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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Int] Crack down on the puritans (-2 Intrigue, -1 to +1 Stability, ???)

Just to check the "Root out" action is for the puritans right?
 
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[X] [Int] Crack down on the puritans (-2 Intrigue, -1 to +1 Stability, ???)

Voting for this because it is the most in line with greater justice. Let's not damage one good value in the rush to get rid of a bad one.
 
Somebodynobody10 said:
Are you seriously asking if eradicating racism completely is the right thing to do?
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It sounds like you are saying that yourself. If not, then at least need to seriously read what you quoted before.

Susano was saying that the Puritans believed that what you just said right here?
Somebodynobody10 said:
Puritan beliefs are a toxin that pollutes everything, you do not allow it to fester: you immediately start pulling it out.
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Could be said with Monotheist substituting Puritan.

Fighting one extremist group by joining another... is rather suspect.
Andres110 said:
It is absolutely a bad trait. It is a trait that eats away at PiA and makes the People more violent and intolerant. We should replace it with a Religious Tolerance trait. A Religious Tolerance trait is incompatible with Purity or anything it evolves into.
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Riight, a trait that you have no proof even exists.
 
loserthree said:
If you're unwilling to exercise force, if you refuse to acknowledge the occasions when it is necessary, you have chosen to lose.
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Well, I'm not voting for ignoring the situation. Force has to be used to crack down on these injustices against a part of our People.

But the proportionate use of force was one of the very first social traits we had - it might well have been THE very first one!
 
Susano said:
...now granted, there have also been attacks on foreign merchants, but this still strikes me as viewing everything through an American or at the very least modern lens. This is about religious fanaticism, not racism. But the thing is, if we also "root out" the belief system behind that fanaticism, well, then we're really engaging in the very same thing.
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You mean the "belief system" that says that outsiders and other religions are unclean and to be either cast out or eradicated?
 
Andres110 said:
It is absolutely a bad trait. It is a trait that eats away at PiA and makes the People more violent and intolerant. We should replace it with a Religious Tolerance trait. A Religious Tolerance trait is incompatible with Purity or anything it evolves into.
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How will we get a religious tolerance trait, if we've done a full purge of any dissenting religious adherents?
 
Susano said:
Well, I'm not voting for ignoring the situation. Force has to be used to crack down on these injustices against a part of our People.

But the proportionate use of force was one of the very first social traits we had - it might well have been THE very first one!
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And are we not proportionally attacking people who try to eradicate The Other, by suffocating them before they can grow?
Killer_Whale said:
How will we get a religious tolerance trait, if we've done a full purge of any dissenting religious adherents?
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We are not purging "any dissenting religious adherents". We are purging out the purgers.
 
Killer_Whale said:
How will we get a religious tolerance trait, if we've done a full purge of any dissenting religious adherents?
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Removing a radical religious extreme that primarily advocates religious intolerance will not make us more religiously intolerant. Your argument is bad. There is nothing wrong with removing a bad belief. We will not become religiously intolerant by suppressing a religion that promotes slavery.
 
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Andres110 said:
It is absolutely a bad trait. It is a trait that eats away at PiA and makes the People more violent and intolerant. We should replace it with a Religious Tolerance trait. A Religious Tolerance trait is incompatible with Purity or anything it evolves into.
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Purity of being is at the heart of most relegions mate.

Sins taint the soul, and are purified in repentance. Good and holy deeds bring one ever closer to the ideal of purity and oneness with the divine.
Emulating the character of the pure is height of moral good, To have mastery over ones passions and vices and to live a pure life.
To hold that will/life is sacred and pure at its core, and that snuffing or tainting it is vile.
To hold the arts as as a window to the divine, to have food become part of intricate ritual, for certain passions, such as love to be held in supremacy.
For fashion and aesthetic to develop into idolising what nature hath given, and but work to enliven it.


All these and more purity can evolve to.
 
Andres110 said:
AN said we likely would've gotten it if we protected the monotheists. Do not lie.
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That ship has come and passed. Eradicating a religious group completely will not get us Religious Tolerance trait.

Yes they are extremist, but it is still eradicating a religious group.

You want the Religious Tolerance, you need to show Tolerance, if not exactly a free rein.

We need to tell them that they went to far in Purity. Seek a clean mind and body, but attacking people cleanses nothing.
 
maximillian said:
Purity of being is at the heart of most relegions mate.

