Paths of Civilization

Ghostdevil · Mar 28, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Fay-gur-thin.

ohhh....
DAMN IT now you made me feel dumb

Seriously though, thx

Sivantic · Mar 28, 2017

Unfortunately it doesn't look like we got any tech from the immigration

Econ 8 is still pretty boss though. Still a little agape about it actually...

ctulhuslp said:
Do not forget that our fishing is screwed over by distances; we need a new coastal village to be able to expand it.
But we definitely need to wall lower valley settlement, because Dead Priests, so...

True, but is it something we want to do right now? Or what project do we need to take before Canal?

Academia Nut said:
Pretty high, will be addressed during the next main turn, which I am not putting up because what favour you get from the nomads is going to massively influence what options you have for the next main turn.

oh... so yes on the seaside settlement then.

Rrrgh, now I don't know what to pick for the favor so doing a quick undo vote until I can be convinced one way or another

[X] Undo

Omegahugger · Mar 28, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Feygurthyn and the assembled shamans looked at the manic glee and excitement on the man's face and he said, "Those who worked metal already blessed it, but I knew that to complete this weapon required the input of the most powerful shamans in the world; I just wasn't sure if it was the Spirit Talkers or the Ymrri. I suppose the spirits have given me the answer.

They most certainly have, our Shamans are way better than anything those cavemen have available. A shame we couldn't get some proper treenouns unto the weapon, though.

I like this guy, he knows the importance both of Spirits and people more educated than him. I could defininitely buy him actually being descended from Gygoya, which is still a very real possibility.
(I also like how our own people went "fuck spelling Gwygoytha" and made it simpler over time)

Sightsear · Mar 28, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Ymrri

FINALLY, our people have a name that isn't People! Screw you cultural-centrism!

Also, @Academia Nut if we chuck out Sacred War, do we lose the ability to create Sacred Warriors, or will the idea hang around even without it? Or are you going to be insufferably coy about that, because you think it would effect the decision making process way too much?

Oh, and the Nomads improved the Chariots again. They keep doing that, don't they?

2750

Marlin · Mar 28, 2017

[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] Northern Nomads (Probably gain Honour Value)

The contact is the most valuable because this is something that will be generational. The guarantee of safe passage for generations is invaluable.

tryrar · Mar 28, 2017

Sivantic said:
Unfortunately it doesn't look like we got any tech from the immigration

Econ 8 is still pretty boss though. Still a little agape about it actually...

True, but is it something we want to do right now? Or what project do we need to take before Canal?

oh... so yes on the seaside settlement then.

Rrrgh, now I don't know what to pick for the favor so doing a quick undo vote until I can be convinced one way or another

[X] Undo

Well, Unless we ram ourselves back into the war immediately next turn, having the Nomads fight for us is only marginally useful. Sure THEM fighting means we don't fight(and run into Sacred War lock), but they probably won't make much more of an impact than we have so far unless we join them in raiding. Whereas if they lead us to the metalworkers, we can get tech and finished goods from them that jumpstarts our metalworking and allows us to out-tech the DPs to where we might be able to smash them.

Tylonius · Mar 28, 2017

Ghostdevil said:
@Academia Nut
I have realized a fatal flaw in this quest....
I CAN'T PRONOUNCE any of the NAMES!
Jesus Christ!
Feygurthyn
how THE HELL DO YOU SAY THAT

Incorrectly.

tryrar · Mar 28, 2017

Ok, I'm off to bed. If a vote comes up that requires a tiebreaker before I wake up, I vote for whichever gets us stability

Katsuragi · Mar 28, 2017

[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] Northern Nomads (Probably gain Honour Value)

ctulhuslp · Mar 28, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Pretty high, will be addressed during the next main turn, which I am not putting up because what favour you get from the nomads is going to massively influence what options you have for the next main turn.

