- Location
- Sweden
The Lowlanders are shaping up to be The Draka of the story.
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
It's a shame that we can't fortify the valley entrance.
Have you decided on a general language theme for their names yet? Also, do they have their slaves fight? Could a slave theoretically become a freeman through combat?
Infrastructure is how we beat them though. Organize settlement, in the context of the lowlander threat, means rearranging the ditches and homes to be more defensible, and generally organize things to be easier to retreat/call in the warriors. Going out to hit them in their own land is...as already demonstrated, futile.
We can't intentionally develop weapons technology yet, but as it turns out tools to work stone and wood are QUITE adept at turning living meat to not living meat.
- Location
- California
That depends on how we want to fight them. Do we try to fight them soon, or do we count on the idea that we can grow faster than they can and build up our supply base first?
We're already pretty good at turtling due to the fact that our main food source is a compact settlement in hilly terrain. So 'building up and waiting for them to come to us' is definitely doable.
How close are the lowlanders to our borders, anyway?
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
It hasn't been but I noticed it.
Honestly, I support turtling and then, once we've turtled, steadily expanding outward in a wave of forts, raids, and diplomats in order to conquer their territory.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
I don't think we're quite so desperate as to need that kind of response. Yes, they're especially capable warriors. That said, even assuming we're only at 25% of their population, around a third of their population seems to be slaves they wouldn't trust with battle, while you also have to assume that they can't field the young or old. We have limited class-based warrior culture compared to farmer levy with experienced nobility, so we can assume that they'll have maybe three times as many bodies on the field as we can get, assuming they all banded together. This is weakened by the fact that their freemen are basically desperate levy soldiers hoping to impress their betters, and further weakened by our home field advantage. Finally, unless we piss the largest factions off and get them to band together, they can't field more than maybe 15% of their total might (approximately one major faction), well within the safe threshold of what we can handle.
Neat, so our administration and bureaucracy is formed on an as-needed basis, primarily through appointed or elected trained specialists.
I think it depends mostly on how quickly they're getting closer to us.
If they're still far away, we have time to build up our economy first. More economy means more babies, means warriors to fight them with.
If they're getting uncomfortably close, we build up defenses before they attack.
If we want to attack them first, we focus on getting more warriors. This last tactic would be more about shoring up our weaknesses rather than focusing on our strengths.
StellarMonarch
Myrmidon
- Location
- Québec
[X] Integrate, bringing all under a unified structure
[X] Stay home, brace for trouble
[X] Stay home, brace for trouble
- Location
- Mists of Albion
This and getting better quality warriors would be absolutely crucial if 'Hannibal's at the gates' so to speak.
Defences and economy are nice and all, but I would rather we have enough warriors to make those defences effective and keep that economy safe from raiding
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
It should be mentioned that the main reason that Hannibal never took Rome was because he had was pretty sure that was smart as he was he couldn't bull his way through the walls.
Better Walls are a force multiplier for the defending side, where as getting more warriors at this stage is only additive.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For the farmer people I am going for a psuedo-Welsh "look" because Welsh doesn't get enough love and I figured they were owed a turn, although I am keeping it all fluid through the ages.
Social caste is determined by a combination of merit and parentage. If your father is of a higher caste than your mother he can elect to increase your caste up to his own, but it is not automatic. So freemen who sire children with their slaves can elevate them to freemen, and warriors can elevate theirs to freemen or warriors. Most such elevations are the sons of slaves brought up to freemen status. Women can't serve as warriors and largely are outside of the status based hierarchy, so theirs is slightly different, in that daughters of warriors are considered one rank higher than their mothers up to the rank of their father for the purposes of desirability of marriage. Thus the daughters of freemen and warriors with their slaves can either be slaves or married off at freeman status. The daughters of warriors and freeman status women are thus warrior status women and are extremely desirable. There are only a few families where they have remained on top long enough to produce warrior-warrior pairings but their daughters are of course a hot commodity.
Non-famial manumission if possible but rare. Slave uprisings are either put down or become new lines of freemen and warriors, depending on the degree of success. Slave uprisings that try to shake off the system either have to run from the lowlands or the major settlements descend upon them like vultures in the reorganization chaos.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
WELSH
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
This is a real place.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
So are we going to be the bitch of England?