Sins taint the soul, and are purified in repentance. Good and holy deeds bring one ever closer to the ideal of purity and oneness with the divine.
Emulating the character of the pure is height of moral good, To have mastery over ones passions and vices and to live a pure life.
To hold that will/life is sacred and pure at its core, and that snuffing or tainting it is vile.
To hold the arts as as a window to the divine, to have food become part of intricate ritual, for certain passions, such as love to be held in supremacy.
For fashion and aesthetic to develop into idolising what nature hath given, and but work to enliven it.


All these and more purity can evolve to.
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You are being way, WAY too optimistic. In the end, the Religious Tolerance trait is better than Purity and the things it evolves to are better than the things Purity can evolve into.

DragonParadox said:
Where are you getting that it promotes slavery?:confused:
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It was an example.
 
Somebodynobody10 said:
You mean the "belief system" that says that outsiders and other religions are unclean and to be either cast out or eradicated?
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A belief system that focuses primarily on spiritual purity is in itself something completely valid, and a trait that in fact quite many RL religions have. If such a belief leads to attacks on people deemed "impure" than this must be cracked down upon, of course. But by itself, belief in purity is as valid as belief in a One God.

Somebodynobody10 said:
And are we not proportionally attacking people who try to eradicate The Other, by suffocating them before they can grow?
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"Proportionally suffocating people"... okay.

Talk about unintentional self-parody...

In short - no. It is proportional to use violence when they are using or threatening to use violence. It is not proportional to use violence against people who simply belief in purity. Might as well use violence against people who believe in the 'One God' then.
 
Somebodynobody10 said:
And are we not proportionally attacking people who try to eradicate The Other, by suffocating them before they can grow?

We are not purging "any dissenting religious adherents". We are purging out the purgers.
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Yes, that is cracking down on them.

The last sentence is pure sophistry. You are purging a dissenting religious adherent called the Puritans. Yes we do not like them, yes it still counts as purging.
 
Andres110 said:
You are being way, WAY too optimistic. In the end, the Religious Tolerance trait is better than Purity and the things it evolves to are better than the things Purity can evolve into.


It was an example.
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Am just describing some of the ways purity is woven into real world sects and philosophies.

Furthermore, whatcha mean by relegious tolerance? Because, outside of a highly decentralised system, and the assumption that the various faiths are actually capable of coexistence. Tolerance becomes but a synonym of strife and anarchy.
 
[X] [MP] Spread the Wealth Around (All Subordinates Receive +0-1 Loyalty)

Loyalty and kindness from good of our heart, what's not to like?

[X] [Int] Attempt to tear out these maniacs, root and branch (-2 Intrigue, -1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, -1 RA, ???)
[X] [Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
[X] [React] Improve Horse Valley Temple (2xSec Temple Actions)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)

Crackdown! Just do the right thing!
 
Sivantic said:
Yes, that is cracking down on them.

The last sentence is pure sophistry. You are purging a dissenting religious adherent called the Puritans. Yes we do not like them, yes it still counts as purging.
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Considering the subject-matter, it is quite impossible to not make this argument... but since even the one the internet law is named after says you shouldn't shy away from it:

I guess we should've spared and allowed the Natzies to keep being part of legitimate political parties.
 
If you want to redeem the People of the sin of purity, this is the opportunity the quest-runner is giving you.

It's not a trick question: the maniacs are the violent, purge-happy puritans. Exercise reading comprehension.

It's not an ethical dilemma: this is the Iron Age, not some posh, post-Enlightenment salon. We will not always have the luxury of grace and gentleness.

Tear. Them. Out.
 
Sivantic said:
That ship has come and passed. Eradicating a religious group completely will not get us Religious Tolerance trait.

Yes they are extremist, but it is still eradicating a religious group.

You want the Religious Tolerance, you need to show Tolerance, if not exactly a free rein.

We need to tell them that they went to far in Purity. Seek a clean mind and body, but attacking people cleanses nothing.
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We can have Religious Tolerance even if we suppress a toxic anti-tolerance faith. As I explained before, even if we had Religious Tolerance, suppressing religions which are harmful to society such as pro-slavery or pro-genocide ones will not remove Religious Tolerance. Religious Tolerance is not about accepting all religions. Removing Purity will not promote religious intolerance, all it will do is declare that religions must play nice with each other.
 
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