Hm.
Okay, let's see. How favors shape choices?
[] There is much glory to fighting in the south
Will probably give us a breather from DPs and/or allies to participate in war with, especially since WC are almost dead and ST are not that good at fighting DPs.
-[] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
Leery about letting them access our lands, but...
-[] The easiest pass through to the south is the Spirit Talkers, and they did insult you...
Ehh. Maybe, but logistics will make nomadic contribution to the war shitty, and we need ST to distract DP.
[] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
LIMITED TIME FRAME OF RELEVANCE, WHICH MAKES MAINING TRADE MISSION MANDATORY BECAUSE OF TURN LENGTH. But pretty good because metalworking.
[] Have you a piece of the star for us?
....seems useless? I am not seeing the point.

Academia Nut · Mar 28, 2017

Sightsear said:
Oh, and the Nomads improved the Chariots again. They keep doing that, don't they?

They keep building them and going "This design seems like it could be improved". Admittedly, at the moment chariots rather than carts are hard to make properly.

ctulhuslp · Mar 28, 2017

Academia Nut said:
They keep building them and going "This design seems like it could be improved". Admittedly, at the moment chariots rather than carts are hard to make properly.

They still have invented cool wheels.
But, like, if voters promise to agree with Maining trade route, then I am all for choosing safe passage and contacts with metalworkers; otherwise, allows them passage to Dead Priests.

Sivantic · Mar 28, 2017

tryrar said:
Well, Unless we ram ourselves back into the war immediately next turn, having the Nomads fight for us is only marginally useful. Sure THEM fighting means we don't fight(and run into Sacred War lock), but they probably won't make much more of an impact than we have so far unless we join them in raiding. Whereas if they lead us to the metalworkers, we can get tech and finished goods from them that jumpstarts our metalworking and allows us to out-tech the DPs to where we might be able to smash them.

The thing is if we let them pass through our lands then there is a good chance we can take their tech for ourselves. We Also have the option of Survey Land to do our own ores and do something that way so actually

[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands

This also allows another buffer between us and the Death Priests as well as someone for the Nomads to fight and also tempt some of them to stay in our land since it is so rich

ctulhuslp said:
LIMITED TIME FRAME OF RELEVANCE, WHICH MAKES MAINING TRADE MISSION MANDATORY BECAUSE OF TURN LENGTH. But pretty good because metalworking.

The problem is that we don't have metals ourselves yet so might not be that useful as it would be hilariously expensive to import something from that far away. Let alone the amount of weapons our sized civ would require. Better to just start ourselves with Survey Land
.

ctulhuslp · Mar 28, 2017

Sivantic said:
The problem is that we don't have metals ourselves yet so might not be that useful as it would be hilariously expensive to import something from that far away. Let alone the amount of weapons our sized civ would require. Better to just start ourselves with Survey Land
.

Main Trade Mission + Survey + Wall Lower Valley settlement?
Like...without wide voter agreement to push for trade mission every turn until he dies this favor is wasted, and he may die every turn, from violence or even age, with these turns.

Xantalos · Mar 28, 2017

ctulhuslp said:
Main Trade Mission + Survey + Wall Lower Valley settlement?
Like...without wide voter agreement to push for trade mission every turn until he dies this favor is wasted, and he may die every turn, from violence or even age, with these turns.

Hmm. Perhaps Main Trade + Festival + Lower Valley Wall, then Survey the turn after once we know what to look for?

Malevolo · Mar 28, 2017

[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

Copper...copper is stainless...stainless nails and good wood... ships... ships and bows... galleys... war galleys...

We need to expand fishing next so we can make a sea route to the metal workers, and finally we can exchange our dyes, wood and food for gold, silver and copper.

Katsuragi · Mar 28, 2017

I shall be supporting the Canal next turn.

Sivantic · Mar 28, 2017

ctulhuslp said:
Main Trade Mission + Survey + Wall Lower Valley settlement?
Like...without wide voter agreement to push for trade mission every turn until he dies this favor is wasted, and he may die every turn, from violence or even age, with these turns.