*Hopes they ignore that he is english*
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Also an advertising stunt, but yes.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Honestly my CKII games are all Welsh all the time, so I'm really not that upset by the use of the language I get the most exposure to, I just thought it would be especially entertaining to point out that an 84 character word referred to an actual town (technically three towns).
FriedIce
The Authentic Fake
- Location
- Hyperreality
Tannistry is great, isn't it?
zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
So I'd like to discuss the drought and the effects it had on the various tribes in our area. This is just a generalization based on what I read, so take it with a pinch of salt and let me know if I'm mistaken about something. From what I can tell, the drought had several major effects on the people living here.
- Most of the smaller tribes and villagers were probably wiped out or lost a lot of their people due to starvation. They've either disbanded, fled, or became integrated or enslaved by a larger group.
- Our own people suffered terribly, but due to our focus on mass farming and environmentally friendly practices, we managed to scrape up enough food to survive. We were willing to share with others, allowing refugees to take a portion of food even when we had little. This paid off massively in the long run since we now have the good will of all our neighbors (except the lowlanders, but fuck them). Since the drought ended, we've been bouncing back pretty well, improving our Economy and Diplomacy and forming a proto-alliance with the Traders and Fisher Village.
- The Traders are more or less part of our tribe now, so while they did suffer somewhat during the drought, they've survived pretty much intact. The animals they gave us were really handy as an alternative food source when we couldn't grow anything, which enabled our people to survive that much longer.
- The Fisher Village did ok since their food sources weren't affected by the drought, though they seemed to pick the "let's not give away our food" option. Afterwards, they had problems with their food supply which eventually led to our little alliance thing. No matter which integration option we pick this turn, I'm fairly certain they're now one of our closest allies.
- The Spirit Talkers did fairly well during the drought since they managed to get people to bring them food. I'm not sure whether they're playing a con, actually dealing with spirits, or just THINK they're dealing with spirits, but it seems to be paying off for them. However, once the drought ended they began launching raids against the lowlanders because they felt that the human sacrifice was insulting the spirits. Though they only did limited damage because the lowlanders are so spread out, the spirit talkers are planning some kind of ritual to punish the lowlanders and wipe them out completely. Not sure whether they're onto something or are just deluded, but we should keep an eye on them anyway.
- The Lowlanders appear to have suffered quite a bit during the drought since their inefficient and environmentally destructive farming methods couldn't produce enough food to keep them all fed. They've dealt with this issue by turning to human sacrifice, thus winning the "most hated peoples" award for the local area. Since the drought ended, they've continued their ways, leading to a current population boom. It's doubtful that they'll be able to maintain this growth for long, but in the short run they are our biggest threats.
Since it's obvious that we're going to come into conflict with the lowlanders at some point, we should also consider our martial options.
- Be aggressive. Go out and attack the lowlanders. This is a more proactive option, but even in a best case scenario we'd only do limited damage as the lowlanders have such a large and spread out population. Worst case scenario is that it backfires and convinces the lowlanders to band together instead of fighting among themselves.
- Slow, creeping conquest. Someone suggested seizing the lowlanders territory, building forts and slowly expanding our reach. It's a possible long term strategy, but right now I don't think that it's the best option. We don't have the ability to build proper forts yet and even if we did such defenses take time to build and will need to be kept supplied with soldiers and food. Creating a fort is also a big, visible sign that we're planning to stay and fight, which might convince the lowlanders to cooperate just to kick us out.
- Turtle up and be defensive. I feel that this is the best strategy we have at the moment. We live in hilly terrain, get bonuses to fighting on our home ground and have the people and infrastructure to build some solid defenses. Our warriors are, if not superior, at least on par with the lowlanders, so once we expand their numbers we should be able to fight off even a major raid. Even simple defenses like ditches or walls can potentially stop an attacker in their tracks and once we get better weapons we can make it all but impossible for the lowlanders to face us head on.
- Most of the smaller tribes and villagers were probably wiped out or lost a lot of their people due to starvation. They've either disbanded, fled, or became integrated or enslaved by a larger group.
- Our own people suffered terribly, but due to our focus on mass farming and environmentally friendly practices, we managed to scrape up enough food to survive. We were willing to share with others, allowing refugees to take a portion of food even when we had little. This paid off massively in the long run since we now have the good will of all our neighbors (except the lowlanders, but fuck them). Since the drought ended, we've been bouncing back pretty well, improving our Economy and Diplomacy and forming a proto-alliance with the Traders and Fisher Village.
