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Paths of Civilization

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@Academia Nut
How defensible are the Txolla settlements? Do we know if they have the setup to do the quarantine systems our core has?
What does our war advisor say about sending the warriors/mercs out?

OliWhail said:
My understanding is that if we don't take Expand Econ reaction, we start hemorrhaging Stability from Temp Econ damage. Is that not accurate?
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Next phase will drop our econ to 0ish. We must either expand econ now or mass levy to remove Isolated Exonomy. Unfortunately, mass levy would mean our wealth completely explodes next turn since we'll have no income and no actions, and our econ won't be much better. (It'll gain from the gulvalley integration and the refugee payouts, but that probably won't be enough to counteract the random losses we'll be taking)
 
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Rukia said:
Because we are going to be loosing soldiers to the plague like flies while the Nomads are apparently somewhat immune.
They can just bog us down and let us rot to death in front of them.
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If our solders have the plague, I think fighting the nomads gives them a chance to catch if from us. Yay?

Also, not sure that the plague kills enough people to really hurt an army. Losing 20% of your civilian population screws a nation; losing 20% of your army hurts a lot but is something that happens a bunch of the time on campaigns anyway, so I doubt it shuts the whole thing down.
 
[X] [War] Scramble what warriors are available (Sends a Sec War Mission and Mercenary Companies to the east)
[X] [React] The economy, fools! (Sec Expand Econ, cannot be taken with Mass Levy active)
Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Oct 27, 2017 at 12:59 AM, finished with 121878 posts and 32 votes.
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OliWhail said:
My understanding is that if we don't take Expand Econ reaction, we start hemorrhaging Stability from Temp Econ damage. Is that not accurate?
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Losing vassals will ping Stability too, so it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Rukia said:
Do Nomad's count as Unclean?
Can we perhaps... purge them?
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*newspaper.jpg*

Although you make a good point, sorta.
If we have an option to take in nomadic/MH refugees, we either take them in or we get a belief that others are impure, with all the fun of that.

Timewinders said:
Is it a credit to this quest that it's as futile as real life?
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You mean that it's not powercreep and is actually, you know, remotely historically accurate? Yes, definitely yes.
 
Sivantic said:
The problem is that they are just going to keep coming and enslaving our people to power their Waaaugh!

We have to try something :/
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In this case, doing something is likely to do far more damage to ourselves than our enemy. Let him take his free shot, wait for him to move into the critical range, and then hit him with everything we've got.
 
Rakuhn said:
Better to lose Lord's Loyalty than to lose all of our mercenary companies. The Thunder Twins are too far away for our troops to assist them effectively, are not nearly as fortified as our core, and lack the Sacred Forest bonus to fighting in forest environs. While the Thunder Speakers may be situated on defensive terrain, the Thunder Horse only occupies floodplain. The hills and mountains were occupied by the Mountain Horse.

And there is still a good chance that the nomads will attack the Harmurri or the Highland Kingdom before attacking the core proper.
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Lord's Loyalty also ensures that our Western Vassals remain with us. We lose them, we lose our Economy Tax.

Harmurri is a maybe, but Highland Kingdom is the hard point of hardpoints.
 
notgreat said:
Next phase will drop our econ to We must either expand econ now or mass levy to remove Isolated Exonomy. Unfortunately, mass levy would mean our wealth completely explodes next turn since we'll have no income and no actions, and our econ won't be much better. (It'll gain from the gulvalley integration and the refugee payouts, but that probably won't be enough to counteract the random losses we'll be taking)
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@ math people, what does it look like if we go mass levy and expand economy // do any of the options increase wealth? (I'd hope removing the isolated economy status would have helped that?)
 
Academia Nut said:
For one, the half-exiles were filling up with One God practitioners, which couldn't be a coincidence.
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Uh, guys? I think this has been passed over a bit. Understandable, what with Attila the Germophobe, but...
Christianity's big draw back in the day was that it promised a better life for those who lived shitty lives. We may have a big problem brewing here among our shittiest livers.
 
AN has already strongly implied that we're expected to lose territory to this nomad horde - while that doesn't make it a guarantee, it should be an indicator of the sort of threat we expect to face. I'm not confident that even full mobilization on our part would more than delay them, especially considering the logistical difficulties of deploying into the lowlands - not to mention the advantages their horses would have there. If we have to fight this, I'd rather do it on our own turf.

[X] [War] They're on their own(-1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, ???)

I'm not sure what our Reaction should be - we're bleeding stats in several directions, and I don't know enough of the math to weigh whether we need Econ or Stab more. I doubt we can afford to Study Health, though if we can then we definitely should, since keeping our stats up will again just be a delaying measure until we can find a proper solution.
 
ExNihilo said:
So, everyone's freaking out about Purity. It's bad, but if it helps Plague rolls, it'll be a godsend. And remember, traits can evolve. A proposed evolution:

Next to Godliness:
Staying clean and organized is vital to everyday Ymaryn life. [Synergises with LoA and PSoN]
Pros-Health rolls, boosted projects that involve cleanliness.
Cons-Dirty and unclean projects are more expensive.
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I personally hope it would evolve into something like this:

Itinerant Purity
Only through physical purity can spiritual purity be obtained, and it is the sacred duty of the Ymaryn to promote physical purity far and wide.
Pros: Bonus to resisting disease, Increased outward religion and culture spread, costs for health infrastructure lower.
Cons: Increased social stratification and "impure" discrimination. Itinerant preachers may cause diplomatic incidents with foreign polities.

Also, on an unrelated note...

