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Paths of Civilization

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ctulhuslp said:
what is the narrative of Trade Excitement? How does it compare to Spreading the wealth?
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Trade Excitement is "This was so effective that we retroactively generated additional wealth during the construction of the Grand Bazaar", which means that you achieved the Guild anti-panic goal before midturn, while Spreading It Around means that the increased trade was of benefit to the subordinates, who each got their own little cut of activity/bribes.

ctulhuslp said:
1. What does our military advisor say about our chances in war against HK?
2. What does he say about usefulness of cavalry against them?
3. How strong are our three merc companies combined when compared to armies of neighbours?
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1. Without Mass Levy if you get into a fight on their home territory it will be hard. Without all the Banner Companies, cracking their home territory will be impossible. As it is, while they can probably be kicked out of the lowlands with considerable effort if they start attacking the Harmurri, you will almost certainly need to go all in if you want to actually dig them out of their home territory
2. Away from their homes it will be of considerable use, but in their homes territory it will be far less useful
3. All three together can probably hold off any one of your significant neighbours. If the Forhuch, Storm People, and Freehills all decided all at once that they despised you, you would probably be overrun, unless you already had your levies up, in which case you might squeak out a stalemate and status quo ante bellum

DakkaMania said:
With concrete available now, any chances that the new Grand Hall gets a domed ceiling like the Pantheon or the Hagia Sofia?

Because if part of the reason is to impress foreign visitors, having a bloody huge unsupported ceiling made of stone is fairly incredible by Iron Age standards.
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Possibly.
 
Academia Nut said:
1. Without Mass Levy if you get into a fight on their home territory it will be hard. Without all the Banner Companies, cracking their home territory will be impossible. As it is, while they can probably be kicked out of the lowlands with considerable effort if they start attacking the Harmurri, you will almost certainly need to go all in if you want to actually dig them out of their home territory
2. Away from their homes it will be of considerable use, but in their homes territory it will be far less useful
3. All three together can probably hold off any one of your significant neighbours. If the Forhuch, Storm People, and Freehills all decided all at once that they despised you, you would probably be overrun, unless you already had your levies up, in which case you might squeak out a stalemate and status quo ante bellum
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Oh wait, we have Mass Levy and full Econ.
Okay then, it's ffiiiine.
(not really Mass Levy is hard to endure for any significant time)

Also, levies have a shot at squeaking out a stalemate against those 3?Well. Better than I expected, but I'd much rather keep sending trade missions to those we don't want to fight (so, everyone).

@Academia Nut
What are our current relations with Freehills and Harmurri?
 
Academia Nut said:
3. All three together can probably hold off any one of your significant neighbours. If the Forhuch, Storm People, and Freehills all decided all at once that they despised you, you would probably be overrun, unless you already had your levies up, in which case you might squeak out a stalemate and status quo ante bellum
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Welp. Does this assume a Yenyna scenario where we are up against just one Heroic Martial (Reshemhetari was Heroic Martial right?) enemy and one other Excellent (The HK General who withdrawed) Martial with one Genius on our side? Or is this before accounting to that kind of Martial Heroes bonii?
 
ctulhuslp said:
What are our current relations with Freehills and Harmurri?
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Good and great, respectively. The Harmurri have realized that they can use the People as an umbrella - so long as they don't do anything stupid they are fairly well protected from invasion - and so they can focus on internal affairs and trade.

Vocalend said:
Welp. Does this assume a Yenyna scenario where we are up against just one Heroic Martial (Reshemhetari was Heroic Martial right?) enemy and one other Excellent (The HK General who withdrawed) Martial with one Genius on our side? Or is this before accounting to that kind of Martial Heroes bonii?
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This is assuming no heroes on either side. Like, if the current Forhuch King went "Fuck it" and got his subordinates to agree with him and Freehills and the Storm People also go all in, the War Chief expects to write-off everything outside the dense core territories.
 
Academia Nut said:
Good and great, respectively. The Harmurri have realized that they can use the People as an umbrella - so long as they don't do anything stupid they are fairly well protected from invasion - and so they can focus on internal affairs and trade.



This is assuming no heroes on either side. Like, if the current Forhuch King went "Fuck it" and got his subordinates to agree with him and Freehills and the Storm People also go all in, the War Chief expects to write-off everything outside the dense core territories.
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Out of curiosity, have the Salt Gifts and Trade Mission sent to the Forhuch been perceived by them to be a bribe, or did they perceive it to be the start of a lucrative trade agreement?
Essentially, is the perception on either side that we are bribing the Nomads to not attack us, or is the perception that of mutually benefiting from trade along the Silk Road?
 
bluefur87 said:
It isn't complicated in terms of math, the efficiency lies in action economy. Or, what we're capable of doing next turn to be more specific.

We need at least 8 Martial, preferably 9, to be able to afford both the More Warships action and March action next turn. The More Warships action is on a literal timer, so it's likely to get voted for. Current Martial is 7.

The only way we can afford both is either by taking two actions that would net us a large amount of stats. Most are using the PSN Main Expand Econ and Wealth +10 for that argument. The other way is more scouts, as that gets us more martial. The former is incredibly unlikely to win because the alternative is much needed loyalty chance from our subordinates, so that leaves the latter.
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ctulhuslp said:
Well, here is detalied-ish explanation.
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Thank you both for the explanation! Sounds like Scouts are the way to go!

[X] [MP] Spread the Wealth Around (All Subordinates Receive +0-1 Loyalty)
[X] [Ext] Keep sending treasure to the Forhuch(Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [Int] Attempt to tear out these maniacs, root and branch (-2 Intrigue, -1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, -1 RA, ???)

