Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
ctulhuslp said:
I've heard that argument against feeding people before Trelli war. Any risk is suicide apparently.
We fed people, we did not die. Again.

We've already did low-risk choice previous turn. We got Purity out of it, and removing xenophobia is going to be a bother, if at all possible. Given that not removing them will be lower-risk option every time (that's just how humans are, we love to hate the others), I am not sure if we even can.
That 1 Stability was so not worth getting stuck with xenophobia for foreseeable future.
So fuck this cowardice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Trelli war which completely fucked our diplomacy over and ate up actions everywhere, you mean?

And which was basically a phyrric victory?

And at the start of which we had no plague, no ongoing disasters and whatnot?

The Trelli war cost us so much more than we got from it. We sacrificed to feed people in to get maluses.

We abandoned the Ymaryn way in the Trelli war because we decided that killing tons of people to help other people kill other people for the reason of slavery bad was a good idea for idealistic reasons.
 
Last edited:
PrimalShadow said:
And what about the main thrust of my post - that we are putting ourselves on a 1 turn timer before break?

It's fine and dandy to say that we need more troops. But more than that, we are going to need more TIME - practically speaking, enough for the Khan to die, since frankly that is how we deal with most heroicly led hordes. And you are telling me that nope, you want to bet it all on winning the entire war against someone who is more skilled and more mobile than us, in a SINGLE TURN?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We have beaten heroic led nomads before, when they had bigger relative numbers.

And a plague with 10 to 20% lethality will not kill us.

Besides - this khan is a religious fanatic. He wants to destroy cities, not just raid.
He will come to us.

We tried to play it safe last turn, and got Purity out of it.

Pretty much each time we tried to play it safe in this quest, we lost.

Each time we took a risk, or stuck to our principles despite adversity, we were rewarded.

And I will not tolerate nomads killing the People and razing our cities.

They want to kill us?
They shall drown in our blood.
 
Shard said:
The Trelli war which completely fucked our diplomacy over and ate up actions everywhere, you mean?

And which was basically a phyrric victory?

And at the start of which we had no plague, no ongoing disasters and whatnot?

The Trelli war cost us so much more than we got from it. We sacrificed to feed people in to get maluses.

We abandoned the Ymaryn way in the Trelli war because we decided that killing tons of people to help other people kill other people for the reason of slavery bad was a good idea for idealistic reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And I was against Trelli war, because killing people for flimsy reasons is dumb.

Feeding the others, on the other hand, was the only thing that kept the war from killing our diplomacy completely.

This is different.
Nomads wants not only to kill us, but to completely destroy our way of life.

There is a wrong war, and then there is a necessity to protect your people.

No sacrifice is too much for that.
 
Last edited:
Shard said:
The Trelli war which completely fucked our diplomacy over and ate up actions everywhere, you mean?

And which was basically a phyrric victory?

And at the start of which we had no plague, no ongoing disasters and whatnot?

The Trelli war cost us so much more than we got from it. We sacrificed to feed people in to get maluses.

We abandoned the Ymaryn way in the Trelli war because we decided that killing tons of people to help other people kill other people for the reason of slavery bad was a good idea for idealistic reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What are you on about? I am talking about the food vote. I am not surprised you forgot, but people here were running full paranoia over the idea of giving away food - there was a parallel famine and so on.

I've heard the lines about it being suicide more than enough. From people who voted for war on slavery. (I voted against the war, but didn't argue much - was too busy responding to all the "CHARITY IS SUICIDE")
Guess who was proven right?
 
ctulhuslp said:
What are you on about? I am talking about the food vote. I am not surprised you forgot, but people here were running full paranoia over the idea of giving away food - there was a parallel famine and so on.

I've heard the lines about it being suicide more than enough. From people who voted for war on slavery. (I voted against the war, but didn't argue much - was too busy responding to all the "CHARITY IS SUICIDE")
Guess who was proven right?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That was in the narrative past, when the dark evils of mechanics and numbers existed not.
tenchifew said:
And cowards do not build empires.

Besides, more often than not, cowards run and die like dogs.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Our empire is killing us, thank you very much.
 
ctulhuslp said:
I am just curious....how many people can we field in full Levy, with 50 Martial?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The amount of people we field is not dependent on the amount of martial we have, but on the amount of war actions we take. If war actions exceed

We have 1 Main and 4 Sec actions. IIRC, each Sec action creates 4 clashes per turn, each deploying 2-3 martial. So, total deployement of 72 martial(18 per phase), though martial will obviously be reused if it didn't die in the previous phase.
 
Last edited:
ctulhuslp said:
What are you on about? I am talking about the food vote. I am not surprised you forgot, but people here were running full paranoia over the idea of giving away food - there was a parallel famine and so on.

I've heard the lines about it being suicide more than enough. From people who voted for war on slavery. (I voted against the war, but didn't argue much - was too busy responding to all the "CHARITY IS SUICIDE")
Guess who was proven right?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Whoever added the tag "hubris is a coward's word"? :V

New Spiritual Value Gained!
Purity
Only through physical purity can spiritual purity be attained. There can however be no mercy for those who would contaminate the pure.
Pros: Bonuses to resisting disease and foreign influences
Cons: The impure and unclean must be eliminated
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This purity thing seems ok, somewhat dangerous comparable to faction; but acceptable. No one said elimination is to kill all the other people, physical training is a viable channel to move towards "purity". Incidentally i'm pro-harmony and view purity/supremacy in distrust.:p
 
Shard said:
That was in the narrative past, when the dark evils of mechanics and numbers existed not.

