That said, we are very far off topic So how about we speculate about...i dont know, what intrigue options we'll unlock, since we didn't go with any random tech ups or the like?
I think the suppress options will evolve and achieve more granularity. Depending on how intrigue works, i.e is a resource stat or works like Martial and Naval then we may see that we have actions to generate it but not a lot to spend it. There will probably be a "Send intrigue group to X Country".
Like I could easily see a "setup spy network" action ala Crusader Kings II.
I think the suppress options will evolve and achieve more granularity. Depending on how intrigue works, i.e is a resource stat or works like Martial and Naval then we may see that we have actions to generate it but not a lot to spend it. There will probably be a "Send intrigue group to X Country".
Like I could easily see a "setup spy network" action ala Crusader Kings II.
I think the suppress options will evolve and achieve more granularity. Depending on how intrigue works, i.e is a resource stat or works like Martial and Naval then we may see that we have actions to generate it but not a lot to spend it. There will probably be a "Send intrigue group to X Country".
Like I could easily see a "setup spy network" action ala Crusader Kings II.
Makes sense. I am thinking that "naturally" it would be much more outward focused, with internal actions being very "stop schemes from other nations" rather than "mess with internal politics", especially given it comes from diplo and not at all from culture, but given the circumstances, i could see our initial intrigue "unlocks" being more internal focused.
I'm still thinking there might be a "cause dissent" option to try and lower another civs stab, given some of the stab hits we took that we weren't 100% sure on their source, and the knowledge that hte HK is intrigue heavy. But if so, i imagine it must be at least one of 1. expensive, 2. low odds to succeed 3 high risks of failure (though not getting caught probably given we never got a hint about it) and 4. requires values or social tech to unlock, given how powerful it would be otherwise, especially with our PiA ability.
We trade them some plant they lack; we are more often than not better farmers, so this benefits us.
Like, "not willing to trade" in trading mostly means "name a better price", with the exception of groundbreaking techs like iron or steel...and looking at how Metalworkers got iron from us via traders, even in such cases trade eventually works.
Thing is, we are poorly specced for spycraft and well-specced for either trading or accepting refugees, one of whom may well be carrying seeds with him. Trying to aggresively spy is not impossible, but it is a poor use of our time considering that our strengths lie waaay elsewhere.
I can't wait for the development of the intrigue stat to allow us to create a state intellectual apparatus with which we can enforce justice and order upon our society.
Indeed. If we had gotten Intrigue earlier, much much earlier, we could have actively vampired people. Which is kinda a doomsday scenario for anyone who isnt the HK. And the HK are only resistant to that since what could happen is that we send a dissent action and they also get hit by something else, though this is very rare.
It's also kinda a dick move, so I am less enthused by the idea. I do think that Intrigue is not going to be super strong, because we are in the Iron Age and travel sucks. I expect our reaching out to other countries via this method will be very difficult and costly.
I'm a little worried about the narrative of unlocking intrigue mid crisis, really. Hopefully we don't have to deal with someone trying to assassinate the prophet or similar.
Indeed. If we had gotten Intrigue earlier, much much earlier, we could have actively vampired people. Which is kinda a doomsday scenario for anyone who isnt the HK. And the HK are only resistant to that since what could happen is that we send a dissent action and they also get hit by something else, though this is very rare.
It's also kinda a dick move, so I am less enthused by the idea. I do think that Intrigue is not going to be super strong, because we are in the Iron Age and travel sucks. I expect our reaching out to other countries via this method will be very difficult and costly.
Well, if nothing else, we've certainly got a lot of actions to spend on "difficult and costly" if need be
Like, i dont think its sunk in even for me how amazing it'll be, but next turn we'll have 2 extra player actions, 1 extra province action, and 2 extra guild actions.
We'll have 1 main and 4 secondaries (or actually probably 2 mains, 2 secondaries, since AN wants to avoid too too many individual actions) for our personal actions. Our provinces will get 5 secondaries, one of which gets doubled by law. And we'll get 2 mains for guild actions.
In retrospect with 2 guild mains a turn we probably wont have much problem getting extra warships...i will note that many of the guild actions, especially those that dont cost econ expansion, no longer give much or any stat increases, thanks to Artisan Games, instead "just" giving innovation chances. So it wont be perfect for getting our stats back up. If we dont care about econ expansion, plant poppies gives +5 net stats (for 3 econ expansion/LTE). Porcelein works and glassworks both give net +2 stats once our tech refund comes in, though they each cost a sustainable forest. The only guild action that gives a pure stats profit without costing EE or forests is Snails, which only gives +1! At least for mains, i didn't check secondaries...but thats all that matters since our guild actions are only mains for now. So actually artisan games makes getting overall stats out of our guild actions much harder, since all of the innovation actions used to give +1 stat overall before the wealth cost increase. Still, once we build our stats back up we can crank out innovations for overall stat neutral actions, or we bump up forest room super quickly for only 4 stats for 3 forest slots after refund.