- The Traders are more or less part of our tribe now, so while they did suffer somewhat during the drought, they've survived pretty much intact. The animals they gave us were really handy as an alternative food source when we couldn't grow anything, which enabled our people to survive that much longer.
- The Fisher Village did ok since their food sources weren't affected by the drought, though they seemed to pick the "let's not give away our food" option. Afterwards, they had problems with their food supply which eventually led to our little alliance thing. No matter which integration option we pick this turn, I'm fairly certain they're now one of our closest allies.
- The Spirit Talkers did fairly well during the drought since they managed to get people to bring them food. I'm not sure whether they're playing a con, actually dealing with spirits, or just THINK they're dealing with spirits, but it seems to be paying off for them. However, once the drought ended they began launching raids against the lowlanders because they felt that the human sacrifice was insulting the spirits. Though they only did limited damage because the lowlanders are so spread out, the spirit talkers are planning some kind of ritual to punish the lowlanders and wipe them out completely. Not sure whether they're onto something or are just deluded, but we should keep an eye on them anyway.
- The Lowlanders appear to have suffered quite a bit during the drought since their inefficient and environmentally destructive farming methods couldn't produce enough food to keep them all fed. They've dealt with this issue by turning to human sacrifice, thus winning the "most hated peoples" award for the local area. Since the drought ended, they've continued their ways, leading to a current population boom. It's doubtful that they'll be able to maintain this growth for long, but in the short run they are our biggest threats.
Since it's obvious that we're going to come into conflict with the lowlanders at some point, we should also consider our martial options.
- Be aggressive. Go out and attack the lowlanders. This is a more proactive option, but even in a best case scenario we'd only do limited damage as the lowlanders have such a large and spread out population. Worst case scenario is that it backfires and convinces the lowlanders to band together instead of fighting among themselves.
- Slow, creeping conquest. Someone suggested seizing the lowlanders territory, building forts and slowly expanding our reach. It's a possible long term strategy, but right now I don't think that it's the best option. We don't have the ability to build proper forts yet and even if we did such defenses take time to build and will need to be kept supplied with soldiers and food. Creating a fort is also a big, visible sign that we're planning to stay and fight, which might convince the lowlanders to cooperate just to kick us out.
- Turtle up and be defensive. I feel that this is the best strategy we have at the moment. We live in hilly terrain, get bonuses to fighting on our home ground and have the people and infrastructure to build some solid defenses. Our warriors are, if not superior, at least on par with the lowlanders, so once we expand their numbers we should be able to fight off even a major raid. Even simple defenses like ditches or walls can potentially stop an attacker in their tracks and once we get better weapons we can make it all but impossible for the lowlanders to face us head on.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Both of these options would require us to get better at instructor or large scale projects.
Cause they will come north sooner or later.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Because then we'd be leaving behind all the land that we spent a shitton of effort on. We're probably going to be expanding our farms more to the north, eventually meeting the shore & the fishers, but we still need to stay where we are and build forts to our south or otherwise in our towns in order to protect us & our food from the lowlanders.
I 100% agree that turtling up in the short/medium term is the best option. Building up our warriors is great and all, especially when we raid them, but that doesn't provide as much defense for our civilians nor for our food. So it needs to come after. But once we've turtled up, we need to deal with them, and we can't do that if we just let well enough alone. The best option for us is that they all kill each other and we swoop in, but it's more likely that they'll either join up or just raid us regularly, which will force us to act.
Building forts and doing wide-ranging raids out from there is the best choice, imho. The forts will provide security, and the raids will make it so that if they raid us in turn it will start from far enough away that we learn about it. We could maybe take in the slaves early on and re-educate them, but it's likely that after the first couple of times they'll find out and start planting traitors. However, even if that occurs our Sharing Circle might oblige us to take care of them anyways.
Edit:
Yeah, making forts and turtling will require us to get better at infrastructure than before, but we alrdy have all the ingredients we need for that. We're great at major projects, have decent stonework and wall-building experience, and know how to dig ditches. The only things we need to learn are how to build even taller, thicker walls and in what shape it would be best to build them.
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