Our empire is killing us, thank you very much.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The first one is simply wrong.

This happened parallel to the Trelli war.
Very much a time of numbers and mechanics.

The second one is wrong as well.
Our Empire is the only thing that kept us safe from Khemetri, highlands kingdom and so on and so on.
 
Last edited:
PrimalShadow said:
So when we send the Banner Companies, we get defeated in detail because the big bad horde can trounce then and whatever forces our Vassals muster.

But if we send the levies we well, suddenly "We have beaten heroic led nomads before"?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes?

Because numbers actually matter?

Banner companies cannot be everywhere it matters in sufficient numbers, they and the levies can.
 
Last edited:
SeptimusMagisto said:
Honestly, Purity wouldn't be terrible if we could manage to drop the metaphorical aspect and focus it entirely on sanitation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think we're going to be able to do that, tbh. At best its evolution might be a bit more merciful and less hardline.


[X] [War] Scramble what warriors are available (Sends a Sec War Mission and Mercenary Companies to the east)
 
Last edited:
This is going to be unpopular but... I like Purity. Sure it's nasty in the long run, but first we have to make it through the current crises before worrying about that and this thing helps us fight the plague.
 
Shard said:
That was in the narrative past, when the dark evils of mechanics and numbers existed not.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Noo. I mean another one. I mean famine that was in the same vote as the Trelli war.

PrimalShadow said:
Says one of the people who thinks that three mercenary banner companies and all of our Vassals put together are going to fold like wet paper.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Companies are at 5, 6, and 7 efficiency.
I am not sure whether vassals even have cavalry.
3 companies plus all our light cavalry plus vassals might stand a chance. Against full cavalry stack on plains, it's far from guaranteed.
Plus the vote for 3 companies is supposed to go with applying Expand Econ, and not Spiritblooded, and ceding so much cavalry advantage to nomads is, uh, a bad idea.
 
[X] [War] Scramble everyone (Sends warriors east, Switches to Mass Levy policy and removes Isolated Economy status)
[X] [React] We need more fast scouts to counter the nomads! (Sec More Spiritbonded)

Nomads are evil, what else is new? For real though, they will stamp out any embers of our civ should we fracture....it's best if we get rid of them ASAP and go back to dealing with the plague. If we fracture after the destruction of the horde, atleast we won't have to worry about their crazy khan hunting us to extinction.
 
Still going through all the discussion, but please think beyond exactly two phases out.

If we mass levy, the phases go:
1) send what we have (levy is preparing)
2) main turn: reset temp Econ damage resistance, get 20ish actions, mass levy adds 30ish martial
3) future subturns with negative wealth and low econ (which makes the levy extremely weak)

If we send what we have:
1) we send what we have
2) main turn- we're weaker than above but our heroic admin can Order of Operations to get whatever he wants with wealth and econ-gaining options available to pay for everything
3) we have light cavalry 3 and a mostly-recovered army ready to crush the nomads.

Mass levy helps us for all of a single phase. We have a little bit of light cavalry- not enough to win, but enough to let us survive a couple phases of combat.
 
tenchifew said:
Yes?

Because numbers actually matter?

Banner companies cannot be everywhere it matters in sufficient numbers, they and the levies can.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Numbers matter, sure. But they aren't going to take us from instant defeat to instant victory in a turn. At best, they can turn an instant loss into a drawn out fight, or a losing battle of attrition into a winning one.

At least that's the case for this tactical situation, whether we wouldn't be able to force a fight.


And don't give me bullshit about the nomad Khan being honor-bound to attack us if we hole up in a city. That would be a stupid Martial decision, which is impossible with his stats. They will just go past and keep burning farms and settlements, laughing as they go.
 
Last edited:
Eh, Purity should be relatively easy to push against, once this crisis is over and we've recovered somewhat. We just need to take some of those huge and damaging refugee influxes that PiA grants, to accept some "foreign influence". If we do that and do not use the possible Purity-granted options, it'll decay like Sacred War once did.
 


^ current topic. Why is beating meat and beating dead horse completely different anyway?

Greater Justice
Justice exists for the good of all, protecting the community from the depravity of those who would do it damage.
Pros: Justice is a community objective that can be served through the careful application of punishment
Cons: The needs of the many can outweigh the needs of the few

Joyous Symphony
All have their part to play in this world, be it their interaction with each other, their neighbours, or with the spirits. When all the parts of a group are moving in peaceful accord, the result is greater than the sum of the parts, and transcendental to behold.
Pros: Bonus to collective action, spiritually and ecologically harmonious actions, and to concerted efforts. Gain +1 Stability every time a defensive war non-destructively ends.
Cons: Disharmony is to be corrected, require casus belli to declare war

Philosopher Kings (Maxed Development)
Through intellect and careful testing of the world, the People have developed a love of knowledge and learning, and expect their leaders to follow suit.
Pros: Majorly improved use of study actions and innovation rolls, improved leader skill sets
Cons: Question social foundations, -1 Wealth per turn

Purity
Only through physical purity can spiritual purity be attained. There can however be no mercy for those who would contaminate the pure.
Pros: Bonuses to resisting disease and foreign influences
Cons: The impure and unclean must be eliminated
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Our trait selection are reaching a nice amount of downward-spiral potential.

The tyranny of majority can now fully justify oppression of minority by using obscure and ambiguous classification of people, without anyone being able to completely refute the loaded arguments. The development of mixing physical, spiritual, and metaphorical assessments into suppressing individuals/groups are now very enticing; divide and conquer human resources are a go.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top