That ignores that we are actually experiencing crowding problems and require another settlement as well as the fact that we have Stability -1 right now so require a project to fix that.

So two other projects that need doing right now.

Malevolo said:
[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

Copper...copper is stainless...stainless nails and good wood... ships... ships and bows... galleys... war galleys...

That we could find ourselves with our own Survey Land and much cheaper to get. Also allowing them through our lands gives us more chance to diplomance them and potentially get ALL the things like we did with the Traders early game.

ctulhuslp · Mar 28, 2017

Xantalos said:
Hmm. Perhaps Main Trade + Festival + Lower Valley Wall, then Survey the turn after once we know what to look for?

We already know how copper and gold look, but we need festival too because unrest will fester.
Ugh.

Katsuragi said:
I shall be supporting the Canal next turn.

....and that's why voting for safe passage to the Metalworkers is a wasted favor.

Sivantic said:
That ignores that we are actually experiencing crowding problems and require another settlement as well as the fact that we have Stability -1 right now so require a project to fix that.

So two other projects that need doing right now.

So...no safe passage to Metalworkers agreement because we won't be able to capitalize on that, what with need for Stability and new settlement ASAP.

[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

zamin · Mar 28, 2017

Breaking News today on "zamin over-analyses everything".

Feygurthyn rode in a cart because that was what was expected of powerful warriors among the northern nomads, but if anything went wrong he was probably going to hop out at the first opportunity. He had been chosen for his combination of warrior skill, leadership qualities, and above all else discreetness. The High Chief wanted this meeting to go well in a way that historically had not happened among the nomads, and if necessary for the expedition to be able to fight its way out. The oddity of the request and the mysteriousness of the additional information passed along had a number of people curious and wary at the same time.

As it was, the designated meeting place was occupied as it had been said it would be, with an accumulation of felt and leather tents surrounded by herds and patrolled by hundreds of war carts. On approach the People were asked to make their weapons unready, except for Feygurthyn who was prompted to leave his bow strung, have his blades ready, and to remain within his cart. Apparently as the expedition leader he was to be allowed to present himself to the nomad leader with full panoply. For that, he was quite pleased that it did not take long for the nomad chief to show up to where the People were waiting, although the fact that he had been allowed to keep his equipment was not just a statement but compounded the statement the chief was making.

The man who rolled up in his cart was rich. His war cart was a curious design that used only a single pair of wheels, but they used a strange set of construction whereby they were made out of several carved planks of wood bound together, allowing them to be very large and lift the cart higher up off the ground, giving it better clearance. The construction also seemed to forgo binding with cord and leather in certain areas in favour of extravagant uses of copper, while the man himself was decorated with beads and rings of copper, silver, and gold. Quite visibly slung at his side was an axe, the head gleaming the red-orange of copper instead of the grey or black of stone as one might expect. Despite this frankly obscene display of wealth and power, the man still had an easy and friendly smile.

Still, the People weren't going to pull out the full amount of tributary goods they had brought until later, once some degree of trust had been established. The nomads had already washed away that trail in the past.

"Greetings, members of the Ymrri!" The man said, using the diminutive form of his language's term for the People, which was translated somewhat as 'Southern Devils', but which was probably better translated as 'Dangerous Adversaries from the South', but the term itself was close enough to how the People pronounced the word 'People' to be annoying. Those who had trade dealings with the nomads sort of learned to filter it out, especially when they used the diminutive form, which was a semi-affectionate "Lil' Devils!" sort of term.

Still kind of annoying, but judging from the man's accent he wasn't from the more southern tribes that were in more frequent contact with the People, one way or another, and thus probably only knew that of the two terms available for describing them, the People preferred 'Ymrri'. Feygurthyn responded with, "Hail, High Chief of the Thunder Horse Tribe of the Horse Folk. I am Feygurthyn of the People, here to answer your request for dialogue between our peoples."