WE ARE THE YMARYN, GODDAMMIT, AND WE WILL PREVAIL! SO LONG AS THE SYMPHONY STILL CALLS TO US, MAY WE FIND VICTORY AND PEACE UNDER CROW'S WINGS! INTO THE BREACH WE GO!!

[X] [War] Scramble everyone (Sends warriors east, Switches to Mass Levy policy and removes Isolated Economy status)
[X] [React] We need more fast scouts to counter the nomads! (Sec More Spiritbonded)
 
Rakuhn said:
In this case, doing something is likely to do far more damage to ourselves than our enemy. Let him take his free shot, wait for him to move into the critical range, and then hit him with everything we've got.
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While we lose Stability and Legitimacy the entire time.

We are at Stability 0 right now. This is not something we can just do.
 
PrimalShadow said:
If our solders have the plague, I think fighting the nomads gives them a chance to catch if from us. Yay?

Also, not sure that the plague kills enough people to really hurt an army. Losing 20% of your civilian population screws a nation; losing 20% of your army hurts a lot but is something that happens a bunch of the time on campaigns anyway, so I doubt it shuts the whole thing down.
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Most death in a military campaign is disease, not actual warfare. But I am pretty sure that losing 20% of your military capability is still catastrophic.
 
Sivantic said:
Lord's Loyalty also ensures that our Western Vassals remain with us. We lose them, we lose our Economy Tax.

Harmurri is a maybe, but Highland Kingdom is the hard point of hardpoints.
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We aren't getting an economy tax right now anyways. We can found a colony if the nomads purge the lowlands. We can diplomance our former western colonies if they break away (assuming they haven't already).

It'll take much, much longer to rebuild our aqueducts, our baths, our libraries, our ironworks, our markets, and our megaprojects. It'll take much longer to regain our values. Some of our legacies will be lost forever. With our population decimated, our forests will burn. They are what make us strong, not our vassals.
 
My mind telling me to abandon! But my body...
[X] [War] Scramble everyone (Sends warriors east, Switches to Mass Levy policy and removes Isolated Economy status)
[X] [React] We need more fast scouts to counter the nomads! (Sec More Spiritbonded)
...Is telling me to go to war!
 
You know I'm actually really curious as to how their khan is managing to keep the disease at bay despite the fact that his warriors are likely all but bathing in the blood of their enemies. Even if it turns out to be a parasite you'd think sooner or later that'd cause the whole horde to collapse.
 
Rakuhn said:
We aren't getting an economy tax right now anyways. We can found a colony if the nomads purge the lowlands. We can diplomance our former western colonies if they break away (assuming they haven't already).

It'll take much, much longer to rebuild our aqueducts, our baths, our libraries, our ironworks, our markets, and our megaprojects. It'll take much longer to regain our values. Some of our legacies will be lost forever. With our population decimated, our forests will burn. They are what make us strong, not our vassals.
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If the khan is allowed to build momentum across the lowlands unopposed, we will burn anyway. We cannot allow Txolla, the gateway to the core, to fall to the nomads-we have to stretch this out until he dies and then purge them wholesale.
 
Wiadi said:
not to mention the advantages their horses would have there. If we have to fight this, I'd rather do it on our own turf.
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I mean, even if we do end up losing some lowlands territory as AN implied is likely, that still seems like far from a sure thing to mean that we shouldn't fight there. Fighting there has the benefit of all the lowlands armies, better chance to suck the nomads into a disease quagmire instead of them outrunning it as they currently have been, plus starts hitting them with our kings legacies that will do stab damage to them.

It really depends on what our generals are planning to do if we send them in but it seems quite likely it could more useful than holding them in the core even if they end up mostly annihilated.
 
[X] [War] Scramble everyone (Sends warriors east, Switches to Mass Levy policy and removes Isolated Economy status)
[X] [React] We need more fast scouts to counter the nomads! (Sec More Spiritbonded)

May as well help cement it.

More than anything, we are not seeking to win against the Nomads. That is just not possible at this point in time. However look at how they are protecting themselves of the plague. They are burning everything to the ground and taking only what they need. This includes farms.

If we can get them to slow down and reap the consequences of their actions...in addition to being infected by our own warriors. They are going to feel it.

Rakuhn said:
We aren't getting an economy tax right now anyways. We can found a colony if the nomads purge the lowlands. We can diplomance our former western colonies if they break away (assuming they haven't already).

It'll take much, much longer to rebuild our aqueducts, our baths, our libraries, our ironworks, our markets, and our megaprojects. It'll take much longer to regain our values. Some of our legacies will be lost forever. With our population decimated, our forests will burn. They are what make us strong, not our vassals.
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We will if we remove our Isolated Economy by sending everyone. I do not find it likely as they will just take over the land themselves.

They have not thanks to Lord's Loyalty.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I'd rather get the chance to stop them and/or the chance to infect them over losing a bunch of stats and probably Lord's Loyalty to boot.
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You do not get to have your cake and eat it; instead you'll get stability ping for still losing vassals, lose Martial and open yourself up to attack into now unprotected heartland.
Chance to infect them is the only possible reason it might be remotely viable, and with Khan setting on fire everything that might be a disease I am not sure how useful it's going to be.

I mean.
Infecting his army would actually undermine his Legitimacy as scourge of god, perhaps even more effectively than winning/losing the battle or two; but that's banking on him being incapable to implement a quarantine, and if that fails, we are basically dead. It's worse than either Mass Levy (where we infect them too, but have more of a fighting chance) or abandoning vassals (good luck attacking me nomads I am behind 7 forested hills).
 
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