I don't know where the 4 year came from but I have to go to work now, so I won't be able to answer further.


Building Settlements allows us to develop new land that is outside our current village's range. As of now we have maxed out farming development in our villages and thus require more settlements to do more.
 
This problem is common on this thread, I think people are speed reading the posts of others and are misunderstanding because of it.
Advancing technology means there cannot be a peak/prime, such as when boats improve the size of a settlement fishing supports will also increase.
Settlements however will grow to match the point of diminishing returns
 
Settlements however will grow to match the point of diminishing returns
But that is not a fixed size, better technology means the point of diminishing returns occurs later.

Growth is not a fixed rate, it could grow quickly and in a turn or two reach the biggest size current tech can support, or it could take ten turns.
 
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Prime = Land reaches full utilization. AN had said a lot of the mechanics are intentionally masked, and that settlements pay out over multuple turns, with the first payment being on the next turn.

As we have rarely made settlements, its very hard to give you the kind of solid information you are looking for, ESPECIALLY when AN also said that the returns of economy boosting actions are not linear, and going especially high or especially low is unusually difficult.
And if you had said that from the beginning, I wouldn't be nearly as frustrated as I am!

I'm not arguing with you or telling you you're wrong, all I wanted to know was why you said what you did, and how that effects us.

This post finally answers it. You're telling me you consider a settlement to have reached it's prime after ~5 turns, because previous experience showed via subtle change in text that further natural growth begins to slow.

You cannot tell me what exactly it means for a settlement to reach it's prime because the mechanics are obscure, but it's possible that land-based economy actions become less efficient at that point, while other actions such as crafting becomes more efficient, where 'efficient' means bonuses or penalties to success or scope of an action during its die roll.

Is this correct? Did I miss or misunderstand anything? Can I stop bashing my head against this wall in frustration now?
 
But that is not a fixed size, better technology means the point of diminishing returns occurs later.

Growth is not a fixed rate, it could grow quickly and in a turn or two reach the biggest size current tech can support, or it could take ten turns.
Growth is mostly population rising and working more lands as manpower goes up though.
And if you had said that from the beginning, I wouldn't be nearly as frustrated as I am!

I'm not arguing with you or telling you you're wrong, all I wanted to know was why you said what you did, and how that effects us.

This post finally answers it. You're telling me you consider a settlement to have reached it's prime after ~5 turns, because previous experience showed via subtle change in text that further natural growth begins to slow.

You cannot tell me what exactly it means for a settlement to reach it's prime because the mechanics are obscure, but it's possible that land-based economy actions become less efficient at that point, while other actions such as crafting becomes more efficient, where 'efficient' means bonuses or penalties to success or scope of an action during its die roll.

Is this correct? Did I miss or misunderstand anything? Can I stop bashing my head against this wall in frustration now?
Yes. More or less.

Replies are often limited due to doing all this via mobile
 
Quick question:
How large is the territory that we control?
How much of the hills do we actually control?
How advanced is our writing at this point?
 
Because I'm genuinely curious and I want to test the new tally feature - have a tally!
Adhoc vote count started by BlueFlamingWings on Mar 29, 2017 at 11:41 AM, finished with 10530 posts and 64 votes.
 
Oh, for the love of

Yes, there is a chance that Main Settlement gives Econ by itself. Econ secondary costs nothing and reduces crowding as well as providing another area for people to develop. That's what it means to provide more Econ over time.

No I didn't remember the exact wording and thus had to spend time brute searching for it, but it is there.
lol no shit

Quick question:
How large is the territory that we control?
How much of the hills do we actually control?
How advanced is our writing at this point?
As large as ST, smaller than nomads and the "controlled" aka raided area of DP. Smaller but signicantly better managed than WC.
We farm maybe 1/5 of the hills we control, almost entirely in the valley, which is like 1/2 farmland, the rest are managed but not farmed. Total hills including those controlled by WC is unknown, but they're not in our mountain-sandwiched area.
logographic w/ nonbasic symbols (eg we can say cow) but presumably not at the point of being literature-capable.
 
Do we have any idea how large these areas are in absolute terms?
Also what do people think it would take to improve our writing?
 
Do we have any idea how large these areas are in absolute terms?
Also what do people think it would take to improve our writing?
On writing: more stuff and more kind to count, mostly.
To expand: there's a line of thought saying that doing things like Study Forest or Survey Land as a main will level up writing because we'll encounter more species and have more knowledge (e.g.more complex ecological webs, a map denoting the quality of land in different places) to keep track of and pass on, this will lead to more nouns and verbs being created and a higher reliance on writing to transfer knowledge - thus leading to more use, more words, and more comfort with using writing for other purposes.
 