- Huh. Judging by all the shiny bling, it looks like the nomads have popped out another Hero Unit after all. At least this one seems reasonable.
- Interesting design on the war cart. Wonder if we can grab a copy for ourselves?
- I'm seeing lots of metal used for both decoration and practical needs. Looks like someone nearby managed to figure out mining and forging
- I liked the information on their language. The fact that they're calling us devils and dangerous shows that they've learned that we aren't pushovers or easy targets

"I am well and glad that you came, Feygurthyn. Please send my regards to your High Chief for mustering this display of prowess on my behalf. You may call me any of Wendtikwos, Blood of Gigan, Scourge of the South, or Bearer of Thunder," the man stated, raising an eyebrow among the People. 'Gigan' was the derogatory version of the ancestral spirits Gygo or Gygoya, who many within the powerful families of the People claimed descent from and the northern nomads cast as a demon figure. From the way Wendtikwos used the term, Feygurthyn suspected that it was a political title adopted to cow his southern enemies, a sort of "Oh yeah, I'm so totally hardcore I'm definitely descended from a demon!", the reverse of how the People who claimed descent from the progenitor spirits did it.

"Well met Wendtikwos, Blood of Gigan, Scourge of the South, Bearer of Thunder. I think that simply Wendtikwos will suit us all, just fine, if you do not mind," Feygurthyn stated.

"Yes, yes, that works just fine for me. Truth be told, now that you are hear, I am quite eager to move forward with business. I had originally planned to have a great contest between you and whatever representatives from the Spirit Talkers came, a test of physical and spiritual prowess, but they basically told me to piss off, so I guess you win by default!" Wendtikwos explains, frowning in frustration and anger at the rudeness of the Spirit Talkers, before he shrugs it off and says happily, "Come, I see that you brought priests, this is most excellent of you!"

Gesturing for some of the old men who had been assigned to this expedition, Feygurthyn hopped off his cart and then followed Wendtikwos into a nearby tent under heavy guard. Going inside, they found it empty except for a wooden platform with an axe on it, illuminated by a quartet of braziers. Drawing closer, Feygurthyn's eyes grew wider as he took in the weapon. The wood of the handle was a deep, charred black wood that had received a heavy polish and had been decorated with bands of copper and eagle feathers, wolf's teeth hanging by a cord from the butt, and that was the least spectacular part of it, for the head of the weapon was a double-fist-sized teardrop of silvery metal set with spectacular rectangular patterns. From the looks of it though, it was not any of the metals known to the People.

"It's made from a star," Wendtikwos breathed in excitement and pride. "I found it when I was a young man, binding it with a branch that had been struck by lightning to make a mace. The spirits have favoured me ever since, chiefs betting their entire tribes against me to have it, and all falling before me. Finally though, I took it far to the west, across great rivers and to the far side of the sea, where men pull copper and silver and gold from the ground, so that I could purchase their expertise. With great effort they reworked it from a simple lump into this deadly blade. Stronger than copper and can hold an edge like stone, it is almost complete."

Feygurthyn and the assembled shamans looked at the manic glee and excitement on the man's face and he said, "Those who worked metal already blessed it, but I knew that to complete this weapon required the input of the most powerful shamans in the world; I just wasn't sure if it was the Spirit Talkers or the Ymrri. I suppose the spirits have given me the answer. So, bless this weapon, imbue it with the power of your spirits, and I promise the Ymrri a favour. A big favour that my sons and sons' sons will feel compelled to hold to, although do be reasonable in your requests."

Feygurthyn immediately went to consult with the shamans. They then asked for some time to go over spiritual matters in private, before returning and with charcoal and leather sketched out an idea. They would scribe into the axe the symbols for 'Thunder', 'Horse', 'Fist/Power' and 'Uncountable Many/Endless', imbuing it with those concepts. Wendtikwos was absolutely delighted with the idea, although he also said that while he would allow careful scribing of the metal, any permanent damage would end poorly for the people. As it was, once they got to the task, the shamans discovered that the starmetal was almost impossible to work with the tools they had, and they went through a ridiculous number of stone, bone, and horn chisels before they managed to very carefully cut the marks into the surface; all done by moon- and starlight to honour the celestial origin of the material, for extra significance/difficulty in crafting.