Still, once we build our stats back up we can crank out innovations for overall stat neutral actions, or we bump up forest room super quickly for only 4 stats for 3 forest slots after refund.
Well isn't a case that that neutrality is a bit of a false neutrality(like a false vacuum), as when we are not maxed all the stats differentiate back into themselves? And in our current situation, not a lot of them are going to be maxed?
Well isn't a case that that neutrality is a bit of a false neutrality(like a false vacuum), as when we are not maxed all the stats differentiate back into themselves? And in our current situation, not a lot of them are going to be maxed?
This is true. Again i suppose i've gotten too used to our recent situation of "ehh, not much difference".
Still though, aside from econ i think we should have much trouble getting things maxed out again, and honestly we should probably switch back to balanced policy at some point anyway, and then we'll have a main expand econ a turn.
Speaking of policies, we also might want to think about lowering our number of forest policies, after we pass the yeoman quest, now that we have kiln tech, and multiple guild actions a turn, and relatively low EE--getting forests by policy is great, but at the same time it means we lose EE for each one, instead of using Expand forest, which is a net +1 LTE and a study action, or kilns, which while somewhat expensive gives a lot of forests in an action, is a guild action and so easy to fit into a plan if needed, doesn't take LTE, and gives "other effects"
Plus its not like a single secondary is going to be as valuable as it used to be. We can much easier afford to spend secondaries on things like changing policy or founding free cities or integrating subjects, and so on, now, i'd say.
Edit: Of course, we also have things like palace annexes, salterns, and aqueducts that would be nice to do that cost secondaries. We're up to 9/18 annex slots and 6/11 city slots with the new provinces, even, and more of both can be very powerful...
Speaking of policies, we also might want to think about lowering our number of forest policies, after we pass the yeoman quest, now that we have kiln tech, and multiple guild actions a turn, and relatively low EE--getting forests by policy is great, but at the same time it means we lose EE for each one, instead of using Expand forest, which is a net +1 LTE and a study action, or kilns, which while somewhat expensive gives a lot of forests in an action, is a guild action and so easy to fit into a plan if needed, doesn't take LTE, and gives "other effects"
Plus its not like a single secondary is going to be as valuable as it used to be. We can much easier afford to spend secondaries on things like changing policy or founding free cities or integrating subjects, and so on, now, i'd say.
Definitely want a vassal support policy, yeah. With our new internal expansion opportunities, current need for EE, and most importantly the reasons behind our current crisis, however, i'm drawn to a policy i'd forgotten existed: Expansion (So long as there is land to expand into, +1 Econ Expansion/turn, reduces threshold to produce new provinces the longer active).
So yeah, i'd say as soon as we finish the yeoman quest--either turn after next, or this turn if we spend a guild action on a kiln, or a regular action on expand forest i guess?, we spend a secondary to switch 2 forest policies to 1 vassal, 1 expansion.
...Though now that i think about it...we'll have an extra true city this turn, from integrating western wall and having so little EE and so be getting an extra policy anyway... Hmm...
[X][Crisis] Disavow them, they are on their own (-5 Martial, -1 Legitimacy, potential for war with the Storm Tribes, Crisis Continues)
[X][AG] Gain a permanent Passive Innovation Policy (2 extra innovation rolls, -1 Wealth/turn)
[X][Main] Influence Subordinate - Thunder Speakers
[X][Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X][Secondary] Integrate Colony - Western Wall
[X][Guild] More Warships
Provinces – [Main] Plant Cotton, [Sec] Trade Mission – Harmurri, [Sec] Trade Mission – Mountain Horse, [Sec] Sailing Mission – Pirates
Policies – Sacred Shore Governor's Palace (9/9), Blackmouth Aqueduct (3/6), Significant Walls (21/46)
FC – Redshore (Innovation), Redhills (Wealth)
Western – [Main] New Settlement, [Main] Build Watchtowers, [Sec] Build Walls
Greenshore – [Main] Plant Cotton, [Main] Support Artisans
Gulvalley – [Main] New Settlement
Heaven's Hawk – [Sec] Black Soil, [Sec] Build Watermills
Txolla – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Wall
Thunder Speakers – [Main] New Settlement
Thunder Horse – [Main] New Settlement
Amber Road – [Sec] Library, [Sec] Raise Army
[X][GA Diplo] Unlock Intrigue (-10 Diplo, +5 Intrigue)
[X][GA EE] Land Reform (-10 EE, -1 Stability, +2 Provinces, new internal settlement locations)
[X][GA Mars] Gain new Holy Order (-8 Martial, -5 Mysticism)
[X][GA Wealth] None
[X][GA Cult] Remove Nemesis Fashion (-10 Culture)
[X][GA Tech] Begin Ironworks in its own action track (-3 Tech, -3 Culture, Costs of project, automatically completes 1 action towards project a turn, this turn included)
Organizational
Centralization 2
Hierarchy 7
Religious Authority 8
Statuses King of the Hill: You are the most prestigious polity around, gaining you +1 Diplomacy a turn, but all other groups gain the 'Take the Crown' casus belli
