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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [MP] Next king is heroic admin or heroic mystic

[X] [R1] Only those you are mostly sure are safe (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, 3 triggers, 6 temp econ damage)


[X] [R2] Force them to settle in the shadow of your current population centers (Every trigger provides a Sec strength New Settlement - Internal Reorg action, 1 Disease roll, ???)

[X] [Mono] This isn't their fault, protect them (-1 Stability, ???)

With what resources you have, what do you do?
[X] [React] Attempt to figure the disease out (Sec Study Health)

NEED A MYSTIC HERO AND HEALTH STUDY
 
notgreat said:
Or we could maximize food efficiency to the limits of our education (where we're at now, or at least close to it) and then not push further until we've fixed the problem preemptively. We now face a tech drain every time we expand econ. This is fine. There is no need to take this problem and spend resources to make it worse for the sole purpose of making the problem worse. (And then giving us efficiency improvements once the problem is fixed)

We can just... Solve the problem now that it's a relevant problem? No need to make it a crisis?
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1. Well, yes? People IC won't care about artisans shortages - indeed, for some it can be an opportunity more than anything - but they will care about more food.
Eventually people IC will care, but, like....our king or governors do not see stats. They see reports of "there is some degree of strain in guilds as they need more workers and are not sure how to educate them all if this continues further" at best. Thus they pursue all the iron, if this is what annoys you.

I mean, even stats that we see, incomplete as they are, are still in some ways (not all though) way better and clear than what IC decision makers see. They do not see "we will have education crisis 4 turns later", they see "we can fucking feed all those people now" first.
And yes, we can solve it before it becomes a problem - by building Academy and Arsenal annexes most likely, maybe library too.

2. Oh, and "before it becomes a problem" is, sadly, not how society works. Society sees problem only when it is a problem more often than not; I am absolutely sure that as the mass education (relatively mass of course) becomes more and more of a problem people IC will notice it and start thinking about it/developing solutions. Get better education techniques for artisanlings, or something along those lines.


notgreat said:
I was trying to figure out how to succinctly rephrase/clarify my actual intent. First, yeah, every action has additional effects to some degree. ALL of them. Thus we can't really do too much evaluation between them because we can't know if they'll be positive or negative and to what degree. Heck there's a good chance the effects actually are down to a dice roll.

Secondly, as for the stats, there are many hidden stats, but the ones we have represent what they represent to a high degree of precision and accuracy. We do not have a city cleanliness stat, so we don't know it's going to be a problem until it becomes a problem. We know there are disease rolls but we don't know the details. Any set of actions could unlock new ones, I certainly wasn't expecting watchtowers to be unlocked from snail cultivation but that's what happened IIRC. It's nearly useless to try to predict these things.
We do, however, have stats for both skilled labor (tech) and raw manpower (econ). We can naturally overflow them at 1:1. Thus, building a structure for the sole purpose of doing forced, uncontrolled 1:1 transitions from one resource to another is... Rather stupid. If our Artisans can naturally improve food production by X, why should we spend time setting up infrastructure to make them improve food production by X? That just means that when they can't, things break, and it provides us with no actual improvements in overall civilization efficiency.
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Yes, stats that we have are remarkably clear compared to how messy actual data about annual food production or whatnot is IC.

Ironworks provide conceptually new infrastructure, which allows for mass employment of artisans. Previously those were just separate dudes working in their own houses or wherever, now it's a massive complex which allows them to work together and mass produce things. It is a big qualitative difference. That's like transition to manufactories or, later, factories in what it does.

And just like those, mass employment of specialists requires mass production of specialists.

So, we should invest in Ironworks because:
  • main: they are conceptually new approach to production which will have long lasting repercussions on how we even view idea of production - I suspect the very idea of "if we put those people together and provide tools and building for work they will work together and it's cool" is absolutely revolutionary and will soon (withing several centuries soon) propagate to other areas.
  • because working together will give people ideas; it's not manufactories yet, but it improves techniques and the like of the artisans by experience exchange and all
  • ironically enough, because it will force people to invent concept of (mass) education; it is going to be a big problem, but even bigger opportunity for us
PrimalShadow said:
"WRONG information in stats" = "stats are lying". If our colonies have a high loyalty stat but aren't actually loyal (as evidenced by them siding against us in civil war), that is them lying. If our Econ says that Ironworks make a significantly smaller contribution to productivity than makes any sense, then it is lying. If our stats miss something that isn't covered by them, that is merely incomplete information; not the same thing.
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Or maybe loyalty as a stat does not represent how loyal they would be in different circumstances. Same goes for Econ.

Oh, updaaaate.

.....
gooood fucking lord; the hell is this? Black Plague?

Also,
Academia Nut said:
Guild Reward: Academy!
Academy
All kings not suffering from hereditary disorders have their skills improved one level (cannot make non-heroic skills to heroic level) and increases the possibility of hero unit generation. Also provides the Build Academy action. Costs 1 Wealth/turn to maintain as an effective institution.

Choose a bonus for completing the Academy
[] [MP] New Social Value slot
[] [MP] Randomly upgrade a value
[] [MP] Unlock Philosopher Kings for further upgrades
[] [MP] Two free technologies (exploding)
[] [MP] Next king is heroic admin or heroic mystic
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Called the Academy!

[X] [MP] New Social Value slot
DIVISION OF POWER GET


[X] [R1] Only those you are mostly sure are safe (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, 3 triggers, 6 temp econ damage)
[X] [R2] Welcome in as best you can (EE exchanged for Econ as usual, every trigger causes a Disease roll)
Pls no pariahs.