By the time they were done, the messenger they had sent off by cart to return to the People and get the input of the High Chief had also returned with instructions as to what sort of favour to ask Wendtikwos.

From the top:
- "Blood of Gigan"? Shit, did Gwygoytha's kid actually survive his journey into the north? Even if he didn't it's nice to see that they're still telling stories about her after all these years. She made quite an impression
- Heh. The Spirit Talkers blew off a chance to massively expand their influence. I'm so glad we decided to bring our own shamans for the trip
- A Star Metal sword? Interesting. I think that this is going to become some kind of nomad Holy Weapon in the future
- Aha! There are metal workers to the west and across the sea. WANT
- Yeeeeesssss. This is why we wanted to raise our Mysticism earlier. We're getting a major boon just for sending our shamans over to do their hocus pocus. I'm so glad the Spirit Talkers decided to be jackasses and stay home. If we'd been forced to compete with them we might have had some issues

Meanwhile, the High Chief had let it be known that any person seeking shelter from the depredations of the Dead Priests would be welcomed with open arms, and a place for them to work within the lands of the People would be set aside for them, along with food to tide them over while they got set up. The threatened people in the lowlands took up this offer en masse, much to the irritation of a number of chiefs among the Western Confederacy who were rather upset by the complete disruption of their inter-tribe trade networks and marriages and all the other deals they had. Fortunately, while somewhere between one and two thousand people came all at once, it didn't cause the complete collapse of the Western Confederacy, and the People were just able to bear the burden for the few years before all of the new farms started to produce food, aided by the way the people of the Western Confederacy were sort of used to packing up, moving, and setting up farms elsewhere. Still, that many newcomers produced an incredible amount of friction with the pre-existing populace, if only because the People had so many different rules for the the newcomers to get used to, and behaviours that were acceptable or tolerated before were now punishable by sanction or even half-exile.

On the plus side:
- Big population boom, big economy
- The WC aren't happy, but they're still hanging on for now. And they can't exactly blame us for being nice, can they?
- Luckily we boosted food production last turn. If we hadn't been able to feed everyone there might have been some problems.

On the down side:
- WC aren't happy with us and they've been weakened since a lot of their people migrated to our side of the border
- Internal friction is happening and our stability has dropped once again because the immigrants are still getting used to our culture

Now STATS!

-------------------------------

General
Diplomacy 4
Economy 3
Martial 5

Stability 1 (confident)

Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 5

Cultural
Art 6
Mysticism 5

General
Diplomacy 4
Economy 8
Martial 5

Stability -1 (uncertain)

Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 5

Cultural
Art 6
Mysticism 5

Holy Shit.

Our Economy went up from 3 to 8. Land of Opportunity is paying off for us big time. Our stability's dropped down to -1 again, but I kinda feel that it was worth it to get 5 points of Economy in one turn.

Administration
Memory
Early Writing (Logographic)

Construction
Wood
Masonry
Early City Walls

Energy Production
Muscle Power
Animal Power

Food Production
Fishing
Horse Milling
Mollusc Cultivation
Orchards
Step Farming
Terra Preta

Materials
Stone
Pottery

Science
Ancestral Heroes
Animism

Transportation
Animal Husbandry
Groomed Trails
Solid Wheel Carts

Watercraft
Great Canoes
Early Sailboats

Artistry
Personalized Projects
Specialists

Administrators
Specialist advisors

Entertainers
Amateur group activity
Non-caste semi-specialists

Intellectuals
Elders
Shamans

Leadership
Semi-hereditary specialist

Merchants
Hereditary family

Property
Communal

Warriors
Semi-hereditary specialist
Spiritually trained elites

Armour
Leather
Quilted cloth
Wicker

Cavalry
War Carts

Melee
Ceramic Maces
Light Shields
Spears
Two-Handed Clubs

Ranged
Recurve Bows
Slings
Spear Throwers

No changes here that I can see, though I'm hoping that we can get new War Chariots and metal working techs soon.

