9(+3) Tech, +9 Other, for a total of:
-3 LTE
+12 Econ,
+3 Other Resources.
So in short, the the Cash Crops plan would leave us with 2 less econ but 5 more resources, at the cost of one reaction. Not quite worth it.
Then again, it would also get us "other effects" from Planting Textiles, which means more paper. Works well with starting the library, so I am willing to go for it... if we can sway the vote appropriately.