[X] [Mono] This isn't their fault, protect them (-1 Stability, ???)
[X] [React] Attempt to figure the disease out (Sec Study Health)

Fair warning: this puts as at 0 Stability with 4 chances of loss. I am risking it because we, Ymaryn, are good at handling disease and refugees so I trust the chances to be low each time and thus extremely low in total, but it is a risk.

@Academia Nut , are we really still at Stability 2?

Also,
Academia Nut said:
Wealth 16/23 [-10]
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hahahah fuck.

DragonParadox said:
Guys take note of this:

Isolated Economy - Taking temp Econ damage equal to the number of True and Free Cities each phase

Not reach turn, each phase.

GG, it's over for the current civ. Time to plan for the survivors among the ruins.
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We have ~9 temp econ resistance and 24/24 Econ. This is doable.
 
DragonParadox said:
Guys take note of this:

Isolated Economy - Taking temp Econ damage equal to the number of True and Free Cities each phase

Not reach turn, each phase.

GG, it's over for the current civ. Time to plan for the survivors among the ruins.
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Our passive Econ policies now give 3 Econ each, and we currently have 2 stab in the bank.

Our cities are mostly intact, and we still have some things stored up.

I won't be surprised if Western Wall tries to break off or something similar, but I don't think this is an immediate Game Over.
 
@Academia Nut

Trelli Naval Dominance is probably not a thing any more.

Tech should be at 6(+8).

Tech income should get [-1] and Econ Income should get [+2] thanks to City Support being upgraded.

Also, with ZERO wealth income and expenses still being in place, we really want to pay Mercenaries from the general supply. We have the room for it; how do we make it happen?
 
Academia Nut said:
All kings not suffering from hereditary disorders have their skills improved one level (cannot make non-heroic skills to heroic level) and increases the possibility of hero unit generation
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HOLY SHIT that's really good!

I think we need to take the Hero king to mitigate some of this plague issue? Particularly hero mystic, but hero admin would help too.

Also, inb4 this is all biological warfare from ye Highlanders. Or at least, is due to different immunities meeting after long isolation.
 
Academia Nut said:
Horseman's Plague
A civilization killing plague, this monstrous new disease is disrupting all capacity to organize a major society, causing the following effects:
Halted Trade - No one is trading anything. All Wealth and Diplomacy income is shut down. Expenses still must be paid.
Rural Plague - Bizarrely the rural areas are worse off than the urban areas, so the demographic flow is not working as normal, with fields being abandoned. EE refunds for cities halved
Isolated Economy - Taking temp Econ damage equal to the number of True and Free Cities each phase
Plague Rotted Economy - Taking random amount of Econ damage each phase
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@Academia Nut Is Hunt Troublemakers- comb internally for criminals or plague victims?
Academia Nut said:
No one had the extensive network of sanitation, experts in medicine and magic, careful monitoring of all levels of society, distributed stockpiles of food, and enormous pre-existing abundance.
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No one else

right?
Ghostdevil said:
It could be worse? how!?
We have to be lucky not to lose next turn or the turn after!
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Read the update. Thanks to our dedication to community health our cities are actually what is is saving us as opposed to being absolute Nurgle Warpgates that cities are everywhere else.
 
Notice that even the Khemetri have gotten fucked, and that every polity around us either gave up their land near us or outright collapsed like poor Trelli did.

If we manage to survive this intact, we will be able to take advantage of the fact that everyone around us has collapsed in on themselves.
 
fictionfan said:
Is there any of these that could save us?
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Probably the Heroic king? Anyway:

[X] [MP] Next king is heroic admin or heroic mystic
[X] [R1] Only those you are mostly sure are safe (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, 3 triggers, 6 temp econ damage)
[X] [R2] Force them to settle in the shadow of your current population centers (Every trigger provides a Sec strength New Settlement - Internal Reorg action, 1 Disease roll, ???)
[X] [React] Attempt to figure the disease out (Sec Study Health)
[X] [React] Search for a cure (Sec Expand Forest)
Not sure what to do about the heretics though.
 
[] [MP] Next king is heroic admin or heroic mystic

we need a smart ass to deal with this kind of shit or to keep us from exploding
 
ctulhuslp said:
1. We managed to avoid panic and noticed it early. That's amazing.
2. We are somehow still alive and at Stability 2. During mass quarantine and plague ravaging the land. Stability 2. This is legit hilarious.
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Academia Nut said:
Stability 2/3 (optimistic)
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Academia Nut said:
(optimistic)
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"Hey, millions may die from this super plague, but at least we have that Academy, eh?
 
fictionfan said:
Is there any of these that could save us?
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....
I want to push for social slot, but AN explicitly mentioned medics in academies.

Tech rolls + Study Health can save us. They can at least help us a lot. Thanks for reminder.
Or heroic mystic or admin, come to think of it.

[X] [MP] Two free technologies (exploding)
[X] [MP] Next king is heroic admin or heroic mystic
Approval vote via fishing for solution to plague or administrative improvement in how 2 quarantine.

[X] [R1] Only those you are mostly sure are safe (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, 3 triggers, 6 temp econ damage)
[X] [R2] Welcome in as best you can (EE exchanged for Econ as usual, every trigger causes a Disease roll)

[X] [Mono] This isn't their fault, protect them (-1 Stability, ???)
[X] [React] Attempt to figure the disease out (Sec Study Health)

Ghostdevil said:
If we somehow pull through, the disease would have genocided the Trelli FOR US, so no need to deal with the Culture when we take over
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....
That's both true and amusingly ruthless. Are you Lailoken in disguise?
 
Hmmm

@Academia Nut if Western Ymaryn basically collapsed from the plague, how are Western Wall and Greenshore holding up?

Are they in any danger of collapse?
Do we know if any of our subordinates are in critical danger of collapse?
 
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