Now, CHOICES!

-------------------------------

Favour from the Thunder Horses
[] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
-[] The easiest pass through to the south is the Spirit Talkers, and they did insult you...
[] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[] Have you a piece of the star for us?

So we can either:

a) Use them as mercenaries against the DPs and perhaps the STs
b) Make contact with the Metal Workers and guarantee safe travel for our traders
c) Get a bit of Star Metal for ourselves

Of the three options, I feel that the third is kinda pointless to us now because we don't actually have any metal working currently. The first option gives a boost to our Military and lets us bleed the DPs and maybe the STs for a while. The second option lets us make contact with the Metal Workers, which gives us access to all those lovely trade routes and techs, though it's more of a long term thing.

Reshuffle Land of Opportunity?
[] No (Keeps Honourable Death)
[] Western Confederacy (Gain Pioneering Spirit)
[] Northern Nomads (Probably gain Honour Value)

Ok, this is a bit of an interesting choice. For those who don't remember:

Honourable Death (Spiritual/Honour) (LoO Linked)
Death in service to the People and the spirits is the best death of all, removing the fear of death from the truly honourable.
Pros: Warriors fight harder, losses in battle are less disruptive
Cons: Seeking a good death, and the means to achieve it, becomes desirable

I'm kinda torn here. On the one hand, Honourable Death is useful when we're fighting, since our warriors are willing to fight harder for less pay. On the other, that whole 'personal glory' thing is kinda toxic to our society since we're all hippy communists. It also almost screwed us over since we nearly got a High Chief whose only qualifications were "Me drive cart good".

Grabbing Pioneering Spirit would boost our Economy up even further and get rid of our current stability issue, but at the cost of Centralization which we need in order to conduct war and coordinate big projects. Right now, I don't think that it's worth it.

The thing is, I'm just not sure if we should stick with Honourable Death and try to change it into something more palatable or take a gamble and see if any of the nomad traits would suit us better. I'm just worried that we might get something like "Must fight honorably" or another "glory" trait which would hinder our war efforts.

Edit: the nomad traits will probably involve one of these:

The honouring of given word and deals

Ties of family

Fighting as a means of social advancement

The glory of battle

The importance of the defense of weaker members of your in-group

Thing is, "honoring deals", "family ties" and "protecting the weak" seem like weaksauce versions of some of our own traits (Protective Justice and Harmony), so I'm not too attracted to any of these.

On the other hand, I do not want anything to do with "fighting to get promoted" or "glory in battle". Traits like that are just as bad, if not worse then Honourable Death.

So that's a 3/5 chance of getting an "OK" trait and a 2/5 chance of getting something that might screw us over. No thanks.

For now, my votes will be:

~~[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way~~

[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

The first because I want that metal goddamn it. Having metal armor or weapons would give us a deadly edge against the DP warriors while learning forging or mining techniques could help unlock new projects for us.

As for the trait thing, better the devil you know and all that. Pioneering Spirit isn't worth it now, there's no guarantee that we'd get anything good from the Nomads and I'm still hoping that we can change Honourable Death into something that suits us better.

Edit: Changed vote because I just learned that it'd mean sending the entire nomad tribe south to fight the DPs. I'd originally thought it was only going to be a few raids, but if this option give us an entirely new buffer state to kick in the DPs teeth, I feel that it's actually more valuable then getting trade set up with the Metal Workers.

bluefur87 · Mar 28, 2017

[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
[X] Northern Nomads (Probably gain Honour Value)

Okay, so here's the thing. The people to our south? They will have an absolute nightmare against nomads. Half the reason I wanted that war was to keep these nut cases from building up. Dropping the hyper military competent nomads into their lands? Well, they will do a great deal to destroy the monsters, we can actually afford to eco hard for a couple turns, and we can get our tech through and once the nomads pull back in a couple turns see what the lowlands look like. Keep in mind, we might be sending a hero unit against the lowlanders.