Wait, why the thread is so silent? Where is incessant bickering and constant arguing?

On that note, what do people think study forest will do?

No idea; BEEES, maybe, or interesting plants, or interesting species, or interesting type...OH SHIT

Maybe we can't do boats because we haven't studied all possible trees and which ones are better material for which tasks?
 
To expand: there's a line of thought saying that doing things like Study Forest or Survey Land as a main will level up writing because we'll encounter more species and have more knowledge (e.g.more complex ecological webs, a map denoting the quality of land in different places) to keep track of and pass on, this will lead to more nouns and verbs being created and a higher reliance on writing to transfer knowledge - thus leading to more use, more words, and more comfort with using writing for other purposes.
What? That's the first time I heard that theory.
 
What? That's the first time I heard that theory.
Well, at least Umi seems to be thinking that way.

Also, AN has already confirmed we just need to take the project until the dice decide to play nice. Seaside settlement may or may not help.

Yes, I've seen that, but, honestly, if studying forests entails studying which trees are better for which purpose, that's a nice bonus to carts and boats. Granted, that's a big 'if', so...
 
Well, at least Umi seems to be thinking that way.

Yes, I've seen that, but, honestly, if studying forests entails studying which trees are better for which purpose, that's a nice bonus to carts and boats. Granted, that's a big 'if', so...
??? How do y'all not remember? B4 the war ppl were always going "oh, we should expand the holy places and give them shit to do so writing will develop out of necessity" and one of the arguments for doing study forest was that it would benefit writing.

Go and check, if you don't believe me.
 
Yes, I've seen that, but, honestly, if studying forests entails studying which trees are better for which purpose, that's a nice bonus to carts and boats. Granted, that's a big 'if', so...
The People already know that though.
??? How do y'all not remember? B4 the war ppl were always going "oh, we should expand the holy places and give them shit to do so writing will develop out of necessity" and one of the arguments for doing study forest was that it would benefit writing.

Go and check, if you don't believe me.
Do you remember who said it or what page? That's a lot to look through
 
What? That's the first time I heard that theory.
Same, but it's not a bad theory and, well, we were planning on taking them anyways.

I'm looking to do some analysis, rather than actual circular arguments, so, in terms of tech and structure, how are we?
Basic Econ-Perfectly fine, we only need econ to fund various projects. We should start trying to find ways to take actions that don't spend econ unless we genuinely want to expand something.

Basic Martial-Not great, but not bad. The bigger problem is we have rather war like neighbors, but our biggest advantage here is expand forest being basically a combination econ and fortification action. That doesn't advance military tech, though.

Basic Diplomacy- Honestly, rather crap at the moment. We effectively have no tech here and our connections are only really with the purpose of hurting the dead priests at the moment. Establishing at least one trade mission with the nomads while we are friends with their current ruler could go a long way to improving this. Especially since we're basically using them as mercenaries to wipe out the Dead Priests in the Lowlands. Seeing if we can further incorporate the WC might also be a good idea, but perhaps we should work on physically expanding towards them before pushing it much farther?

Stability is bad, as we all know.

Centralization is pretty good for the era, but not good for us at the moment. The grand canal actually would probably boost this by a rather noticeable amount, so I am in favor of that project for that reason.

Hierarchy is good at the moment, perhaps even a bit high for what we want, but I don't want to go looking to lower or raise it.

Art- Is very undeveloped and unused, even if high in number. I think we should start seeing if trade missions use it and push our culture onto the nomads and WC more in an attempt to integrate them. This is probably worth the econ to establish the basics of, as it will improve our ability to consolidate people by quite a bit.

Mysticism- Is likewise undeveloped, if high in number. I propose that we start expanding our military through sacred warriors and blackbird actions when we next want to. We also really need to expand the places to the spirits to allow for more elders and training of people in general. I feel like this is definitely worth the econ hit.

That's all the stats we're aware of. I feel like the only thing we should really be spending econ on in the near future should be the grand canal for centralization, festivals for art tech and stability, and expand places to spirits for mysticism tech and hopefully the basics of education.
 
The People already know that though.

Do you remember who said it or what page? That's a lot to look through
lmfao, nvm. At least r.e. study forest, when briefly skimming the post-blight section of posts, I'm the first person to bring it up on p. 279, probably based on prev. comments on SF leading to science and intellectual thought and etc.

R.e. necessity = language, look at PoM and ppl arguing w/ him over shrines, writing, and bureaucracy.
 
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Well, at least Umi seems to be thinking that way.

Yes, I've seen that, but, honestly, if studying forests entails studying which trees are better for which purpose, that's a nice bonus to carts and boats. Granted, that's a big 'if', so...

We don't know what study forest entails, but presumably it gives us something cool and neat.
 
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