Efficient Economy: +1 Wealth/turn while above Econ 10 Moderate Pirate Presence - Losing 2 Wealth/turn from trade due to pirate raids Urban Plague - Outside of the capital and free cities, the major urban centers have been largely abandoned due to plague, will begin repopulating one a turn, assuming EE sufficiently low Second Son Crisis - Lesser warriors are flowing outward, attacking outsiders and risk bringing retribution to the rest of the People. They must be reined in, but once the seed of the frontier has been planted it is hard to uproot. Causes trouble each turn, may end on its own but can be definitively ended with: Max Legitimacy? and 2 of (Max Cent?, ???, ???); or a Civil War
Fuming, the king declared that any who wished to ignore the orders of the king to return and cease their warring on outsiders was to be straight up exiled, forsaking the protections of the People. This did not go particularly well with a lot of people, and to some extent it encouraged further abandonment by disgruntled warriors. While fortunately they didn't actually draw the ire of the Storm Tribes upon all of the People, that was mostly because they didn't quite infringe upon any territory they cared about, and these breakaway warriors were able to carve out their own little bit of territory in the far north-west, outside the control of the king. This was not ideal, especially as it was likely to draw in more renegades in the future, but from the traders the leadership of the Storm Tribes at least seemed to understand that these conquered tribes were distinct from the People.
Seeking to see if part of the root cause - the eternal desire for more land to farm by the farmers - the king funded something of a survey by the clerks and proclaimers going around proclaiming the king's glory to try to counter the disruption the renegades were causing. It was discovered that current land management needed work, and that the People could fit many more farms, orchards, pastures, and forests into the same space. It would be rather disruptive, but they would be able to found a number of new settlements internally at a later date, and the cities could absorb some of the surplus of farmers while the disruption occurred.
Although speaking of the cities... ugh. The artisan games had been wracked by a corruption scandal, as it had come out that some of the upper level management had been colluding or bribing royal asessors to give benefits to favoured workshops or punish skilled but unruly master artisans. The whole thing was a mess that caused more than a little embarrassment and actively hindered the intent of the games, but somewhat fortunately the most significant games were held at Redshore, and the mayor of the city did not take kindly to that sort of thing.
Like, the man was corrupt as fuck himself, but things that reflected poorly on his city had him bring down the hammer so hard he handed information over to the king. Actually, more than that, he ended up revealing a deep web of contacts and spies throughout the kingdom that his ancestors had cultivated and he had inherited. While he obviously wanted recompense for this, the value he brought was too significant to turn up one's nose or censure him too harshly. When asked about the old stories of the 'Shadow King', he said that those were old rumours of the little shadow conflict between his ancestors and Highlander spies before the Highlanders retreated into seclusion in paranoid fear.
Weird.
Meanwhile the Amber Road trading post up north was making a big push to get the forests of their bitingly cold territory figured out, leading them essentially import all of the knowledge from Sacred Forest into their own temple and library complex. If only all subordinates could be as helpful, the Thunder Speakers were... not exactly acting up, but they definitely were more than a little suspicious of all the advisors being sent to them. More than that, if the intent was to nip the religious developments of Qybrkyn, that definitely failed.
But, perhaps it failed for the best.
Organized Religion Founded!
Mylathadysm - "Seekers of Truth"
Virtues: Humility, Contemplation, Community
Values: To Be Determined By Reactions
Qybrkyn's teachings had spread like wildfire in the east, among the populations that had been absorbed from the Thunder Horse and Thunder Speakers, who had almost entirely lacked the major urban centers of the core territory of the People and thus were happy to listen to people telling them that the greedy city dwellers should abandon much of their wealth and embrace simplicity and community in rural settings. Their universalist teachings also appealed to people who had different groupings of gods from the People but who also acknowledged the strength of the People's gods to bring about good and ill - the way Qybrkyn and his disciples told it the truth had to be more abstract that the descriptions that people gave to the gods, that there was an ultimate truth behind the various names and titles people stuck on things. While this angered many of the priests, some were accepting of the ideas. In particular the more esoteric priests who made Crow the center of their worship and contemplation found the idea resonant with them: Crow was alien but knowable, so perhaps there was a layer behind the attributes they had already given, a deeper layer of knowing.