Also, the passage to metal workers is a short window that we are unlikely to be able to hold long enough to make good use out of.

Really, this is about the only thing we can do for me to make peace for letting a military specialist group build up the econ and tech to threaten us. The nomads are far more numerous than us, and will cover the entire south land, and honestly? I'd much rather deal with them than people that only raid and never trade.

Malevolo · Mar 28, 2017

@Academia Nut

Economy Advisor, whats the comparison between the wood used by the nomads and ours?

Sugnez · Mar 28, 2017

[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

Spectrum · Mar 28, 2017

[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

Honourable Death isn't excellent but it's not shit enough that I want to roll the dice on random raiding party honor bullshit.

veekie · Mar 28, 2017

VoidZero said:
Actually, the future high chiefs are screwed over. As the power block multiplied and strengthened. our meritocracy is getting closer to the end of its life. In short, kicking the can down the block.

But our Bureaucracy is growing to match, so their power grows, even as the ways they can abuse it shrinks.

That's how you do sustainable Centralization.

Academia Nut said:
Feygurthyn rode in a cart because that was what was expected of powerful warriors among the northern nomads, but if anything went wrong he was probably going to hop out at the first opportunity. He had been chosen for his combination of warrior skill, leadership qualities, and above all else discreetness.

Excellent diplomat choice here. Hope it goes well!

The man who rolled up in his cart was rich. His war cart was a curious design that used only a single pair of wheels, but they used a strange set of construction whereby they were made out of several carved planks of wood bound together, allowing them to be very large and lift the cart higher up off the ground, giving it better clearance.

Multi-part wheels! That's the next tech up from our solid wheels.

The construction also seemed to forgo binding with cord and leather in certain areas in favour of extravagant uses of copper, while the man himself was decorated with beads and rings of copper, silver, and gold.
Quite visibly slung at his side was an axe, the head gleaming the red-orange of copper instead of the grey or black of stone as one might expect. Despite this frankly obscene display of wealth and power, the man still had an easy and friendly smile.

That's a high diplomacy score from all the bling.

"Greetings, members of the Ymrri!" The man said, using the diminutive form of his language's term for the People, which was translated somewhat as 'Southern Devils', but which was probably better translated as 'Dangerous Adversaries from the South', but the term itself was close enough to how the People pronounced the word 'People' to be annoying. Those who had trade dealings with the nomads sort of learned to filter it out, especially when they used the diminutive form, which was a semi-affectionate "Lil' Devils!" sort of term.

...we have a diminutive!

And it sounds kind of respectable coming from a Martial Honor culture at least.

"I am well and glad that you came, Feygurthyn. Please send my regards to your High Chief for mustering this display of prowess on my behalf. You may call me any of Wendtikwos, Blood of Gigan, Scourge of the South, or Bearer of Thunder," the man stated, raising an eyebrow among the People. 'Gigan' was the derogatory version of the ancestral spirits Gygo or Gygoya, who many within the powerful families of the People claimed descent from and the northern nomads cast as a demon figure. From the way Wendtikwos used the term, Feygurthyn suspected that it was a political title adopted to cow his southern enemies, a sort of "Oh yeah, I'm so totally hardcore I'm definitely descended from a demon!", the reverse of how the People who claimed descent from the progenitor spirits did it.

...that's our lost boy!

"Yes, yes, that works just fine for me. Truth be told, now that you are hear, I am quite eager to move forward with business. I had originally planned to have a great contest between you and whatever representatives from the Spirit Talkers came, a test of physical and spiritual prowess, but they basically told me to piss off, so I guess you win by default!" Wendtikwos explains, frowning in frustration and anger at the rudeness of the Spirit Talkers, before he shrugs it off and says happily, "Come, I see that you brought priests, this is most excellent of you!"