[X] [React] Need more scouts (Sec More Blackbirds + Sec More Spiritbonded)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
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Academia Nut said:
This is assuming no heroes on either side. Like, if the current Forhuch King went "Fuck it" and got his subordinates to agree with him and Freehills and the Storm People also go all in, the War Chief expects to write-off everything outside the dense core territories.
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Nomads. Thank Crow for trade.

And the funniest thing? If we don't keep international relationships quite amicable with neighbours, there is very real chance that the moment we are jumped by seriouface nomad horde others pile in.
And since we cannot conquer the world and longer borders are harder to guard, we pretty much must maintain decent relationships with neighbours. Not BFF maybe, but okay enough for them to not dogpile us the moment we are weakened and they are not.
 
Academia Nut said:
Good and great, respectively. The Harmurri have realized that they can use the People as an umbrella - so long as they don't do anything stupid they are fairly well protected from invasion - and so they can focus on internal affairs and trade.
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So it looks like the Harmurri watched the nomad invasions and pretty much went 'Well, fuck, we don't want to fight that. Let's not expand north.'
 
Hmm we really need to wall up. It takes our everything to be able to finish the Highlanders. If we had equivalent coverage alongside our other advantages, we'd be practically impenetrable.
 
Raichu1972 said:
Out of curiosity, have the Salt Gifts and Trade Mission sent to the Forhuch been perceived by them to be a bribe, or did they perceive it to be the start of a lucrative trade agreement?
Essentially, is the perception on either side that we are bribing the Nomads to not attack us, or is the perception that of mutually benefiting from trade along the Silk Road?
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At this level of development, the two are kind of synonymous.
 
Quest said:
Hmm we really need to wall up. It takes our everything to be able to finish the Highlanders. If we had equivalent coverage alongside our other advantages, we'd be practically impenetrable.
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It's kinda a medium-term goal, but, yeah, I agree. Integrating Txolla and fortifying/interconnecting the hell out of the lowlands is pretty darn important.
 
[X] [MP] Spread the Wealth Around (All Subordinates Receive +0-1 Loyalty)
[X] [Int] Attempt to tear out these maniacs, root and branch (-2 Intrigue, -1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, -1 RA, ???)
[X] [Ext] Keep sending treasure to the Forhuch (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
 
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Quest said:
Hmm we really need to wall up. It takes our everything to be able to finish the Highlanders. If we had equivalent coverage alongside our other advantages, we'd be practically impenetrable.
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The Highlanders did essentially turtle up for several centuries, and likely spent most of it heavily fortifying their Core.
We can push them out of the newly conquered Lowlands Territory with just our standing armies, but to take on the Fortress Like Core, in which probably is completely walled and has at least one Colossal Wall, would require the huge amount of bodies that Mass Levy provides.
 
Raichu1972 said:
The Highlanders did essentially turtle up for several centuries, and likely spent most of it heavily fortifying their Core.
We can push them out of the newly conquered Lowlands Territory with just our standing armies, but to take on the Fortress Like Core, in which probably is completely walled and has at least one Colossal Wall, would require the huge amount of bodies that Mass Levy provides.
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A colossal wall requires a True City though, which is pretty rare outside of the Khem and our lands. Not to mention without room for expansion they would have been somewhat more limited in what they could afford to build.

So while I'm certain they are heavily fortified, I suspect they focused the core of their defenses on more strategic points, such as the passes into their land.
 
Citino said:
A colossal wall requires a True City though, which is pretty rare outside of the Khem and our lands. Not to mention without room for expansion they would have been somewhat more limited in what they could afford to build.

So while I'm certain they are heavily fortified, I suspect they focused the core of their defenses on more strategic points, such as the passes into their land.
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From what I remember they had at least some of our farming practices, and not being able to expand would basically force them to build tall.
Coupled with the fact that they are super authoritarian, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had both the population density to make a True City and the means to force people to stay in such a condensed place.

I don't want to underestimate them, as we have done with several people before.
 
Raichu1972 said:
From what I remember they had at least some of our farming practices, and not being able to expand would basically force them to build tall.
Coupled with the fact that they are super authoritarian, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had both the population density to make a True City and the means to force people to stay in such a condensed place.

I don't want to underestimate them, as we have done with several people before.
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Honestly, we will just have to wait and see how the trade mission goes. If all goes well, we might be able to stop their expansion, as well as learn some more about thier inner lands.

Actually, @Academia Nut did our Banners notice any True Cities while they were in the HK? Or anything they thought was unusual in terms of defense or how their settlements were structured?
 
Citino said:
Actually, @Academia Nut did our Banners notice any True Cities while they were in the HK? Or anything they thought was unusual in terms of defense or how their settlements were structured?
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Their capital is heavily fortified and populous, although they were never really let in to get a better look. They figure that they would need a company on each gate to have a hope of being able to siege their way inside, and the Highlanders may have enough internal food and water supplies to make a siege a truly protracted affair.
 
Academia Nut said:
Trade Excitement is "This was so effective that we retroactively generated additional wealth during the construction of the Grand Bazaar", which means that you achieved the Guild anti-panic goal before midturn, while Spreading It Around means that the increased trade was of benefit to the subordinates, who each got their own little cut of activity/bribes.
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How much of spreading it around goes to middle and lower classes? any noticeable amount?
 
Academia Nut said:
Their capital is heavily fortified and populous, although they were never really let in to get a better look. They figure that they would need a company on each gate to have a hope of being able to siege their way inside, and the Highlanders may have enough internal food and water supplies to make a siege a truly protracted affair.
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That sounds like a True City with Colossal Walls to me @Citino
If it requires 24 Martial to siege and has stupidly high internal food and water supplies.
 
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