Had that been all, that would have been disruptive enough, but then the gods seemed to agree with these new priests. Some said that it was just a consequence of the reshuffle of land shoving some people into cities that weren't ready for them. Some said that the act angered the gods. Others claimed that taking the gift of a century of peace and prosperity and abusing it to make war far away had finally brought about a reckoning. And finally, that in ignoring Qybrkyn the People had invited the doom he had tried to warn them about. Whatever happened, when the summer fevers came one year they spread quickly among the crowded urban centers and then persisted.
Hundreds... thousands... tens of thousands... hundreds of thousands?! Soon enough counting the dead became impossible as the plagues were killing people in such numbers that they didn't have the manpower to take out the dead, turning urban districts into dead zones filled with rot and decay that people fled from desperately. The inevitable fires that came from unattended buildings added to the casualties and made counting the damage impossible, but also helped clear out the disease. Only Valleyhome, Redshore, and Redhills - better administered and with more sophisticated hygiene schemes - maintained themselves as anything other than shells like the other major centers were reduced to. While these places were often the most condemned by the Mylathads for their corrupting influence and thus their relative success stole some of the power of their words, the plagues certainly caused the new way of viewing the world to spread quickly, people seeking answers that other priests were having difficulty in giving them.
Golden Age Ended by Plague and Crisis! Legacies Gained Hollowed Gold: Gilded Ages accessible early Pure Gold: Prestige Golden Age bonuses possible whenever roll Golden Wonders: Megaprojects and Wonder construction tracks always possible during Golden Ages
With the south a bit of a mess even before the plagues, Amber Road had been pursuing an increase in the number of warriors to protect them from the potential for a nomad band to roll through while the south was distracted, only to stumble upon something via necessity. Reliant almost entirely upon local manpower, the trading post had begun successfully bringing in tribal warriors from the far north, only instead of directly integrating them the People just improved their weapons and let them maintain their own skillsets while the warriors stationed at the post focused more on fighting with heavier gear to compensate for having only a few men who fought like that but plenty of money to buy them the best gear.
And in the core territories, there was another revolution. Riding horses had been around for centuries, but militarily the chariot still dominated. Horses were too small and skittish to really fight from atop their backs as anything other than an accident or desperation move while performing scouting or courier duty, but a number of priests who had devoted themselves to the study of the animal world had begun a curious process. There were a very small number of warriors, who through careful attention and bonding with their animals, were able to have such communion with the horses they rode that they could actually control their mounts in battle. No easy task, it required years and years of training just to be able to bond with and train the animals, to say nothing of the actual fighting, which was almost suicidally insane from horseback if you didn't know exactly what you were doing. However, from what the Spiritbonded did to a few bandits that tried to hassle a caravan they attached themselves to on a training mission, the results of all that training of man and beast were considerable.
People have been fleeing the cities, prompting more gardening
[] [PSN] Sec Expand Forests (-1 Centralization + Costs)
[] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[] [PSN] Sec Expand Economy (-1 Centralization + Costs)
[] [PSN] Main Expand Economy (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[] [PSN] Sec Plant Cotton (-1 Centralization + Costs)
[] [PSN] Main Plant Cotton (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[] [PSN] Nothing
What to do about the new religious movement?
[] [Religion] Widespread embrace (-2 RA, -1 Legitimacy, -1 Stability, ???)
[] [Religion] Give them a temple somewhere out of the way (-1 Net RA, -3 Econ and Culture, ???)
[] [Religion] Priests can debate priests and hash it out (???)
[] [Religion] Suppress them (Civil War, ends crisis)
What else to do?
[] [React] Main Proclaim Glory
[] [React] Main Hunt Troublemakers (-1 Intrigue, -2 Wealth, 0 to +1 Stability, information on problems)
[] [React] Main More Warships
[] [React] Support Ironworks (3/5-8? actions complete)
[] [React] Main Study Metal
[] [React] Main Plant Cotton
[] [React] Main Expand Forests
[] [React] Main Distribute Land
Patricians (4) - Objective: Distribute Land within 1 turns. Success: +1 Stability Guild (3) - Objective: Lead in a textile type good within 1 turns. Success: Free random technology, Failure: -4 Wealth Traders (3) - Objective: Have Naval Power above 5 within 2 turns. Success: Free tech advance Yeomen (3)- Objective: Have 8 or more forest slots unoccupied within 1 turns. Success: +2 Econ Priests (2*)- Objective: Build an Observatory within 2 turns. Success: Astrology rolls revealed for 5 turns Urban Poor (1)- Objective: Found a new Free City within 2 turns. Failure: -1 Stability These counters iterate at the next mid-turn. The numbers in brackets indicate the general faction strength.