Hah, we win by default because the ST's chose to no show!

Gesturing for some of the old men who had been assigned to this expedition, Feygurthyn hopped off his cart and then followed Wendtikwos into a nearby tent under heavy guard. Going inside, they found it empty except for a wooden platform with an axe on it, illuminated by a quartet of braziers. Drawing closer, Feygurthyn's eyes grew wider as he took in the weapon. The wood of the handle was a deep, charred black wood that had received a heavy polish and had been decorated with bands of copper and eagle feathers, wolf's teeth hanging by a cord from the butt, and that was the least spectacular part of it, for the head of the weapon was a double-fist-sized teardrop of silvery metal set with spectacular rectangular patterns. From the looks of it though, it was not any of the metals known to the People.

"It's made from a star," Wendtikwos breathed in excitement and pride. "I found it when I was a young man, binding it with a branch that had been struck by lightning to make a mace. The spirits have favoured me ever since, chiefs betting their entire tribes against me to have it, and all falling before me. Finally though, I took it far to the west, across great rivers and to the far side of the sea, where men pull copper and silver and gold from the ground, so that I could purchase their expertise. With great effort they reworked it from a simple lump into this deadly blade. Stronger than copper and can hold an edge like stone, it is almost complete."

A meteoric iron axe huh.

Favour from the Thunder Horses
[] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[] We will offer you safe passage through our lands

This gives the Dead Priests something to think about. Throw the proto mongols into the proto-Assyrians and let them mangle each other at no cost to ourselves, but beware of releasing dogs to quell the cats.

It also gives us the best chance to culturally influence the Nomads by passing through our lands, but the greedy may set their sights on us in the future.
If we take this we must build, and preferably Main Walls next turn, or the Nomads will get tempted

-[] The easiest pass through to the south is the Spirit Talkers, and they did insult you...

Fucks the STs. Doing this advantages the DPs.
Why would we do that?

[] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way

Personal advantage to our trade. Best for us to get metal access and metalworking from trade without having to do it the hard way.
This would be difficult to make it last however, I expect the deal to falter in two generations.
If we take this we must take the Trade Mission next turn

[] Have you a piece of the star for us?

Get a sample of iron to know how to identify more of the material later on. Limited value given that we can't work that at all, but the best option if we don't intend to send a trade mission.
Take this if we don't want to change our action plans

[] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

Keep Honorable Death and try to evolve it to something more useful rather than the martial leaning tendency it has at present. Work to death even.

[] Western Confederacy (Gain Pioneering Spirit)

Gamble our Centralization whenever we absorb people, but makes a POWERFUL economic burst option on importing people.

[] Northern Nomads (Probably gain Honour Value)

Remember all the Martial Honor things they have? More dangerous than keeping Honorable Death for avoiding getting stuck into wars.

Personal inclination:

[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

Keep in mind the deal will likely only last 2 generations. 3 at best. These are nomads, they break up fast
Next turn we want to send a trade mission while the deal lasts.

So, options:
[Main] Walls - South Valley
[Secondary] Festival
[Secondary] Trade Mission(Metalworkers)

[Main] Restore Harmony
[Secondary] Walls - South Valley
[Secondary] Trade Mission(Metalworkers)

[Main] Trade Mission(Metalworkers)
[Secondary] Festival
[Secondary] Walls - South Valley

These two lets us take advantage of the Metalworker contact, while securing our assets and restoring Stability. If we take Safe Passage we really should take one of these combos

[Main] Restore Harmony
[Secondary] Walls - South Valley
[Secondary] New Settlement - Coastal

[Main] Walls - South Valley
[Secondary] Festival
[Secondary] New Settlement - Coastal

However, if overcrowding is a problem then we need a new settlement, which means the best option is these...which wastes the favor.

Paths of Civilization

The Devil of Ghosts

Inattentive Idiot

The 1%

Turtle-Speed Writing

The 1%

The Watcher in the Dark

Tell me a secret~